The end of the EU

[Pat494]

A bit hard to judge whether we will be worse off out or in ?

 

[Splitlink]

Pat, this is the whole problem with UK and EU and has been for years.

Better to have a referendum and be done with it. 5 years is far too many. It should be 2 maximum.

 

[0007]

Pat, this is the whole problem with UK and EU and has been for years.

Better to have a referendum and be done with it. 5 years is far too many. It should be 2 maximum.

Agree. But slithery Dave wants you to vote him in for another 5 years before he'll give you a choice. "Cast-iron promise" - ring any bells? ...... my ar$e !

 

[Atilla]

Agree. But slithery Dave wants you to vote him in for another 5 years before he'll give you a choice. "Cast-iron promise" - ring any bells? ...... my ar$e !

Self interest before country.

Hi Dave,

I am a manufacturer and wondering where I should build my next assembly plant to take advantage of selling to the European market.

Oh I forgot to mention I plan to invest $2bn anda hire 500 new staff to operate the new plant.

Can you help me?

Many thanks,
Mr Manufacturer.

 

[Splitlink]

Agree. But slithery Dave wants you to vote him in for another 5 years before he'll give you a choice. "Cast-iron promise" - ring any bells? ...... my ar$e !

-He is so subtle! Who would have guessed?

I can see how the "in-out" question is going to be the main thrust of his election manifesto. Milliband is going to have to address that. He will have to offer a referendum, too, and I cannot see how he can avoid it, if he wants to win. He faces a heavy yes vote from the public and Labour does not want to leave the Union, either.

This is what happened to Artur Mas in Cataluña. I don't think that he wanted more than to be able to threaten Madrid with independence. That is why he called an election two years before he had to----to gain more seats. Instead, he lost ten as many voters distrusted him and left his party for the smaller ones, forcing him into a coalition with ERC, which only wants an "independence" referendum as a condition.

So, now, Cataluña has a highly fragmented Parlament, consisting of 6-7 parties whereas, before, CiU was the majority.

Keep an eye on the Cataluña scenarion. There is a similarity with the UK. The UK is on the edge of Europe--Cataluña is on the edge of Spain. Both want out and both are having referendums. Madrid says that Cataluña's referendum would be illegal, constitutionwise. I don't know what they would do to stop it. Send tanks in?

The same as Brits are fed up with Brussels the Catalans are fed up with Madrid.

All good stuff for debate!

 

[Pat494]

I think most people in and out of EU are mostly concerned with is the cost of a group that is so badly put togethor, it has no successes possible, either now or in the future.
Not many want to put up with a system that is like a Trabant car with only 3 wheels and a multitude of incompetent overpaid drivers. They must offer a workable competent system to the voters that will allow economic success or it will fail eventually. Once the 20 ish get their act togethor they will fleece the richer 7 ish. All they are interested in is the handouts.

 

[0007]

The problem with the EU is that it has metamorphosed from a loose trading organisation into a left wing political project -- and being good socialists means you have to settle for the lot. It's the same old socialist recipe: we know what is good for you, give us all your money and we'll let you have some pocket money back -- if you behave yourself.

What the UK needs is a trading organisation with the European countries but forget the politics -- but that won't happen. The UK will stumble on as it always has done since 1945 and without some decent political leadership nothing will change; the saddest thing of all is that there are no worthwhile politicians on the horizon, but then Thatcher wasn't obvious before she got in power -- it needed the political foresight of someone like Airey Neave to recognise the potential. Where are the Airey Neaves of today -- they didn't do very well with Dave did they?

 

[malaguti]

-- it needed the political foresight of someone like Airey Neave to recognise the potential. Where are the Airey Neaves of today

30 years dead mate..any chump can get into politics these days. One idiot will go, and then they elect a successor of lesser idiots who wasnt leader at the time for very good reasons..but they have nobody better. By process of elimination my niece if she joined a party, will one day become prime minister.

 

[Pat494]

The problem with the EU is that it has metamorphosed from a loose trading organisation into a left wing political project -- and being good socialists means you have to settle for the lot. It's the same old socialist recipe: we know what is good for you, give us all your money and we'll let you have some pocket money back -- if you behave yourself.

What the UK needs is a trading organisation with the European countries but forget the politics -- but that won't happen. The UK will stumble on as it always has done since 1945 and without some decent political leadership nothing will change; the saddest thing of all is that there are no worthwhile politicians on the horizon, but then Thatcher wasn't obvious before she got in power -- it needed the political foresight of someone like Airey Neave to recognise the potential. Where are the Airey Neaves of today -- they didn't do very well with Dave did they?

Agree.
The path up the slippery pole to top positions as always doesn't take much of the abilities to run a country, much the same for business. The top positions are largely occupied by people good at back stabbing and infighting. I wouldn't trust the top politicians to run a corner grocery store. Unfortunately we are likely to be stuck with them for a long time to come. Maybe a selection system could be devised to make sure those with the right stuff are elected.

I was interested to see that Richard Branson's first effort at business was to have everyone on the same wage. He took over by getting rid of the rest pretty soon though. Maybe cooperatives have more going for them than meets the eye.

 

[0007]

I wouldn't trust the top politicians to run a corner grocery store. Unfortunately we are likely to be stuck with them for a long time to come. Maybe a selection system could be devised to make sure those with the right stuff are elected.

Many of the top politicians and their upcoming replacements have never had a proper job and are therefore unable to understand or connect with us plebs. I take my hat off to anybody who can successfully run a corner grocery store -- not an easy thing to do profitablythese days. Not that formal qualifications necessarily make for success in any career but is it significant that politics is one of the few jobs awarding great power where you do not need any qualification apart from a big mouth and ego. (Another job not requiring any formal qualifications to join, is the Police -- but that's another can of worms.)

