9/11 - The Third Tower

Splitlink said:
There is such a colossal amount of of money involved, that I would have thought that the insurance
companies would be investigating all these arguments.
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Who is more powerful. The military industrial financial complex as a whole, or, a couple of insurance companies?
 
I am being asked to believe one thing or the other. To be honest, I am very sorry for all the innocents killed and injured in all this, but who caused it? I couldn't care less, because it is all being spun out, as long as possible, by the media.

Do you believe that this was done by the military to cause the invasion of Iraq? I don't think that it was necessary. There is always a good excuse to be found start a war. Ask the Iranians. What better reason to start on them other than they might become a nuclear power?
 
Actually ADB, I've changed my mind.

It's healthy for any debate to have a juxta-positioned viewpoint, or, someone playing the devils advocate. As long as this is done fairly, without deliberately misrepresenting what others have said, or misrepresenting the sources that they have used, this should have the effect of improving the quality of the debate.

If we all, had just agreed that 911 was an inside job, this discussion might be over by now.

Your "determined" contribution has at least ensured that the debate has been spun to last a dozen or more pages.

The bright, independent thinking people among us, will be able to follow the 2 sides, decide what is and is not a credible explanation, what is and what is not a credible "debunk" of a key detail, and hopefully recognise what is fact and what is fiction.

If this debate can continue in a proper manner, by posting credible sources and highlighting key details etc. etc. and at the end of the debate, you have still not offered anything that goes any way towards disproving the alternative explanations, then everyone will be in a lot better position to understand both sides of the debate, and no why their chosen side, is what it is.

Therefore, i salute your efforts and contribution ADB, keep it up!
 
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JTrader said:
Its not that difficult to tell a lie, and despite credible evidence and witnesses, convince others that the lie/inaccuracy you are selling - telling is the truth, and that the truth is a lie.
If i see a brown car parked in the distance, and tell my friends "look at that black car."They are likely to say "its a brown car". If i say - "no its not its black". They may disagree for a while. If i continue for long enough to insist its a black car, my friends are liekely tol either -

Lose the will to continue to try and prove the car is brown, and either 1) agree to disagree, or 2) accept that i am right and the car is brown. Either way, they do not win the argument.

Quite a few years ago, i went on holiday with 4 friends, and we all hired mopeds. After a night out drinking, one friend got in a strop on the way back, and kicked his parked moped down, damaging it. I and another friend saw him do it. He denied it, and despite 2 witnesses seeing him do it, the majority of 3, (him plus the 2 who didn't witness it) prevailed. The result was, he lost his deposit, had to pay for repairs, and we all shared the bill for this, as he didn't do it! Well the other 4 did, i refused, as i knew for a fact he did it. He insisted for several years later that he didn't do it. As he was a bit of a head case, at the time we let it go, and didn't make a big deal of it..........The point is, through power of insistence, bullying, the odd bit of intimidation etc. it was fairly easy for him to convince the group of what actually happened - by lying through his as*!
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Disinformation and interogation techniques are based on half lies and half truths to muddy the water. Basics methods to mislead your adversary.

During the Falklands war the French helped us a lot (more than the US) by playing sting operations on the Argies pretending to sell Exorcept missiles whilst they had no intention of doing so. Objectives was to stop the Argies buying from China or other third party who the French would or probably already had sold to.

Hence, we are shown mug shot of terrorists boarding a plane, with some information of them attending training camps coupled with lots of mass lies. You can see the focal leading point but what's below the peak of the pyramid makes telling tall tales sound like reality.

Pentagon and defence industries are worth multi-billions. Dick Chaney with his Halliburton no doubt comes out on top. Bush the oil man with all his backers. Can you imagine what a sweet deal these big old power men behind them all must have come up with. Back slapping over rated big wigs.

War and oil!

Drunk with the cocktail of plots and power. Wasted old farts trying to leave their mark.

