Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

[montmorencyt2w]

Does anyone know if SML would be good for trading the news on FX? I think the spreads stay the same but maybe the slippage would make it impossible?

Pre-news, post-news, or spike-trading? I doubt if any SB platform is going to be very good for the latter. Mind you, Peter C., over on the CMC thread, might take you on, "if you think you're hard enough..."

 

[Mata Nui]

Execution on SLM live is actually better than on the demo. Support is good and you can bet from 10p per point to start.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Execution on SLM live is actually better than on the demo. Support is good and you can bet from 10p per point to start.

Good to hear it. They don't answer my emails. Admittedly I only have a demo account, but this is still unprofessional.

I will give their live account a try one of these days (if they deign to open my account this time, the cheeky so-and-sos).

 

[stiltskin]

There were problems with the demo platform yesterday. Mine was off twice for about 10 mins each time. Live was OK though. Made a couple of live trades with no problems.

From your description it seems the issue you had was the MT4 software not the actual povider. I would try to re-install and if that doesnt work give SLM a call. Like someone else said the support is actually very good.

Thankfully no fatal errors/crashes this week.
Only disconected once this whole week. Last week was about 3 times a day.

Quite often get requotes, had 3 in a row on Wednesday. I guess because price is moving very fast?
Bit annoying but on the whole I like MT4 platform.

Down 2.4% this last 3 weeks on Demo, so definitely need more time to practice.

 

[gle101]

Does anyone know if SML would be good for trading the news on FX? I think the spreads stay the same but maybe the slippage would make it impossible?

No I don't think that would be a good idea. I tested a few straddle orders without any success of getting executed. I think it is too early, if will take a year for them to get settled, hopefully they will remain in business by then. I think SB on a Mt4 platform is a great idea, I hope they stick to it and improve their service.

 

[gle101]

Thankfully no fatal errors/crashes this week.
Only disconected once this whole week. Last week was about 3 times a day.

Quite often get requotes, had 3 in a row on Wednesday. I guess because price is moving very fast?
Bit annoying but on the whole I like MT4 platform.

Down 2.4% this last 3 weeks on Demo, so definitely need more time to practice.

Demo trading too long is not good. With this kind of low stake I think you can afford to get the real thing, and that is a live account. You cannot get a proper validation and learning period without it.

 

[kerching]

Demo trading too long is not good. With this kind of low stake I think you can afford to get the real thing, and that is a live account. You cannot get a proper validation and learning period without it.

hi gle101 - i can agree there to a degree, but on the other hand wherever you look and find information worth any weight, you will get it drummed in to you -trade demo until you have 3 winning months at least on the spin, don't backtest forward test with demo, ooh but then you need years of data of your trading plan under your belt before dipping your toes in as a few months could just be blip, ...i mean when do you finally take the plunge? who's to say playing live smalll stakes at 0.10p partial lot on a particular SB firm is going to mirror what will happen if you are successful and leap up to £5 lots? you'll be playing with profit by then i agree, but even so...

all i want is to trade my plan with the real risk of losing being me versus the market..not the middle man distorting the battle for scummy gains.. i pay someone for the use of their platform, the rent and their efforts... they get the commission/spread on my trades, i get decent data to make a possible living.. simple?!... why can't it purely work in that utopian manor?...surely there are ways for brokers/SB firms to make the bottom line better via alternative moral means other than sneeky and snidey theft? you know if it were to help, then why dont they apply a set 3-5% tax of their own for useage on executed trades like the Betfair model and leave the frigging data alone? yes they need to hedge but surely that doesnt mean stitching the clients up at all costs? DMA may well negate all this but i dont have the funds or knowledge to go there yet.. but that shouldn't mean i shouldn't have a fair chance of trading profitably until i am able to egt there should it?

having worked for an exchange data product provider, i understand that price data is not an exact science and errrors will occur, i should know i've fought some fires in a couple of the city's IT depts to keep data feeds alive, but there's genuine loss of data and genuine slippage (due to whatever - liquidity volume etc etc) and then there's sculdugery that the federal reserve and IMF would be proud of.

and just to assure SML - again i reiterrate that although this is on the SML thread i am in no way accusing them of such dealings.. i am just looking for some answers from them before/if i sign up.. but there are others who practise such despicable acts which not only makes me angry, but very nervous when searching for a broker. it's a little sad really.

ooh it gets me..

k

 

[Ross Spur]

Good to hear it. They don't answer my emails. Admittedly I only have a demo account, but this is still unprofessional.