 

[Splitlink]

Agree.
The path up the slippery pole to top positions as always doesn't take much of the abilities to run a country, much the same for business. The top positions are largely occupied by people good at back stabbing and infighting. I wouldn't trust the top politicians to run a corner grocery store. Unfortunately we are likely to be stuck with them for a long time to come. Maybe a selection system could be devised to make sure those with the right stuff are elected.

I was interested to see that Richard Branson's first effort at business was to have everyone on the same wage. He took over by getting rid of the rest pretty soon though. Maybe cooperatives have more going for them than meets the eye.

It seems to me that there is more than EU that is the problem with the UK. The current account deficit is 3.5% whereas Spain's is 2.55%, that according to the Economist and Spain's is bad.

The best thing is for you guys to have your refendum before the socialists get in and annul the lot, otherwise you'll be moaning until my kids die--you've done enough during my time.

I left the UK in 1965, before you all joined Europe. At that time there was Red Rob and all the rest of them and you could not take more than 300 GBP out of the country.

You leave the EU and I think that the country will drift back to that stage but, at least, EU will not get the stick for it.

 

[0007]

I left the UK in 1965, before you all joined Europe. At that time there was Red Rob and all the rest of them and you could not take more than 300 GBP out of the country.

You were lucky - I remember being stopped for a wallet search at Dover on my way to Germany, to make sure I hadn't got more than £50 on me!

 

[Splitlink]

You were lucky - I remember being stopped for a wallet search at Dover on my way to Germany, to make sure I hadn't got more than £50 on me!

Yes, I can remember that, too! You are not as young as I thought

I remember a joke when that regulation came into force. A guy said "Now I can afford to go on holliday abroad."

 

[Pat494]

You were lucky - I remember being stopped for a wallet search at Dover on my way to Germany, to make sure I hadn't got more than £50 on me!

The boom years may be coming to an end and dare I say that monetary restrictions could come back as nations pull up their drawbridges.

 

[Splitlink]

The boom years may be coming to an end and dare I say that monetary restrictions could come back as nations pull up their drawbridges.

I hope not. That period was rough. You should remember that the 50 quid that 007 talks of was 2-3 weeks wages, then. I bought a house in Godalming, with a mortgage, for 5000. That shows how much unions, socialism and life, in general, has devalued our currencies, savings and pensions.

Premier Macmillan said "You've never had it so good!"

 

[Atilla]

I thought Blair had his finger on the pulse with his comments towards the end of this clip.

BBC News - Tony Blair: 'EU referendum could create big problems'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21168776


Europe is about a bigger market which is able to better share technology and economies of scale to compete with the emerging powers.

Nations are not about fighting military wars but gaining economic advantages in a changing market place.


We should see the bigger picture and not just focus on personal political self interest.

 

[0007]

Premier Macmillan said "You've never had it so good!"

I suppose today he would say "You've never been had so good!"

 

[Mr. Crabs]

I think the EU is in terminal decline

As soon as the Germans get fed up supporting the lame duck countries with their debts then it will collapse whether Trichet and the EU supporters like it or not.
Greece. Portugal, Italy, Ireland etc. haven't played a fair game. They have just spent and spent what they didn't have. They are like black holes sucking the EU dry of resources.

Even on a political level a lot of the laws that everyone has to rubber stamp are pretty ridiculous especially on the human rights for terrorists and criminals, immigration etc. The MEPs enjoy a sumptious lifestyle and produce a load of hot air and rubbish.

The annual cost to Britain, France and Germany is just too great and the returns are too little. The PIIGs got fat on 30 years of handouts and are now bust. The only sensible course if anyone wants to save the EU is to eject them from the EU lifeboat.

I'm under the impression the small countries are being exploited for their leverage.

Although I do think the EU is a failed experiment, we're reaching the top of the pump before the dump. I have doubts the Euros' current valuation can be sustained, especially not through the next American bear cycle.

 

[Splitlink]

I'm under the impression the small countries are being exploited for their leverage.

Although I do think the EU is a failed experiment, we're reaching the top of the pump before the dump. I have doubts the Euros' current valuation can be sustained, especially not through the next American bear cycle.

I've defended the EU concept and, still, do. However, the latest corruption scandal involving Spain's political leaders is very depressing for those of us who live in those countries.

 

[Mr. Crabs]

I think the EU is in terminal decline

As soon as the Germans get fed up supporting the lame duck countries with their debts then it will collapse whether Trichet and the EU supporters like it or not.
Greece. Portugal, Italy, Ireland etc. haven't played a fair game. They have just spent and spent what they didn't have. They are like black holes sucking the EU dry of resources.

Even on a political level a lot of the laws that everyone has to rubber stamp are pretty ridiculous especially on the human rights for terrorists and criminals, immigration etc. The MEPs enjoy a sumptious lifestyle and produce a load of hot air and rubbish.

The annual cost to Britain, France and Germany is just too great and the returns are too little. The PIIGs got fat on 30 years of handouts and are now bust. The only sensible course if anyone wants to save the EU is to eject them from the EU lifeboat.

It's about time us Americans and English teamed up with the Swiss to take the Euro down a notch, it's been pumped up to such an overvalued and vulnerable position. There's hardly any point for it anyway, Europe is not like America, a 1 size fits all currency like the Euro can never maintain the position the dollar holds with its' ultimate force.