Build the most high tech advance fighting machine, paid for by the oil of Iraq and then to teach Syria and Iran a bloody nose next on their hit list. Cripple China and India's growth and demand for energy and commandeer the Central Asias minerals by capturing Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

Absolutely brillian freaking plan. :devilish::devilish::devilish:

WORLD DOMINATION!
 
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Splitlink said:
I am being asked to believe one thing or the other. To be honest, I am very sorry for all the innocents killed and injured in all this, but who caused it? I couldn't care less, because it is all being spun out, as long as possible, by the media.

Do you believe that this was done by the military to cause the invasion of Iraq? I don't think that it was necessary. There is always a good excuse to be found start a war. Ask the Iranians. What better reason to start on them other than they might become a nuclear power?
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Iraq was just the start. They've told us on the news many times, the war will now last 30+ years. They said 6 months, then 3 years initially. I've also seen 100 years mentioned.

Iran seems to be next on the agenda, then who knows where...

Its about bringing about a one world government - a.k. a "New World Order". This process in already in motion and is accelerating all the time. They have the EU, soon they'll have the NAU (USA, Mexico, canada), last year they merged the USA into the EU in the form of a free trade agreement.
All this happens incrementally, not overnight. Soon we'll all have National ID cards, the next step will be RFID chips, either inplanted, or in card form, that enable us to have all our details stored on them, acting as credit cards, cashless society etc. Then the EU, NAU, and asian unions etc. will all be meged. Basically, any "problem states" that do not want to join, will be made to comply.

For such a huge chain of events to take place - there needed to be a major catalyst in the form of a ""major event".............


Rockefeller Predicted "Event" To Trigger War Eleven Months Before 9/11
Nick Rockefeller Revealed Elite Agenda to Aaron Russo During Friendship
Rockefeller Admitted Elite Goal Of Microchipped Population
 
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Atilla - Disinformation and interogation techniques are based on half lies and half truths to muddy the water. Basics methods to mislead your adversary.
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Good point. Confuse people, and make them lose interest, comply, or, accept the official version.
 
dick_dastardly said:
OK, so we can add the BBC to the list of conspirators now can we Atilla ?

dd
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LOL, well hell yeah Dick.

FEMA officially say they have no idea how WTC7 Would collapse, to this day. They "suggested" it collapsed due to fire, but have no evidence. hmmm wait a minute no evidence ? from the official investigators...... LOL man they conspire then ,surely as they appear not to have used sound method in order to form what a "suggestion"

Maybe thats how they avoid being conspirators because after all they only "suggest" officially,without any eveidence that WTC7 collapse was due to fire, in this heavily reinforced steel building. Dont forget this one had reinforced reinforced steel as it contained the emergency bunkers midway etc... LOL but some how this buildings core melted away all at once leading to a total collapse in ,well, seconds....

So that does make the BBC conspiracy theorists does it not? Or are you saying they are investigating methodically and none of the other professors of science have, not event he ones who carry out scientific experiments to support their theories?

Well lets see what experiments the BBC presents with their claims on the show tonight or are they just more conspiracy nut cases into the pot.....

Nice post dick,

Case open ,lets get it sorted.... t2w members can crack this one, i dont doubt it.

Let WTC 7 fall where it may.
 
I worked for a major oil company for many years.

It is surprising how complacent people can get about "accidents waiting to happen".

It's easy to sit back in front of a computer and theorise, but the facts are, in actual practice, that the more an accident does not happen, the more that corners are cut. These corners are constantly being re.adjusted and those sitting in an office have no idea of what the field workers do to cut corners, in this case, turn ships around quickly, for instance.

I have discharged a tanker, loaded with gasoline and encountered a hole in the pipe three feet above the bottom. This is like sucking through a straw that has a hole in it. Here we were, at an oil terminal. To get this repaired efficiently would have cost the company a fortune. What did I do? We got a smoke helmet out, which I put on, and I went down that tank, full of gasoline fumes, found the hole and put a clamp on it, while the Master came down on deck and supervised tne sailors pumping the air down to me.