I will give their live account a try one of these days (if they deign to open my account this time, the cheeky so-and-sos).

That's worrying. My rule is to stop using any business that consistently doesn't reply to e-mails, which is why Finspreads is in danger of losing the money they have on loan from me.

 

[pineappleman]

DMA may well negate all this but i dont have the funds or knowledge to go there yet.. but that shouldn't mean i shouldn't have a fair chance of trading profitably until i am able to egt there should it?

But the world isn't fair, you see many of these cowboy SB brokers have seen a way to take your money using their tricks, and why not? It's dog eat dog. I wish it was perfect like you, and yes DMA stops all these problems and leaves it as just war between you and the market. I am aiming for this too myself.

But while you are under-funded to play with the big boys (futures), you are always at risk of being eaten by the lions in not just SB but also general FX brokers who data spike you - remember FX has no exchange so brokers can pretty much do as they please. They all offer account openings of £100 here or $200 there... for what?! What can you do with that amount?! They just want to take it, it's the law of the jungle.

Currency futures (CME traded so genuine data and very tight spreads on DMA) is the utopia for FX traders to aim for as far as I'm concerned - I'm going for it as soon as I can. All this SB nonsense isn't worth it. Can you really build wealth using a bookmaker in an industry well known for these underhand tricks??!! I mean, really?! When you stop and think about what you're up against with many of these thieves, the tax issue isn't so bad... especially if you find a way to not live off the trading profit, just build it up instead whilst stacking shelves in Tesco, so you technically wont pay income tax that way, only capital gains I believe.

But.... going back to SB.... if you want to stay in the realm of spreadbetting... well, I've said it before and I'll say it again.... ProSpreads - almost DMA spreadbetting, more expensive than true futures but the best thing in the world of SB by a mile.

Else move away from shady SB and FX brokers, head to the futures. You can't get stung on an exchange.

 

[pineappleman]

Oh, forgot to say:

CME now offers E-mini and E-micro FX futures. Exciting stuff, but be warned the E-micros are very illiquid I think, i could be wrong, but they're quite new and haven't really taken off. However, the E-mini FX futs are liquid enough I believe (if anyone knows better please correct me).

The price movement on the E-mini EURUSD is $1.25 (1 tenth of full contract).

These should really be more exciting than the mini and micro FX accounts out there, as they are traded on a proper exchange with no nasty tricks, tiny spreads which rarely widen, no overnight fees etc...

Am thinking of opening an account with Lion Futures (Jim from James16 fame recommended them a while ago as a discount no-frills broker) and giving the E-mini FX a go. I'd rather pay 1 pip true spread, no overnight fees, have the security of indisputable exchange data, get quick fills even in NFP and heavy news etc than keep fighting these sodding SB/FX brokers at every turn.

 

[kerching]

hey pineappleman.. nice post..

"Else move away from shady SB and FX brokers, head to the futures. You can't get stung on an exchange."

i actually started out on on a minute scale on indicies and exchange based stuff, but got hurt at another SB..i didnt' try brokers .. in truth the method i was using at that point wasn't up to much really so didnt proceed. FX and MT4 has opened a whole new learning curve and environament up to me, which i prefer and i think i can do ok in time given the right tools/broker.hence my delight at the thought of SML being a possible "new dawning" in this area and my questions on this thread.


the more i look and read comments like yours re the the tax offset versus a "legite" data feed if there is one at retail/ecn broker level, the more i am beginning to be pesuaded.

i have kept an eye on Prospreads with view to the future on the thread here at T2W and elsewhere..i have had it in the back of my mind to take this further, but startup funds and experience may prove it to be a little premature. spread is more expensive (4 pips roundtrip i believe on GU) and more expensive startup but like you say, may be worth biting the bullet eventually..

utopia is still along way off and probably never reachable unfortunately (money distorts morality)- but in return for a kind of fairplay pledge (please dont slaughter me regards my naivety here lol) , the taxing traders per trade model aka Betfair may (or probably not) be an attractive idea to would be startup traders if they knew there was level playing field re the brokers tactics/feed... or is that a foolish dream?. probably.

good luck

k

p.s pinappleman just caught your second post re futures.. sounds like a good plan.. i havent looked at futures at all and know little about them, not that i'm an expert in any field at all... i have spent many hours setting this method up am reasonably happy with spot fx - if only i can find a way to trade it to the max without being ripped one by the gatekeepers.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

hi gle101 - i can agree there to a degree, but on the other hand wherever you look and find information worth any weight, you will get it drummed in to you -trade demo until you have 3 winning months at least on the spin, don't backtest forward test with demo, ooh but then you need years of data of your trading plan under your belt before dipping your toes in as a few months could just be blip, ...i mean when do you finally take the plunge? who's to say playing live smalll stakes at 0.10p partial lot on a particular SB firm is going to mirror what will happen if you are successful and leap up to £5 lots? you'll be playing with profit by then i agree, but even so...

