T2W Bot
Staff member
Last edited by a moderator:
Rhody Trader
Senior member
In this article Brett Steenbarger summarizes a few ideas central to brief therapy as it can be applied to traders and trading.
tradesmart
Experienced member
Brilliant - with a very large reported failure rate in trading, we all need to analyse our decision making processes constantly...Great..
mountainman
Newbie
this is an enjoyable article
if you don,t think about the way you behave and it's reasons it's good
but does any body trade on autopilot?
if you don,t think about the way you behave and it's reasons it's good
but does any body trade on autopilot?
fxmarkets
Established member
its a cover up for manipulation by the few with the weight to F*** everyone else over until the monies gone. how could it be any other way..... do we think this is an honest arena we are stepping into knowing human nature and billions of pounds on the line. Read how they operate maybe and position next to them .
Its a game of bluff. deception ... and we are taught values, well its kinda dying out, but its like playing a game with a dishonest person who you know is out to deceive. now if we know they are out to decieve in this field in order to purely extract money then we should maybe examine and research those actions that indeed scream.. hahha youve be f**** over here look........ therefore maybe we must get inside the head of the decievers, or not even that just learn ("see",observe""speculate") to know how they operate, they are humans too? (of course) also being creatures of habbit, are likely to pull the same con, time and time again. Protect it at all costs.
because they rely on the conditioned masses to be trusting of fairness in this game which is also a deception. to maintain their good habbits of being structure conforming citizens coming to the markets and being fleeced, albeit package as potentially the height of sophisticated trade between mortals.
umm therefore we must change our habbits. ditch values of fairness to others when engaging, scrap any notion of time=money in the conventional 40 hour week for 60 years then you die upbringing and join the con. (suspend them maybe whilst trading) . and revert to helping old ladies across the road again at weekends. assuming that remains the " politically correct" thing to do, regardless of whether its the "Human" thing to do. .... lordy.
believe the con, find the con, join the con, be the con.
my names "honest John" but people call me tony.
Its a game of bluff. deception ... and we are taught values, well its kinda dying out, but its like playing a game with a dishonest person who you know is out to deceive. now if we know they are out to decieve in this field in order to purely extract money then we should maybe examine and research those actions that indeed scream.. hahha youve be f**** over here look........ therefore maybe we must get inside the head of the decievers, or not even that just learn ("see",observe""speculate") to know how they operate, they are humans too? (of course) also being creatures of habbit, are likely to pull the same con, time and time again. Protect it at all costs.
because they rely on the conditioned masses to be trusting of fairness in this game which is also a deception. to maintain their good habbits of being structure conforming citizens coming to the markets and being fleeced, albeit package as potentially the height of sophisticated trade between mortals.
umm therefore we must change our habbits. ditch values of fairness to others when engaging, scrap any notion of time=money in the conventional 40 hour week for 60 years then you die upbringing and join the con. (suspend them maybe whilst trading) . and revert to helping old ladies across the road again at weekends. assuming that remains the " politically correct" thing to do, regardless of whether its the "Human" thing to do. .... lordy.
believe the con, find the con, join the con, be the con.
my names "honest John" but people call me tony.
Has anyone got a clue about what he is saying !fxmarkets said:its a cover up for manipulation by the few with the weight to F*** everyone else over until the monies gone. how could it be any other way..... do we think this is an honest arena we are stepping into knowing human nature and billions of pounds on the line. Read how they operate maybe and position next to them .
Its a game of bluff. deception ... and we are taught values, well its kinda dying out, but its like playing a game with a dishonest person who you know is out to deceive. now if we know they are out to decieve in this field in order to purely extract money then we should maybe examine and research those actions that indeed scream.. hahha youve be f**** over here look........ therefore maybe we must get inside the head of the decievers, or not even that just learn ("see",observe""speculate") to know how they operate, they are humans too? (of course) also being creatures of habbit, are likely to pull the same con, time and time again. Protect it at all costs.
because they rely on the conditioned masses to be trusting of fairness in this game which is also a deception. to maintain their good habbits of being structure conforming citizens coming to the markets and being fleeced, albeit package as potentially the height of sophisticated trade between mortals.
umm therefore we must change our habbits. ditch values of fairness to others when engaging, scrap any notion of time=money in the conventional 40 hour week for 60 years then you die upbringing and join the con. (suspend them maybe whilst trading) . and revert to helping old ladies across the road again at weekends. assuming that remains the " politically correct" thing to do, regardless of whether its the "Human" thing to do. .... lordy.
believe the con, find the con, join the con, be the con.
my names "honest John" but people call me tony.
