The end of the EU

Mr. Crabs said:
It's about time us Americans and English teamed up with the Swiss to take the Euro down a notch, it's been pumped up to such an overvalued and vulnerable position. There's hardly any point for it anyway, Europe is not like America, a 1 size fits all currency like the Euro can never maintain the position the dollar holds with its' ultimate force.
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I don't think that countries as heavily in debt as the US and UK are able to teach Europe much more than it already knows about finance. Debt started as a means to enable the US to live off the backs of everyone else. The rest of the West quickly learned the lesson that was being taught. China, along with Asia, is the future stick wielder.They are the ones with all the US dollars, not the US, it seems to me. God knows how they are going to get it back but they are the creditors, not the West.You mention the Swiss! You are not in the same boat. You only have to mention teaming up with the Swiss with your reputation and you would frighten them to death.
 
The Swiss are much too sensible to get involved in Europe's wars and politics.
They say the Swiss banks are stuffed with Nazi gold etc.

1. scrap at least 1 Eu Parliament if not both.
2. take back our fishing
3. tell the court of Human Rights etc. where to stick themselves.

and that's just for starters.

roll on the referendum. The EU system is total garbage. Sooner dumped the better.
 
Whoever killed him must have had influence to have stuck him under all that municipal concrete. Could come out of The Godfather! :D
 
Splitlink said:
I don't think that countries as heavily in debt as the US and UK are able to teach Europe much more than it already knows about finance. Debt started as a means to enable the US to live off the backs of everyone else. The rest of the West quickly learned the lesson that was being taught. China, along with Asia, is the future stick wielder.They are the ones with all the US dollars, not the US, it seems to me. God knows how they are going to get it back but they are the creditors, not the West.You mention the Swiss! You are not in the same boat. You only have to mention teaming up with the Swiss with your reputation and you would frighten them to death.
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I don't appreciate the baiting but I'll bite back because I'm oh so polite :p. America owns it's own debt. The Federal Reserve is the ultimate debt instrument and this is why the USD has such an advantage over the Euro. The amount of debt we currently hold is not a major factor if you consider our debt / GDP ratio is still hovering around 1. If foreign debt holders were to sell their debt America would pick up the slack, do you really think the profits from all our endeavors just disappeared? I don't suspect China would liquidate their debt holdings; it's incredibly valuable leverage.

But as for going on about the Franc, Pound and USD it is purely in the sense of capitalizing on the trend. I'm not predicting the Swiss and English people team up with the Americans to completely annihilate and boycott the Euro. That would be ridiculous.
 
Mr. Crabs said:
I don't appreciate the baiting but I'll bite back because I'm oh so polite :p. America owns it's own debt. The Federal Reserve is the ultimate debt instrument and this is why the USD has such an advantage over the Euro. The amount of debt we currently hold is not a major factor if you consider our debt / GDP ratio is still hovering around 1. If foreign debt holders were to sell their debt America would pick up the slack, do you really think the profits from all our endeavors just disappeared? I don't suspect China would liquidate their debt holdings; it's incredibly valuable leverage.

But as for going on about the Franc, Pound and USD it is purely in the sense of capitalizing on the trend. I'm not predicting the Swiss and English people team up with the Americans to completely annihilate and boycott the Euro. That would be ridiculous.
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It seems to me that this debt thing depends on the point of view of the beholder. American politicians keep banging on about it being essential to reduce debt, at all cost, in much the same way as European politicians do.

As I see it, we all have been living on credit for decades and this has devalued our currencies to the detriment of all of us. When I was in Baltimore, in 1951, the standard wage was $1 per hour but, although the hourly rate has been rising steadily, the price of Saudi Arabian crude has been valued in cents/barril until comparatively recently. This is why the American public has been driving around in gas guzzlers for so many years. Those days are over, though, for all of us, because the Asiatic countries want to drive cars as much as we do.

I believe that the EU has a future but it is not going to be a five minute job. I do not think that the UK's future will be bright if she leaves Europe. This is just a personal opinion, of course, but I would like to know what is going through the minds of American and Asian industrialists who manufacture in the UK so as to have a market on the Continent.

There is so much to say, isn't there? We could on and on but my main theme has been that the UK should have their referendum and make their minds up. The Euro and EU will sink or swim on its own merits.
 
The Europeans at the top don't seem to realize that they need a good system. They seem content with such an incompetent system that it is doomed to failure if it is not re-vamped soon.
Nobody seems to know who is doing what at the top. What the parliament does seems unclear. Are they told what to do by the unelected commissioners ? Where do the heads of government fit ? Any crisis and we see Merkel and co. strutting their stuff. Can't talk to each other mainly but who knows they may declare there is a sort of franglais everybody should speak ? Should boiled eggs be eaten bigside up ? I expect the hundreds of overpaid nitwits will have a tedious debate about such things taking days to arrive at a muddy compromise.