all i want is to trade my plan with the real risk of losing being me versus the market..not the middle man distorting the battle for scummy gains.. i pay someone for the use of their platform, the rent and their efforts... they get the commission/spread on my trades, i get decent data to make a possible living.. simple?!... why can't it purely work in that utopian manor?...surely there are ways for brokers/SB firms to make the bottom line better via alternative moral means other than sneeky and snidey theft? you know if it were to help, then why dont they apply a set 3-5% tax of their own for useage on executed trades like the Betfair model and leave the frigging data alone? yes they need to hedge but surely that doesnt mean stitching the clients up at all costs? DMA may well negate all this but i dont have the funds or knowledge to go there yet.. but that shouldn't mean i shouldn't have a fair chance of trading profitably until i am able to egt there should it?

having worked for an exchange data product provider, i understand that price data is not an exact science and errrors will occur, i should know i've fought some fires in a couple of the city's IT depts to keep data feeds alive, but there's genuine loss of data and genuine slippage (due to whatever - liquidity volume etc etc) and then there's sculdugery that the federal reserve and IMF would be proud of.

and just to assure SML - again i reiterrate that although this is on the SML thread i am in no way accusing them of such dealings.. i am just looking for some answers from them before/if i sign up.. but there are others who practise such despicable acts which not only makes me angry, but very nervous when searching for a broker. it's a little sad really.

ooh it gets me..

k

What are you trading, by the way? (Sorry if you already said).
EDIT: ok, I see you just said FX.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Oh, forgot to say:

CME now offers E-mini and E-micro FX futures. Exciting stuff, but be warned the E-micros are very illiquid I think, i could be wrong, but they're quite new and haven't really taken off. However, the E-mini FX futs are liquid enough I believe (if anyone knows better please correct me).

The price movement on the E-mini EURUSD is $1.25 (1 tenth of full contract).

So, like $1.25 per pip then? Sounds ok.

What's the micro per pip then?

These should really be more exciting than the mini and micro FX accounts out there, as they are traded on a proper exchange with no nasty tricks, tiny spreads which rarely widen, no overnight fees etc...

Am thinking of opening an account with Lion Futures (Jim from James16 fame recommended them a while ago as a discount no-frills broker) and giving the E-mini FX a go. I'd rather pay 1 pip true spread, no overnight fees, have the security of indisputable exchange data, get quick fills even in NFP and heavy news etc than keep fighting these sodding SB/FX brokers at every turn.

Does sound rather good. Not SB of course.
One thing that's put me off dealing with US brokers is that I think you have to wire them funds and withdrawals get wired back to you. Don't know why they can't use debit cards like our SB firms take. (or do they?). And I think all that wiring costs, and there are usually restrictions. Plus it's a different jurisdiction, etc, etc...

 

[Ross Spur]

So, like $1.25 per pip then? Sounds ok.

What's the micro per pip then?


Does sound rather good. Not SB of course.
One thing that's put me off dealing with US brokers is that I think you have to wire them funds and withdrawals get wired back to you. Don't know why they can't use debit cards like our SB firms take. (or do they?). And I think all that wiring costs, and there are usually restrictions. Plus it's a different jurisdiction, etc, etc...

Some US brokers have UK accounts, but I was put off by a form you have to complete to do with taxation. The broker seemed to require clients to sign something that wasn't actually true....

 

[pineappleman]

Micro pip I'm not sure I think may be one tenth of Mini?? But they (micros) are illiquid I think, the mini's are liquid enough and the full size are extremely liquid. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me as I like to know when I'm wrong LOL!

Ross, what was the thing that wasn't true on the forms??

Mont: what's wrong with bank wires? Remember this is a business not just a fun gambling operation. Futures are serious trading for serious people, we must treat this like a business. Bank wires are part of legit business as far as I'm concerned. If anything, debit card transactions seem a bit dodgy to fund a business to me anyway!!

