The cause is Israel/Palestine- The main trouble spots in the ME are not Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Quatar and the other main Arab oil producing states. The trouble spots are Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. and now, Iraq. In today's world, what oil is left will be sold on the commodity markets at the going price A fat lot of good Iraqi oil is going to be until they can export it. That is not going to be any time, soon. The rest of what you say about the division of countries after WWI is, more or less a repeat of what I said.
Religion is only a tool, etc. I agree with that 100 per cent. But it is an important tool, nevertheless, and cannot be discounted, especially when it is being used by important, Muslim nations such as Iran, Pakistan and Indonesia.
What my main objection to the tone of these arguments is that no one wants to share the blame for what is happening. It is all Bush's fault. It is all Blair's fault. What a lot of crap. At least, in Spain, Aznar lost the election to a government that pulled out of Iraq within weeks, so it is no good saying that the American and British could not have done the same. It is like saying that we are completely stupid in the election of our leaders and, please,remember that Bush is in his second term of office, while Blair has resigned after ten years in office.
Split
No the cause is not Israel & Palestine. That is a trouble spot yes but that is not the cause for the current wars or mess in the ME!
1. How did Israel & Palestine cause the war between Iran and Iraq?
2. How did Israel & Palestine cause the war between Iraq and Kuwait?
Israel and Palestine are very small countries used as peons in winning the hearts and minds of people. They are definately not the cause.
1. Iranians got sick and tired with the late Shah of Iran and had a revolution. Nuclear weapons were recommended to the Shah of Iran by the US. That's when their Nuclear program started. So what you see is continuation of that work.
In return for the US embarrassment, US cosied up to Saddam and got it to launch an attack on Iran. The late Shah of Iran exploited the Kurds to attack Iraqi interests in border disputes. US used this fact and tooled up Saddam to hit back and so the 9 year war or something was launched with US encouragement – Hit Iran whilst it was in post revolution turmoil and claim back land for Iraq. Call it what you will. Some would also add that the US encouraged the Shah of Iran to use the Kurds againts Saddam, so it could expand it's territories. This is disputed. However, not an unreasonable point as US often plays off countries against each other. You only have to look Latin America and Asia.
2. Much later on, having encouraged Saddam to get even with Iran after the revolution, Saddam found out US was giving arms and weapons to Iran (as well as supplying Iraq with arms and sattelite intelligence on Iranian movements - also do you remember Colonel North and Reagan fiasco. With the money from Iranian arms sales they supported the Nicaragua contra rebels and drug trafficers to overthrow the elected socialist Sandinista government in Latin America. You tell me the morality of this act. So who do you blame? You hold the view Israel and Palestine is the cause? Anyway, Raegan and Colonel North both took the 5th Amendment and nothing came of this immoral **** stirring and the episode is consigned to dust. BUT by then a very big change occurred. That is when Saddam turned and became an enemy of the US. Does anybody question why or how Saddam a US strong ally became an enemy?
Also bear in mind Iranian and Iraqi war was a stalemate after Saddam was supplied with chemical weapons as the US could not have the Iranians win. 1 million + Iranians died in that war. This is what you call a proxy war. Who do you hold accountable for these deaths. Saddam the agressor perhaps the US strong ally? I hope you don't mention Israel and Paletine. Read “
Against All Enemies – Inside America’s War on Terror by Richard A Clark” This man was the national security adviser to three presidents including Bush Jnr., before he resigned. One can only take so much abuse eh?
Saddam having shed it's US luggage, then attacked Kuwait. (Israel and Palestine had nothing to do with this either). With Saudi Arabian and Kuwait money, the US fought the first gulf war.
The second gulf war in the ME, is all about over throwing Saddam because a large number of ME countries like Iran, Iraq and a number of others now no longer wish to sell or trade oil in dollars, but in Euros.
At the moment this is US worst night mare coupled with sinking dollar.
Think of the master stroke plan to take Iraqi oil and install US puppet government. Start selling Iraqi oil for US dollars - claim worlds remaining 50% oil for your self and you get to keep 70% of those proceeds. Teach Iran a lesson by getting Iraq to attack it, have another revolution, get rid of the mullahs and install a similar US friendly regime similar to the one with the late Shah of Iran. There is no problem with the countries you mention like the Saudi Arabia because it tows the US line. Watch what it happens if it steps outside. Also, other than Saudi Arabia remaining oil is in Iraq and Iran - 50 - 70% on experts accounts.
