A cry for help from a newbie

[andy301167]

Hi to all you seasoned traders,

I joined the forum about a week ago and have spent night after night trawling through lots of threads trying to get some help. I have seen lots of threads about people who want info on a particular system they are thinking of investing in (alot of them are names I recognise cause I have looked into them too) and most seem to be scams.

Can anyone recommend a system which they have found to work or at least point me in a direction where I can gain useful knowledge? I have played around with sb for about 6 months but only on demo accounts which I freely admit I have busted out on a couple of times. With this in mind I hesitate to take the plunge with my own money until I feel I have gained a better understanding of how to recognise a signal or have something that recognises a signal for me(if it exists).

The current system I am considering is from Mr Spread Betting on Amazon, I know 3 members of the forum were given a free copy of his system to try but I can't find anything to tell me how they got on with it, does anyone know?

Thanks to anyone who replies
Andy the newbie

 

[yacarob1]

I think most people would tell you that you cannot really expect to buy a system and become instantly successful.

Even if the system is a good one you need the trading skills to operate it.

A lot of people on T2W ( me included ) have spent years and years and thousands of hours trying to work out how the whole thing hangs together.

There are so many factors and variables to consider and a lot of trial and error is involved.

Better to keep things simple at all times.

I started like that but gradually evolved to a point where I was using so many indicators that my charts looked like something that NASA might use to guide their spacecraft to a soft landing on Pluto.

I eventually ditched all that shi*te and went back to basics.... and that is where I have found most of my success.

Sorry to be so vague but you do need to put in a lot of work and hours to get where you want to go.

You can buy a few books ( just the recommended really good ones ) but personally I prefer to observe the real thing rather than read about it.

One book you maybe should get though is Murphy's " Technical Analysis of The Financial Markets "

Bit of a Bible really I guess.

If you do buy a system though, make sure it has got a cast-iron ( no strings attached ) money back guarantee if you are not satisfied.

 

[salaka70]

hi
i am in the same boat trying out demo account still doing well have several books and videos can pass on to you might help. how is mrspreadbetting course?
if you looking some videos on technical stuff i have one, LET US KNOW

GREAT TRADING

Hi to all you seasoned traders,

I joined the forum about a week ago and have spent night after night trawling through lots of threads trying to get some help. I have seen lots of threads about people who want info on a particular system they are thinking of investing in (alot of them are names I recognise cause I have looked into them too) and most seem to be scams.

Can anyone recommend a system which they have found to work or at least point me in a direction where I can gain useful knowledge? I have played around with sb for about 6 months but only on demo accounts which I freely admit I have busted out on a couple of times. With this in mind I hesitate to take the plunge with my own money until I feel I have gained a better understanding of how to recognise a signal or have something that recognises a signal for me(if it exists).

The current system I am considering is from Mr Spread Betting on Amazon, I know 3 members of the forum were given a free copy of his system to try but I can't find anything to tell me how they got on with it, does anyone know?

Thanks to anyone who replies
Andy the newbie

 

[yacarob1]

I would say to you guys also that success with a demo account does not automatically translate to success with a real live account.

When you put real money on the line it is a totally different mindset and the whole area of psychological issues comes into play.

Trading live FEELS completely different than trading with a demo account.

 

[shadowninja]

Yes, defo, although if you can't even make money on demo, no point risking real money. Apparently, it is so easy to make money on demo. Whenever I demo trade, the gambler devil on my right shoulder takes over...

 

[yacarob1]

Whenever I demo trade, the gambler devil on my right shoulder takes over...

Yeah, just throw money at it, sod the stop loss, let losses run etc. etc.



I am much the same

 

[abottoml]

Hi Andy

Yep, it certainly takes time to get to a point where you're only mildly profitable, and there really are no shortcuts. You just have to find a slight edge in one small section of the market that works for you. For me, that's options on futures, but it might be spread betting, fx, equities, covered warrants, bonds, commods, uk, us, germany, etc, etc ... But in my opinion, using real money is the only way to make the mistakes count as learning opportunities.

This is worth reading. It is a much posted link, but is re-posted here for posterity's sake:

38 Steps to Becoming a Successful Trader

 

[yacarob1]

Here is an example of how demo trading is totally different from real trading.

On Friday I bought £ 10 per point of Brent Crude on nothing more than a whim on a CS demo account.

No stop loss or limit order for taking profit.

This morning I opened up the demo account and glory be, I was ahead by £ 600, which I took immediately.

3 points arise from this :-

1. There is no way I would ever enter a trade on a mere whim.
2. There is no way I would operate without a stop loss
3. You can bet your bottom dollar that if that had been real trading then I would have lost and been in deep sh1t this morning.

Ditch the demo accounts asap and just use them for a bit of fun now and again.

 

[new_trader]

Yes, defo, although if you can't even make money on demo, no point risking real money. Apparently, it is so easy to make money on demo. Whenever I demo trade, the gambler devil on my right shoulder takes over...