This is what happens all the time in the field. I believe that laxity caused the lapse of security on the aircraft, the same faults in security help compound the tragedy at the towers and with the police and fire fighting end in New York. The same thing happened with the airforce.

The sad fact is that we did not expect it to happen and those who might have seen it coming were afraid to blow the whistle because they could lose their jobs or, at best, get set aside in the careers process.

You guys writing here, and who work for large companies, know this as well as I do. Those of us who do not, should be able to see it in everyday life. Cars badly parked cause accidents. "It won't happen today and I'd have to be unlucky, wouldn't I?" That is the way people think.The trouble is, others see that handy parking spot and do the same. Yet, afterwards, look what comes out of the woodwork! All sorts of recriminations by those who do similar things in their own walks of life, even those tv reporters, who break established rules to get stories. Stories that cause suicide, like Dr. Kelly.

Remember that most of our laws and regulations are being constantly broken by someone who wants to get home early, wants to get in and out of a shop conveniently--- not by real criminal element. Police authorities cut down on overtime and have to work with reduced workforces. Did anyone read the story last week about the airline pilots who overslept their way past their airport? And the tax data disks left in trains?

Until all this is put right I am unlikely to pay much attention to complot theories. We all know how long I am going to wait, don't we?

I am inclined to wonder, when I read these stories, whose head is going to roll.

I am not, particularly, interested in the unfortunate headless person, who is history,but in the one who wielded the axe, who is left.
 
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dick_dastardly said:
OK, so we can add the BBC to the list of conspirators now can we Atilla ?

dd
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Get off your high horse DD!

Of course not.

But being a responsible independent news broadcaster with no axe to grind how would the headlines...

"9/11 Inside job. Building 7 brought down to cover secret war agenda!"

grab you???


I have questions I want answers to?


Take that ring off your nose and you might be able to smell the BS! ;) (y)
 
mmm, Also what about the vaults beneath the WTC. Repots/rumours of upto $160 Billion worth of gold/precious metals were are buried beneath the rubble.

they did recover $200 million or so in gold, but there are various reports of, who took what, when, eye witness account of gold being removed on the morning of 911 onto a couple of trucks lol... is that bull ?

Would $165 billion be a motivator / bonus / well lets say some one knew before hand, would you get it out, like a witness saw around 7.00 AM that morning ? Anyone find any pics of where the vaults were positioned , including the FEDs gold reserves ?

Ohh they know there was certainly excess of 1 billion in vaults, so where is it $1-160 billion in gold ? who has it now ?

So I think as it ties in, I think the T2w memebrs here can resolve why WTC7 collapsed & Where is all the gold bullion...

Yeah alright as it mentioned by north, lets crack the Pentagon being struck too and the 757 fitting into a hole..
 
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The best place to hide a secret is out in the open....

And the best place to seed a lie is to 'accidentally' screw up in proving the opposite...

If I was going to make a documentary to put to bed the idea of any conspiracy on anything, I’d frame it as a conspiracy documentary, then gently and quietly fold in enough information (disinformation) along the official line to make out I’d shot myself in the foot without realising it and there really was no conspiracy at all. LOL.
 
Splitlink said:
I am inclined to wonder, when I read these stories, whose head is going to roll.

I am not, particularly, interested in the unfortunate headless person, who is history,but in the one who wielded the axe, who is left.
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Oh? What an interesting sentence you've typed.

I'll refer you to who will wield the axe, and who will have their heads chopped off - or these people.
 
faro0485 said:
Oh? What an interesting sentence you've typed.

I'll refer you to who will wield the axe, and who will have their heads chopped off - or these people.
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I'm very sorry, but I'm not on the same wave length. I like to think that there are more practical causes for human behaviour.