So when you talk about dealing with the problems in the Islamic World you have got your facts totally wrong. That's what the media and propoganda machine in elite government circles portray. That's all bull. It's purely oil and US interests mate. They and you can call it problems in the Islamic World and portray it as Islamic terrorism as much as you like. Only the people who don't care in the US and UK will buy it. As long as we are untouched and well off we get to live our lives and peace and comfort whilst causing death and destruction elsewhere it's cool. Rest of the world is wise to the strategic developments.
None of the above has anything to do with Israel and Palestine. This is like a little side show with little or no consequence irrespective of the suffering of all people in the region inclusive of Muslims, Jews and Christians. Religeon is merely a tool and I’m no Marxist.
Nobody believes Iran will launch nukes on Israel - not even Israelli intelligence. If one thinks about it - they would kill all the Leaboneese, Palestinians Jordanians and Egyptions in the process. This is rubbish fed out by the media to the masses. Nukes are defensive deterrent weapons not offensive. Does anybody seriously believe Iran thinks it can use it's nukes and survive to tell the tale? In return it will be wiped off the map.
Developments in Dubai is to setup a petrol borse there to trade petrol in Euros. It aims to become a financial hub to the new world order (no conspiracy pun intended) of the BRIC countries. There lies the real threat to our world order and financial markets.
Iran Pakistan and Indonesia are not important muslim nations. They are simply nations. Why make the Christian, Catholic or Muslim or Jewish nation distinction. When you talk in such fashion you are missing the point and stirring up the very fact the religeous gits want you to do.
The blame lies squarely with the US foreign policy IMHO. When you talk about sharing blame you are way off the mark.
US made Osama bin-Laden just as it made Saddam, just as it made the Shah of Iran, just as it made Noriega of Nicaragua. Think about it some more. Why would strong old allies of the US turn against the US? What do they have to gain or what do they have to lose? At the moment US is about to lose another one of it’s strong allies, Turkey. US doesn’t like the gas deal signed with Iran. (Currently Iranians have signed up some big gas supply deals with Turkey to supply gas to Europe, thus undermining Russian influence in Europe. Gas will be exported via Turkey and Greece to Italy and then to rest of Europe. Pure economic business. Resources and money.) It was pissed off because Turkish parliament voted against the war. At least against it without UN approval. Not only that, US arms and technology have ended up in Kurdish terrorists hands. It will not be long when Israel’s usefulness runs out along with oil in 30 years time and they too will be discarded. When the UK fought Argentina we received little help from the US. US wanted to be seen as impartial so as not to compromise its interests in Latin America.
Yes we are completely stupid by electioneering as we get lied to by politicians. Boris sold the Russian jewels at a penny. Putin is working for Russia and it's people but to us he is made out to be some deamon. The Russian people love him. Ask any Russian or non Western person. We harbour all Russian enemies and support them to undermine a stronger Russia. The very people who stole billions in Russia are in the UK. Same goes for China. The number of times I hear Tianomon Square being mentioned and Chinas human rights. Does anybody seriously think a bunch of revolutionary students could manage China? 60+ students dead and what an out cry. US killed and abused more of it’s own citizens in the trade unions back in the 30s. Beaten to a pulp. US human rights record is in front of the whole globe to see. Look at Iraq. Who is to blame for it all. Not one terrorist brought up before the courts. Why not? Al-Qaeda mentioned a zillion times. Where are these foreign fighters in Iraq? Does anybody see or hear a foreigner brought up for trial in Iraq. US just keeps blaming Iran. How effing smart is that. It travels 000's of miles to interfere in countless countries internal affairs and democracy and tells a neighbouring country not to interfere.
You don't blame US or UK but you like shared blame to me metted out. Incredible. Your handle on the situation is way of the mark IMHO.
You talk about Islamic World problem. I am talking about a global problem in that any one country invested with super power status is bad for the world. We need to have a balance. I blame the US foreign policy.
Do you buy all that crap about they don't like our freedom, democracy and civilised way of life?
So if you still hold the opinion the next US and UK leaders will still have to solve the problems in the Islamic World, I would say yes by pulling our troops out and undoing our **** policies of the last century. Moving away from oil and spending money on R&D and new energy sources is the way forward.
If people out there still feel we are part of the solution and helping with the problems in the Islamic World, then there are some very deceived bodies out there...
We (US & UK in the ME) are the problem:!:
