Trader Dante's fame goes Global

[trader_dante]

In case your memory needs refreshing:

On February 12 you wrote:



What happened next was the market went to 7700 and 7660 before rallying to 7943.

The next day (last Friday) price went as high as 7965 and after it started falling again you wrote:



Since you sold more at a higher price then your initial entry, and the price of the DOW at the time of your "adding" was higher than your average entry of 7879, that is called averaging down aka "adding to losers".



I think the above posts clearly illustrate otherwise.
Perhaps you're going to tell me it was all just a joke, like you did last time?

Aha, mr FW, but here is the problem with internet bulletin boards...I never said I held my whole position...did I?

What if I was, for example, to have cut enough of my initial entry on Fridays rally that I could add higher up (averaging down) and yet still not have really been averaging down in risk taken on the trade, when you consider the realised P&L...

It's so hard to give the full story...

But mate, I really do not make a habit of lying on bulletin boards.

I think that we are just talking cross purposes.

Averaging to me is selling at 7900. Market goes to 8000 and you sell more as you need to improve your position and not get screwed.

But it is not averaging to me if you are trading around a core position. E.g Short 7900...sell 1/3 more at 7700....close the intial position on a rally to 7750. Sell again at 7910...as although yes you are selling higher than your initial entry you are still UP on the trade in terms of amounts added at the prices added at.

I often get more experienced, bigger traders, asking me why I don't average when they do...

It's just not something I do.

But I do treat a POSITION e.g. Short Dow as one single P&L outcome until I am no longer net short at all.

That means I can afford to average down, if I am already up....

Apologies for any confusion.

But perhaps a detailed analysis can be done when I am out of it all for those that might nit pick.

 

[firewalker99]

Aha, mr FW, but here is the problem with internet bulletin boards...I never said I held my whole position...did I?

And I never said I shorted at 13200 and have still ten cars open, did I?

It's so hard to give the full story...

You mentioned entries, and you mentioned adding to your position (which was at a higher price then your entry). I can't guess everything that happened in between...

What if I was, for example, to have cut enough of my initial entry on Fridays rally that I could add higher up (averaging down) and yet still not have really been averaging down in risk taken on the trade, when you consider the realised P&L...

Given that you scoffed at my comments about the short-covering rally, I find it just a little odd that you tell me you did actually cut your position, when - at the time of the rally - you quote "couldn't care less about 200 points".

But perhaps a detailed analysis can be done when I am out of it all for those that might nit pick.

It's not my intention to nit pick, but I doubt hindsight analysis is what we need...

In any case, I'm glad you clearly stated you don't average down. At least we can agree on that.

 

[firewalker99]

My theory is contrary to the popular belief that the more a support gets hit the stronger it is. I think the more it gets hit, the weaker it becomes.

I'm not sure it is "popular belief"... only thing that can be said with a degree of certainty is the more a level gets hit, the more traders will be looking at the same thing.

Suppose instead of support we're talking about resistance. Would you say that the more a R level gets hit, the stronger it gets or the weaker it becomes?

In the end it's not the number of times a support or resistance level get hits that counts, what matters is how it gets hit, what kind of price action preceded the reaction, what state the market is in, etc. In other words, context...

 

[trader_dante]

I'm not sure it is "popular belief"... only thing that can be said with a degree of certainty is the more a level gets hit, the more traders will be looking at the same thing.

Suppose instead of support we're talking about resistance. Would you say that the more a R level gets hit, the stronger it gets or the weaker it becomes?

In the end it's not the number of times a support or resistance level get hits that counts, what matters is how it gets hit, what kind of price action preceded the reaction, what state the market is in, etc. In other words, context...

Yes I believe that the more a R gets hit the weaker it becomes...in general...but totally agree with you it's all about the context. One must take into account the momentum of the move before the level gets hit, the general market tone, the volume as the level is hit, the degree of bounce (if any) compared to previous reactions etc etc

Lots of things to consider. But as a very general concept I think along the lines:

If a number like 100 gets hit time and time again from above...then traders might like to push it through to see what's below...you know...let's just take a peek at what interest there might be down here...

Going back to that bloody Dow lol...that 7800 level is getting hit constantly...on Thursday it was the first time we properly had a go at taking it out..and it got rejected...then very late Friday night it was like...let's just take another peek...I guess as traders we are always looking for clues from reading the price.

Good and safe trading.

 

[Claudia123]

Dont fall out guys you both make great posts!! Price action is crucial as are s/r but also depends on TF you trading surely ??.

 

[trader_dante]

Dont fall out guys you both make great posts!! Price action is crucial as are s/r but also depends on TF you trading surely ??.

I would never have bad feeling towards FW. He was very supportive to me back when I started "Making Money Trading" and I've enjoyed talking to him and learning from him. I have a lot of respect for the guy. As far as I am concerned it's all just banter - I'm pretty competitive and like to argue my case and try and have the last word sometimes...we can't all be perfect lol. I just hope no one thinks I'm too much of an ar*ehole lol

 

[firewalker99]

I would never have bad feeling towards FW. He was very supportive to me back when I started "Making Money Trading" and I've enjoyed talking to him and learning from him. I have a lot of respect for the guy. As far as I am concerned it's all just banter - I'm pretty competitive and like to argue my case and try and have the last word sometimes...we can't all be perfect lol. I just hope no one thinks I'm too much of an ar*ehole lol

Apologies if I got a bit carried away. T2W doesn't bring out the best in me...

Besides:

 

[klastica]

I'm on page 65 of the making money thread now. It's very good.
In the earlier pages you (trader_dante) mention quite a few books that had influenced you up to that point. Have you read any good books since, that you can reconmend that have improved/refined your trading strategy?
Have you used any other trade improvement mediums such as systems/courses/videos etc?

Mike

 

[klastica]

Apologies if I got a bit carried away. T2W doesn't bring out the best in me...

Besides:

That's mean btw firewalker my friends cousin is a retard

 

[porph]

That's mean btw firewalker my friends cousin is a retard

I doubt they'll be looking on here anytime soon then.

 

[WillemDrees]

I'm a full time professional futures trader now. I ran my account up using the method I taught on that thread and used the statements to get my dream job at a prop firm. I did that because the financial backing made making money easier - that is to say I didn't need to make money to live off, off of my own money.

Seen it used around here a lot, but wtf is a prop firm exactly?
And why would that be your dream job, unless you're a trading junkie and not in it for the money

 

[PitBull]

Doh! If you knew anything about trading you would know that it means proprietary. They are arcades full of traders where you are self-funded or financially backed, which Dante is, so he has access to more funds to trade very profitably and the firm take all the risk. Look under the traderpedia for the arcade list for more info, but you're probably too lazy.

 

[WillemDrees]

Doh! If you knew anything about trading you would know that it means proprietary. They are arcades full of traders where you are self-funded or financially backed, which Dante is, so he has access to more funds to trade very profitably and the firm take all the risk. Look under the traderpedia for the arcade list for more info, but you're probably too lazy.

Duh. Not too lazy and traderpedia's my best friend....but still know f.a. about trading*. Thanx.

EDIT: *even though i'm at page 40 of TD's and understand it somewhat.

 

[chilltrader]

I would never have bad feeling towards FW. He was very supportive to me back when I started "Making Money Trading" and I've enjoyed talking to him and learning from him. I have a lot of respect for the guy. As far as I am concerned it's all just banter - I'm pretty competitive and like to argue my case and try and have the last word sometimes...we can't all be perfect lol. I just hope no one thinks I'm too much of an ar*ehole lol

No.. not too much... just a bit :cheesy:

Its important for a trader to be a bit though

 

[elitejets]

I continually try to get 100% of my account in a trade but making sure that there is zero risk. This is very hard but is really the holy grail of trading.

A light bulb just came on for me ...

 

[Skill Leverage]

TD's 'making money trading' thread sure is lengthy but there is some crackerjack stuff in there. I'm getting through it before I join his place of work next week, and I look forward to meeting him and the other guys at the firm who have taught me a fair thing or two over the past 6 months.

SL

 

[stevesilver]

skill leverage you must remember that trader dante does not roam the floor like us other traders he has his own room full of computers and screens he is an enigma people have to book a time with him well in advance if you want i can get you a slot april the 8th at 4.00pm... also around here we refer to him as 'legend' or 'sir'.. or occasionally s$%t 'i think i just did my ****'

 

[Skill Leverage]

 

[jaet1989]

I woke up this morning thinking of you, don't worry, i didn't have a hard on.