1. Fanaticism, to the point of the wicked murder and maiming of innocent people.

2. The passing of the buck, which includes the convenient solution, in many cases, not all, of inventing ingenious complot theories, instead of facing the fact that most of the security precautions were disregarded.

Could anyone answer whether there were any fire drill and evacuation procedures in these buildings. If there were, when was the last one carried out before the attacks?

Split
 
I watched yesterday biased BBC hit piece. I thought it was less biased than the first BBC Conspiracy Files 911 hit piece.

However, despite BBC attempts to debunk, even if i knew NOTHING about 911 truth, i think the program contained enough clues for me to instinctively conclude - hang on, there's something not right here!
I'd then go away and research the events for that day, using a multitude of sources.

I saw several glaring innaccuracies and lies in last nights BBC program. Such as bold sweeping and untrue claims that "conspiracy theorists" a.k.a. "911 truth campaigners" are unable to tie their theory into a bigger plan. Yes they can, justification for a 100 year war, and the introduction of a New World Order, anti-terrorism legislation such as Patriot Act 1 & 2 etc.

In any case, these guys will do a much better job than me in summarising the inaccuracies of last nights program -

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com Glaring and damning errors already apparent in new BBC WTC 7 hit piece

Glaring and damning errors already apparent in new BBC WTC 7 hit piece


Sunday, July 6, 2008

I just read the article Evolution of a Conspiracy Theory written by the producer of the new wtc hitpiece Mike Rudin. BBC NEWS | Programmes | Conspiracy Files | Q&A: The collapse of Tower 7

It is full of errors, non-sequiturs and false claims. A couple struck me as so blatant I feel embarrassed to be British.

1. He claims that most experts disagree with the controlled demolition hypothesis:

“But most controlled experts disagree.

Mark Loizeaux who runs one of the world’s leading demolition companies, Controlled Demolition Incorporated, and who holds the world record for bringing down the largest steel structure, the J L Hudson building in Detroit, says it is simply not possible to bring down a building like Tower 7 which was fully occupied and without anybody seeing or hearing something.”

This is unbelievable. The “expert” that Rudin digs up is none other than the man who was called in to “clear up” after the demolition. Is this what investigative journalism has come to? On what planet does someone investigating a crime scene ask the person who destroyed all the evidence to testify as an objective third party expert? Its just laughable. In no place in the article does he mention Loizeaux’s connection to 911. Even for Rudin, this is pretty extreme.

2. The part about the BBC tape of Jane Standley reporting the collapse before it happened. His attempt at an explanation is to say that the BBC and CNN just made an error. Earlier in the article he admits that this is the first steel structured building ever to collapse as a result of fire. How the hell could a mistake predict that? If it was a mistake, I really want to get a hold of that person and get them to repeatedly make mistakes all over my lottery numbers. Maybe I should get the BBC to come with me to the racetrack and help me out with some of their special magical errors. Take a look at some of the pictures of the other WTC buildings. I cant remember which ones but a couple of them are just completely burnt out wrecks, yet they did not collapse. If they were burning more vigorously and this statement was a genuine mistake, surely they would have predicted one of those to fall. Its just one impossibility on top of another impossibility.

Before the BBC started their hitpieces I was not fully convinced that 7 was brought down by explosives (although I was convinced about many other aspects of 911 truth). However, seeing how manipulative and anti-reason these “documentaries” are, they have pushed me over the edge. I think that we should all use these documentaries to produce the exact opposite effect to which they are designed. If it is made so obvious how deliberately disingenuous they are, then more people will wake up. Just how many Ron Paul supporters woke up when they saw how he was treated by the MSM. The reaction documentary to the previous BBC hitpiece made by David Shayler was truly excellent and is required viewing. (Shame he subsequently had a very public spiritual opening and claimed to be every major figure from history).
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COMMENTS
...
suraci
July 7,2008 I never watched this filth, no reason to, I know what they were going to do and how they would do it: start by asking questions with lots of spooky music, and then about half way through start to supply the bull**** answers, rounding up with a nice little dig at the truth movement. Throw in a nutter or two to discredit the whole truth movement, and job done, the sheeple suppressed for a few more years until the next big event comes along which makes 911 look trivial, which it will, only a matter of time.
We in the UK need someone with money and legal knowledge to challenge the BBC license fee and win, so that we can all then tell them to stick their propaganda fee up their ass. We should be able to choose who we pay to lie to us, not be forced.
NO MORE BBC LICENSE FEE
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Lets do Quincy proud..