Hello, Kris. I think i know where he is comming from. But, the the bottom line is if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Besides that, the majority of us need not worry about corruption and so on.
Buisiness is business, it's a dog eat dog world and enough is never enough......that's human nature.
Greed can kill you......it can also keep you alive!
Buisiness is business, it's a dog eat dog world and enough is never enough......that's human nature.
Greed can kill you......it can also keep you alive!
fxmarkets
Established member
yeah if you cant stand the heat stay away, but what the psychology seems to be suggesting its because of you parents for example. and no talk ever of the practice or behaviour of what you are going up against, which will dictate price /direction. frequently.
hence position with it.
hence position with it.
Some, or should i say most of the psychology that is written on these boards is too hedonistic, too eutopian.
People try to iron out certain factors that may in fact may be the key to thier success.
It's as if we should all have the same mentality.....this couldn't be further from the truth.
"Do this, do that and you're on a winner....".
"But if you only understood yourself...."
People never really want to understand themselves that much, because in certain terms it's too much to take.
SELF HELP?
Next time you think you see an opportunity on the markets........think about putting the whole account on your assumption.
Now tell me about knowing yourself?
Nobody knows too much about themselves.
People try to iron out certain factors that may in fact may be the key to thier success.
It's as if we should all have the same mentality.....this couldn't be further from the truth.
"Do this, do that and you're on a winner....".
"But if you only understood yourself...."
People never really want to understand themselves that much, because in certain terms it's too much to take.
SELF HELP?
Next time you think you see an opportunity on the markets........think about putting the whole account on your assumption.
Now tell me about knowing yourself?
Nobody knows too much about themselves.
fxmarkets
Established member
hmmm, the thing is that I dont think even the "Trading Psychologist" (who yes may be helpful in helping people develop themselves) are aware of whats going on, on the other side. They seem to be another dressing (and yes I believe that they believe they are doing a good service trying to be helpful) but I dont think they are privy , if they were, to maintain money flow, they would/should be paid to disinform to ensure continual money flow, but at this stage it seems they offer their service blindly delivering this anyhow for the industry .
Marvellous.
So really psychologists should be the richest people on the planet right ? if they wanted to be right?
theres an experiment. A game, can they do it, has it been done, why not? if yes who? well done what was the conclusion of your study/experiment.
Elder bangs on about trader psychology from ohh dealing with right and wrong expectancy etc. long term etc. but nothing on the behaviour of whats going on regarding supply and demand of money flow needed to feed the feeders and the feeders habbits used to catch its prey.
Thats why it seems funny.
Course as you point out rudie you dont need to be concerned with it to make money, but its probabilities going your way over any edge on top, super edge maybe.
Further here, of course we can only ask of ourselves to make the best decision based on the information we know at that time. It is the spirit of what information is known by whom and with regards to the Trading Psychologists is perhaps very limited to them, but they are doing their best too.
Marvellous.
So really psychologists should be the richest people on the planet right ? if they wanted to be right?
theres an experiment. A game, can they do it, has it been done, why not? if yes who? well done what was the conclusion of your study/experiment.
Elder bangs on about trader psychology from ohh dealing with right and wrong expectancy etc. long term etc. but nothing on the behaviour of whats going on regarding supply and demand of money flow needed to feed the feeders and the feeders habbits used to catch its prey.
Thats why it seems funny.
Course as you point out rudie you dont need to be concerned with it to make money, but its probabilities going your way over any edge on top, super edge maybe.
Further here, of course we can only ask of ourselves to make the best decision based on the information we know at that time. It is the spirit of what information is known by whom and with regards to the Trading Psychologists is perhaps very limited to them, but they are doing their best too.
Last edited:
Hello, FX. You don't need to be a 'good' person to make money on the markets.
An individuals perspective about the markets is not about wether they have had good or bad experiences in thier life times......it's about thier perspective about the markets!
This statement is fact!
Psychologists...need people.
But,....psychologists are only people.
Who ever said these mere mortals could ever understand anybody except themselves?
There are 'model' people.....correct!
So,.....ask your psychologist the next big move on the YM or the SPX or the NQ.
I would never treat my life so cheaply as to see somebody who i have to pay to tell me about myself.
We are all mad in our own little ways.
Buy YM on monday!
An individuals perspective about the markets is not about wether they have had good or bad experiences in thier life times......it's about thier perspective about the markets!
This statement is fact!
Psychologists...need people.
But,....psychologists are only people.
Who ever said these mere mortals could ever understand anybody except themselves?
There are 'model' people.....correct!