That is correct. The reason being that most people trading (demo or otherwise) are motivated by money rather than by being right.

 

[TheHoneyMonster]

Never cry & never beg. If you borrow, never promise to return it. And if you lend it, never expect to get it back in quite the same condition.

 

[Black Swan]

can I ask why you havn't shifted through the gears after six months to move to live trading? 6 months is a helluva long time, could you not have taken an account with IG and just played around with 10 - 50 pence 'bets' over the past six weeks?
I'm not new to trading but I am new to this forum and it appears to me that there is a regular influx of guys simply asking; "can you trade my account for me and tell me how to make money without any research, pain and experience? Thanks in advance"

TBH I'm surprised how you've managed to hold yourself back, is that telling you something about yourself?

 

[andy301167]

can I ask why you havn't shifted through the gears after six months to move to live trading? 6 months is a helluva long time, could you not have taken an account with IG and just played around with 10 - 50 pence 'bets' over the past six weeks?
I'm not new to trading but I am new to this forum and it appears to me that there is a regular influx of guys simply asking; "can you trade my account for me and tell me how to make money without any research, pain and experience? Thanks in advance"

TBH I'm surprised how you've managed to hold yourself back, is that telling you something about yourself?

Yeh, I'm way too cautious when it comes to parting the my own hard earn cash, that is until I'm satisfied I've gained at least some knowledge and I'm not just jumping in blind. It's not that I'm too cautious to trade I just feel it's not the right thing to do until I'm satisfied with what I know.

I'm not looking for someone to tell what to trade, when to get in, when to get out, what my stop loss should be, it's more a case of what's the best info to read that will give me some education. When you first started did you just jump in and keep throwing money in the pot until you developed a winning system?

Thanks for your response

Happy trading
Andy

 

[andy301167]

Yes, defo, although if you can't even make money on demo, no point risking real money. Apparently, it is so easy to make money on demo. Whenever I demo trade, the gambler devil on my right shoulder takes over...

I must admit that watching the markets on a live account it does seem really different, and yeh I'm guilty of overdoing the demo account and make trades that I would never make with real money, stuff the stop loss, give it another day it'll turn back my way, and I made £1500 on Brent Crude that must mean I've got this sussed.

Cheers
Andy

 

[andy301167]

Yes, defo, although if you can't even make money on demo, no point risking real money. Apparently, it is so easy to make money on demo. Whenever I demo trade, the gambler devil on my right shoulder takes over...

Sorry I also meant to say thanks for the links I'll give them a look.

 

[andy301167]

I think most people would tell you that you cannot really expect to buy a system and become instantly successful.

Even if the system is a good one you need the trading skills to operate it.

A lot of people on T2W ( me included ) have spent years and years and thousands of hours trying to work out how the whole thing hangs together.

There are so many factors and variables to consider and a lot of trial and error is involved.

Better to keep things simple at all times.

I started like that but gradually evolved to a point where I was using so many indicators that my charts looked like something that NASA might use to guide their spacecraft to a soft landing on Pluto.

I eventually ditched all that shi*te and went back to basics.... and that is where I have found most of my success.

Sorry to be so vague but you do need to put in a lot of work and hours to get where you want to go.

You can buy a few books ( just the recommended really good ones ) but personally I prefer to observe the real thing rather than read about it.

One book you maybe should get though is Murphy's " Technical Analysis of The Financial Markets "

Bit of a Bible really I guess.

If you do buy a system though, make sure it has got a cast-iron ( no strings attached ) money back guarantee if you are not satisfied.

Thanks for the replies, I think part of my problem is that I have trawled through loads of stuff on the internet and I've got to the point of info overload, and most of it seems to be one website contradicting another.

I think what I was looking for when I posted this thread was other people to tell me what they found helpful when they started out, like you have with the book you quoted.

Appreciate the help
Thanks
Andy

 

[london88]

I must admit that watching the markets on a live account it does seem really different, and yeh I'm guilty of overdoing the demo account and make trades that I would never make with real money, stuff the stop loss, give it another day it'll turn back my way, and I made £1500 on Brent Crude that must mean I've got this sussed.

Cheers
Andy

They are very different. Look and feel is the same. It is your HEART and EMOTION that changes. You will not see the difference in yourself and never imagine how it feels unless you take that jump.

Roughlly this is how I went about it, where I am now and where I am going.

1) Read the basics on markets, TA and some crap
2) Played a week or two on demos then ditched
3) Open SB account and traded £1 per tick, get a feel for the system and your reactions
4) Burnt out (not life savings but enough to make me take note)

Where I am now
5) Reviewing areas of interest 1-2 narrow down and specialise
6) Trdaing physcology is now a big part of my reading (what makes markets move, motivation, discipline to name a few)
7) Picking up 1 instrument (futures), 1 market (x commoditiy) and reading

Where I am going
8) Taking knowledge of 1-7 to develop strategy
9) Do some backtesting
10) Go live and test some more if successful develop more if not STOP, rethink, evaluate and reapply
11) Repeat 8-10

It is a perennial feedback loop and you have to be in it for the long term. The objective of money is out of the window for me. Despite losing it was the feeling and sense of joy that I enjoyed the most. You can not consider the hardwork elemet as "hardwork" otherwise you are bound to fail.