Looks from the outside like the usual lot with both feet in the feeding trough. Money flows around and around and whoops disappears down the cracks. But never our way. Do I feel confident of success with such diverse leadership ? No not really. More like too many cooks with oversized ego s too.
 
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Pat494 said:
The Europeans at the top don't seem to realize that they need a good system. They seem content with such an incompetent system that it is doomed to failure if it is not re-vamped soon.
Nobody seems to know who is doing what at the top. What the parliament does seems unclear. Are they told what to do by the unelected commissioners ? Where do the heads of government fit ? Any crisis and we see Merkel and co. strutting their stuff. Can't talk to each other mainly but who knows they may declare there is a sort of franglais everybody should speak ? Should boiled eggs be eaten bigside up ? I expect the hundreds of overpaid nitwits will have a tedious debate about such things taking days to arrive at a muddy compromise.

Looks from the outside like the usual lot with both feet in the feeding trough. Money flows around and around and whoops disappears down the cracks. But never our way.
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Pat you are off-grid right?

So why are you so worried about the system? If it's not them it's our politicians with the duck ponds and their kids earning £45K for writing up their essays as research. Same ol stuff circulated like composting manure. Circle of life n all that.

I can't imagine Europe without the European community.

Can anyone here imagine Europe as anything else? Unthinkable???
 
Splitlink said:
As I see it, we all have been living on credit for decades and this has devalued our currencies to the detriment of all of us.
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That is completely incorrect. The average citizen doesn’t devalue currency in any way whatsoever because they don’t have the authority to create money. Any debt incurred must be repaid honestly. Only Governments (Via their Central Banks) can discharge a debt dishonestly through inflation.
 
Mr. Crabs said:
I don't appreciate the baiting but I'll bite back because I'm oh so polite :p. America owns it's own debt. The Federal Reserve is the ultimate debt instrument and this is why the USD has such an advantage over the Euro. The amount of debt we currently hold is not a major factor if you consider our debt / GDP ratio is still hovering around 1. If foreign debt holders were to sell their debt America would pick up the slack, do you really think the profits from all our endeavors just disappeared? I don't suspect China would liquidate their debt holdings; it's incredibly valuable leverage.

But as for going on about the Franc, Pound and USD it is purely in the sense of capitalizing on the trend. I'm not predicting the Swiss and English people team up with the Americans to completely annihilate and boycott the Euro. That would be ridiculous.
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You must either be a modern economist or a politician...frightening...
 
Mr. Crabs said:
I'm just a realist.
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"America owns it's own debt. The Federal Reserve is the ultimate debt instrument and this is why the USD has such an advantage over the Euro."

"If foreign debt holders were to sell their debt America would pick up the slack"

Saying these things make you a realist? I'd say it makes you a fantasist. But don't worry, you are in good company along with Ben Bernanke, President Obama and Timothy Geithner.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain exactly how the Federal Reserve comes up with the money to buy the debt issued by the Treasury?

Then perhaps explain why the $US has been having a circa $60-80 BILLION/Month trade deficit, FOR YEARS.

Then perhaps explain how the US Government can spend roughly $US3 TRILLION...that is Trillion with a 'T' per year when it only earns around $US2.4 TRILLION in tax revenues.

Then, explain how the US Government would service its debt of +$US16 TRILLION if interest rates were to rise.

Explain how it would do all of this without having a negative effect on the value of the $US dollar. Then, finally, provide an example in history (Go back as far as you like) where a country in the same situation has managed to do it successfully for a length of time.

Thanks.
 
new_trader said:
Saying these things make you a realist? I'd say it makes you a fantasist. But don't worry, you are in good company along with Ben Bernanke, President Obama and Timothy Geithner.
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I think you'd be a fantasist to be calling Ben Bernanke and President Obama fantasists. :p
 
new_trader said:
Really?

Let's see.
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Our debt is currently just as manageable as it was a decade ago, I understand the desire to reduce the deficit and our interest rates but don't you realize the expansion of our economy this century was due in large part to our debt. I would rather sustain our GDP debt levels at 1 and keep our economy growing than sacrifice our economic growth to alleviate our deficit.

America is a ship that isn't sinking anytime soon. You'd be fantasizing to think otherwise. You may have got fooled simply by the fact that our debt deals in such massive numbers.

Why all the animosity towards Obama?
 
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Atilla said:
In truth, the gold standard is already a barbarous relic.
Monetary Reform (1924), p. 172

By John Maynard Keynes

John Maynard Keynes - Wikiquote

In the long run we are all dead.

Enjoy...
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Truly, some people are so stuck in the simplicities of the past that they overlook the fact that the gold standard would make markets more tumultuous and less efficient. Fiat currencies are here to stay, and the dollar will always be top dog in international commerce so get used to it.
 
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