Splitlink said:
I'm very sorry, but I'm not on the same wave length. I like to think that there are more practical causes for human behaviour.

1. Fanaticism, to the point of the wicked murder and maiming of innocent people.

2. The passing of the buck, which includes the convenient solution, in many cases, not all, of inventing ingenious complot theories, instead of facing the fact that most of the security precautions were disregarded.

Could anyone answer whether there were any fire drill and evacuation procedures in these buildings. If there were, when was the last one carried out before the attacks?

Split
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I did read that for some reason the exit doors to the roofs were locked. When you think about it a few people in those 30 odd floors above where the 767 planes went in ,coulda got out. Also there was that military chopper buzzing about.


other points.

We do see wing damage slicing through,steel supports, leaving a cartoon shape of the planes outline in the towers. Pentagon- The 124 ft wings & 6 tonne witney& pratt enginges (on each wing), tail section etc folded back neatly and slipped through a hole , some reports say ,initially upto 20 foot wide.

Dont forget this 757 was hitting the pentagon at an angle. So wouldnt momentum cause the left wing to break off forward or someting ?

Pentagon-

2 impacts? Witnesses inside the pentagon specifically testisfy that at 9.31 (and a bit) a blast happend. intense cordite odour etc, clocks blasted off the walls stopped at 9.31.

This would also account for the magic 757 500 mph 270 degree, 5 g turn being carried out by rookie light aircraft pilots!

Apparently that was an F16 doing a fly by appx 9.37 to inspect the damage. Yes damage 7 minutes earlier before the alleged 757 apparently flies intothe pentagon at 9.38.

So whatt happend at 9.31 and then what happend at 9.38 ?


Twin towers.

Plane engines- there are some photo's of an engine that ended up 3 blocks from the towers after impact. apparently some experts who know engines , state and have informed the authorities that the engines are from 737 aircraft- not 757 ?

Some pics lifted from another site.....


This display shows an intact CFM56 engine

wtc5.jpg



This early photo shows the engine still smoking
wtc6.jpg


The best 9/11 video produced by the Naudet brothers had this view of the engine
wtc7.jpg


This photo shows the complete engine shaft
wtc8.jpg


Size and similar parts from a intact engine are used to identify a damaged engine. The hub end in the above photo matches the hub end sticking out of the street engine
wtc9.jpg


Strange indeed how the FBI gathered so quickly after 9/11 sky events
wtc10.jpg


wtc11.jpg


These photos show different perspectives of the engine
wtc12.jpg


wtc13.jpg


Clearly the engine survived the numerous demolitions that brought down a flock of buildings on 9/11

wtc16.jpg


Since the engine landed 3 blocks away from Ground Zero the KGBFBI can't say the engine was vaporized. Where is it today? Ditto for the Pentagon JT8D engine that was identified that was NOT from Flight 77??
 
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Crap Buddist -
Since the engine landed 3 blocks away from Ground Zero the KGBFBI can't say the engine was vaporized. Where is it today? Ditto for the Pentagon JT8D engine that was identified that was NOT from Flight 77??
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That engine looks as good as new! or a good second hand condition. I bet it still works in the condition its in in the photos
 
JTrader said:
That engine looks as good as new! or a good second hand condition. I bet it still works in the condition its in in the photos
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lol jt, it kinda looks to me like its flown into a building........ but apparently it is a cfm56, like the shiny new one, at top . and those aint found on 757 aircraft.
 
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