Remember that what worked for me or others may not work for you. You have to develop your own means to achieve your goals.

 

[andy301167]

Hi Andy

Yep, it certainly takes time to get to a point where you're only mildly profitable, and there really are no shortcuts. You just have to find a slight edge in one small section of the market that works for you. For me, that's options on futures, but it might be spread betting, fx, equities, covered warrants, bonds, commods, uk, us, germany, etc, etc ... But in my opinion, using real money is the only way to make the mistakes count as learning opportunities.

This is worth reading. It is a much posted link, but is re-posted here for posterity's sake:

38 Steps to Becoming a Successful Trader

Thanks for the response and I will check out the link.

Good luck
Andy

 

[andy301167]

They are very different. Look and feel is the same. It is your HEART and EMOTION that changes. You will not see the difference in yourself and never imagine how it feels unless you take that jump.

Roughlly this is how I went about it, where I am now and where I am going.

1) Read the basics on markets, TA and some crap
2) Played a week or two on demos then ditched
3) Open SB account and traded £1 per tick, get a feel for the system and your reactions
4) Burnt out (not life savings but enough to make me take note)

Where I am now
5) Reviewing areas of interest 1-2 narrow down and specialise
6) Trdaing physcology is now a big part of my reading (what makes markets move, motivation, discipline to name a few)
7) Picking up 1 instrument (futures), 1 market (x commoditiy) and reading

Where I am going
8) Taking knowledge of 1-7 to develop strategy
9) Do some backtesting
10) Go live and test some more if successful develop more if not STOP, rethink, evaluate and reapply
11) Repeat 8-10

It is a perennial feedback loop and you have to be in it for the long term. The objective of money is out of the window for me. Despite losing it was the feeling and sense of joy that I enjoyed the most. You can not consider the hardwork elemet as "hardwork" otherwise you are bound to fail.

Remember that what worked for me or others may not work for you. You have to develop your own means to achieve your goals.

Thanks for the reply ,think I'll keep this one for future reference.

It seems to me that your last paragragh sums it all up as some of the reading I have done says to take the emotion out of it, where as the emotion of a trade is what makes you carry on. Good to know it's not just me who gets happy when I win albeit on a demo account.

Thanks again
Andy

 

[alan5616]

Yeh, I'm way too cautious when it comes to parting the my own hard earn cash, that is until I'm satisfied I've gained at least some knowledge and I'm not just jumping in blind. It's not that I'm too cautious to trade I just feel it's not the right thing to do until I'm satisfied with what I know.

I'm not looking for someone to tell what to trade, when to get in, when to get out, what my stop loss should be, it's more a case of what's the best info to read that will give me some education. When you first started did you just jump in and keep throwing money in the pot until you developed a winning system?

Thanks for your response

Happy trading
Andy

Hi Andy,

You've said that you're not seeking help with the what and how to trade. What sort of education are you looking for?

You may be struggling with the thought of taking the plunge. Trading a demo account and trading for real are as different as chalk and cheese. When I traded a demo account, I never once shouted at the monitor "you f***ing b*****ds" when the price moved against me at rapid rate of knots.

Open a live account and trade at the minimum allowed. Whatever you do don't be tempted to keep throwing money in the pot until you develop a winning system. That isn't trading-that's gambling. Risk management is as much a part of successful trading as timing of entries and exits.

 

[andy301167]

Hi Andy,

You've said that you're not seeking help with the what and how to trade. What sort of education are you looking for?

You may be struggling with the thought of taking the plunge. Trading a demo account and trading for real are as different as chalk and cheese. When I traded a demo account, I never once shouted at the monitor "you f***ing b*****ds" when the price moved against me at rapid rate of knots.

Open a live account and trade at the minimum allowed. Whatever you do don't be tempted to keep throwing money in the pot until you develop a winning system. That isn't trading-that's gambling. Risk management is as much a part of successful trading as timing of entries and exits.

Since I posted this thread a few people have told to me I should take the plunge and fund a live account. Although I must confess I have shouted c**t at the monitor a couple of times when trades on my demo account have gone against me.

Regarding education what I'm actually looking for is something that teaches me how to recognise a signal and how I calculate a reasonable stop loss and closing position. I don't want a system where someone tells me everyday what trade to do and in and out points. If I'm gonna risk my money I wanna to do it based on my research not someone elses cause thay won't get pi**ed off when I loose money.

Thanks for your reply
Good luck
Andy