So,.....ask your psychologist the next big move on the YM or the SPX or the NQ.
I would never treat my life so cheaply as to see somebody who i have to pay to tell me about myself.
We are all mad in our own little ways.
Buy YM on monday!
I appreciate the comments on my article. What I write about in articles such as this and those on my (free) website (www.brettsteenbarger.com) are direct outgrowths of my day to day work with professional traders at a proprietary trading firm. The work I do with traders is during the market day, as they are trading. So I am privvy to seeing the ways in which their psychology affects their trading, but also how their trading affects them psychologically.
For the record, I want to state that the vast majority of emotional problems traders experience are not primarily psychological in origin. They experience fear, frustration, etc. because they are undercapitalized and have not undergone sufficient training (or had sufficient experience) to be able to trade against the professionals that dominate the marketplace. I do think psychology can be helpful to traders who know how to trade, but you would be amazed how many people contact me for help with their "trading psychology" and turn out to not have a clue about how to actually read markets. I suspect I would be stressed also if I risked my money on an activity for which I wasn't prepared.
Brett
For the record, I want to state that the vast majority of emotional problems traders experience are not primarily psychological in origin. They experience fear, frustration, etc. because they are undercapitalized and have not undergone sufficient training (or had sufficient experience) to be able to trade against the professionals that dominate the marketplace. I do think psychology can be helpful to traders who know how to trade, but you would be amazed how many people contact me for help with their "trading psychology" and turn out to not have a clue about how to actually read markets. I suspect I would be stressed also if I risked my money on an activity for which I wasn't prepared.
Brett
dbphoenix
Legendary member
steenbab said:For the record, I want to state that the vast majority of emotional problems traders experience are not primarily psychological in origin. They experience fear, frustration, etc. because they are undercapitalized and have not undergone sufficient training (or had sufficient experience) to be able to trade against the professionals that dominate the marketplace. I do think psychology can be helpful to traders who know how to trade, but you would be amazed how many people contact me for help with their "trading psychology" and turn out to not have a clue about how to actually read markets. I suspect I would be stressed also if I risked my money on an activity for which I wasn't prepared.
Brett
Good one
Fine article, Dr. Thank you.
--Db
One more thing, and then I'll get off my soap box...
Sometimes the best thing you can do for a trader's psychology is show him or her patterns that recur in the market and that can form the basis for viable trade ideas. Modeling ways of thinking about markets is sometimes just what's needed as an antidote to confusion and frustration.
I'm trying to accomplish some of that modeling on my free research blog www.traderfeed.blogspot.com. Recently, for example, I've been looking at trading patterns between stocks and bonds. The blog entries are not meant as trading systems or mechanical trade ideas, but as a starting point in identifying things to look for in gaining a market edge.
Good trading is as helpful for psychology as psychology is helpful for trading--and that's coming from a shrink who trades and works with traders!
Brett
Sometimes the best thing you can do for a trader's psychology is show him or her patterns that recur in the market and that can form the basis for viable trade ideas. Modeling ways of thinking about markets is sometimes just what's needed as an antidote to confusion and frustration.
I'm trying to accomplish some of that modeling on my free research blog www.traderfeed.blogspot.com. Recently, for example, I've been looking at trading patterns between stocks and bonds. The blog entries are not meant as trading systems or mechanical trade ideas, but as a starting point in identifying things to look for in gaining a market edge.
Good trading is as helpful for psychology as psychology is helpful for trading--and that's coming from a shrink who trades and works with traders!
Brett
re
Trading can be straightforward once you stop playing a conditioned game of winning and losing in your head.The main thing is to recognise the game,find out why you are playing it,identify the parts that are playing it and Isolate them from trading..
Once this is achieved which is not an easy task ,then you can trade succesfully ,if you still want to.
PS All the rest is bullsh#t
Trading can be straightforward once you stop playing a conditioned game of winning and losing in your head.The main thing is to recognise the game,find out why you are playing it,identify the parts that are playing it and Isolate them from trading..
Once this is achieved which is not an easy task ,then you can trade succesfully ,if you still want to.
PS All the rest is bullsh#t
Dispassionate
Member
Great article. The key to using NLP techniques successfully is to understand that the mind thinks in pictures and to be *consciously* aware of it.
ThinkForexJB
Junior member
Thought this was a great article. I know it's older but I thought I'd post to bump this up to the top of the forums so some of the newbies to the forum (such as myself) could take a look.
This not only helps in your trading but can be applied to all aspects of life. Thanks Brett!
This not only helps in your trading but can be applied to all aspects of life. Thanks Brett!
Similar threads