Kerching: yes Prospreads are more expensive than real futures as you have to pay the spread they add twice (once open once close) so there is the choice: real futures with tax or SB futures with bigger spread and no tax. We are obviously walking the same path, you and I. I feel I have a method I am comfortable with now I want the simpliest route to market as possible, so to speak. I don't want to fight brokers and have to watch my back when I am watching charts. I looked at SLM with MT4 for same reason as you and saw the max £50pp as you and thought "but will they let us build wealth?" like you, etc. More and more I'm seeing that if you have small account you either start with the best SB you can find, perhaps that is SLM(?), and trade until you have account big enough for real futures or Prospreads (re: tax decision) OR you start with the E-mini FX from small account.

I'm hoping one of us runs off and tests the E-minis FX now!

Actually I'm opening a demo with Lion Futures coz their trading platform is supposed to be great and you can programme EasyLanguage from Tradestation into it (oddly) which is great news and they have no fees for data, platform, anything. They are a basic no frills discount broker with a (supposedly) awesome platform. Opening demo next week. Really, I just want to see if the E-Mini Fx is honestly liquid enough to trade all day with no entry/exit issues and if the spread really does stay at 1pip 99% of the time for all 6 USD cross majors.

If these two things = yes then it's goodbye SB forever I think.

PS: can someone clarify: if I am not touching any profit for income purposes (if I have a weekend job that pays my bills) then all profit made on a regular futures account is income tax free? So what tax do I have to pay, just capital gains? The tax issue is new to me as I have always been an SB lover.

Thanks a million

PINE

 

[kerching]

hey Pine..

i agree fully re the being on the same path and the starting out dilema and possible growth issues... i know even less about futures than i do about fx spot, which i'm still learning day by day, but my trading style is such that i dont' need to be a Leonardo Da Vinci...thankfully. KISS they say..

will start learning about furtures but know didly sqaut re correlation to fx spot, pricing, platforms, feeds, exchanges etc. if anyone can shorten the learning journey with links, pointers or some literature would be grateful.

if i can apply what i'm doing to those markets it may be a way to go. trading a fixed exchange and market would help the paranoia.

re the tax - if you are in the uk, i don't believe SB is taxable unless you get to noteable regular gains as it is i understand it is classed as betting which is tax free in the UK... (your local bookies will be more then happy to remind you of that as he offers you 5/1 on the 5 dog with 3 legs in the 2:30 at Wimbledon dogs.)


no response from SML yet .. maybe they are busy making things tick?


good luck

k

 

[Ross Spur]

no response from SML yet .. maybe they are busy making things tick?




k

My impression is that a lot of people who'd wanted, or thought they wanted, MT4 spreadbetting eagerly signed up with SLM when they launched, but for various reasons have now gone back to other providers.

 

[RoryP]

My impression is that a lot of people who'd wanted, or thought they wanted, MT4 spreadbetting eagerly signed up with SLM when they launched, but for various reasons have now gone back to other providers.

I am still with SLM after 10 months or so. I have had no problems with them. The odd pip or two of slippage and teh occasional order that isn't filled is very minor as far as I am concerned, as you have outlined in previous posts you would expect this at any SB/Broker. Each trade I make has a TP of atleast 60 so I do not fuss over the odd pip or two lost to SLM.
They could do with having someone here as before answering the questions that people have though, wouldn't hurt would it?

 

[Jaroon]

Yup I been trading with SLM for 2 weeks now, quite intensively at 6-8 trades a day and only missed a fill once and was filled on second attempt moments later.

So far so good in all fairness but if I come across issues I'll shout.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Mont: what's wrong with bank wires? Remember this is a business not just a fun gambling operation. Futures are serious trading for serious people, we must treat this like a business. Bank wires are part of legit business as far as I'm concerned. If anything, debit card transactions seem a bit dodgy to fund a business to me anyway!!

Professional, yes, I would aim to be that, but for now, I don't pretend to be anything other than a small retail fish in a very big pond. I don't see anything dodgy about using a debit card. Yes, if I were depositing £100,000 into my account, then a debit card wouldn't make sense, but I don't mind admitting that I'm a long way from that league.

Setting up a bank wire would mean a visit to a bank branch, whereas I can deposit into an SB from the comfort of my own home with no fuss. Certainly with my bank (and I doubt if it's alone), you cannot set up any international bank transfers from the online banking interface. I don't know if business accounts offer this.

If you read the CMC thread, you will see that Peter Cruddas wants to update the image (and reality) of the spread-betting world to make it more like the professional trading world. Maybe it will never succeed, but if it does, I think it will offer a lot to, let as call them, the more serious-minded spread-betters, without having to get into the world of cross-border money transfers and dealing with firms operating under a foreign regulatory authority, and about which we probably know very little.