Short but sweet Ninja + Zen

[black bear]

Thanks Lockstock... observation and comment appreciated

"Black bear,

Thanks for the PM Your RT commisions are astronomical by the way."

Hi Lockstock

Thanks for pointing it out, appreciated Lockstock.

Get what you pay for imho.

I require 1st class service and 1st class execution (instant) of trades which to date I have received from my provider. If that ever becomes even a slight problem I will vote with my feet. I expect it because I am paying for it in full. If I progress to the next level = trading in real size, I will apply for a volume discount pretty dam quick

I choose the above regardless of cost because I think its cheaper in the long run provided service and platform are first class. It is only something to worry about if I find I can not infact trade anyway. So far the commistion (RT) or platform costs have not proved to be any problem. I have read it is very important but I have not found it an issue even though I trade quite frequent aiming for 7-15 pts most of the time ~ so get the first couple of years out of the way and concentrate on my trading not my connection or platform settings and problems etc

Phone answered 3-5 rings by a dealer who gets you out ASAP or is happy to sit around and quote you and place or update any market orders for you if platform or connection problem as taken place.

Tek issues, I have only had two in five months they were sorted almost instantly via net meeting by individuals who new system backwards.

Failure to close out trade happened once on platform, I phoned and it was an issue with data feed / server / relay error :?: the trade was closed out via phone to the exhchange, the fill was better than I expected, platform was still running so could still see price. Phoned back within 5 minutes with details and Tek issue resolved in 15 minutes.

Even the above does not guarentee to get you out, so its still your responsibility to be in at a size that will not break the bank even accounting for the once in fifty year event. Thats the way I see it anyway, I can control that or try to based on past known events that have moved the market very fast = no market for a bit :-0

Bit biased opinion I guess because of my past experience with SB firms and their connection disconnects / freeze charts and platforms and sloppy or no service etc etc etc etc etc etc which I found made trading / maintaining a level head next to impossible.

I looked at a lot of Brokers etc when I was looking to go DA, bothered everyone with pms etc, phoned up brokers etc none gave me any confidence or gave a sh..t to be honest. That was the impression I was given, they just wanted you to sign with them and add you to the list of potential victims, just another account a number on the books.

Sales answer = Very fast

Service answer = when they feel like it = a week later usually = Very slow

I used to repair vehicles(own business) and in that trade paint / colour match is or was a real issue and re-working a job according to many I spoke to was common place and proved a real profit cutter. I never had much problem with it but then I used ICI the most expensive paint on the market at the time and every one said I was mad. Just hated to do a job twice, total waste of time and effort imho. Prefered to just get on with the job and always used the best paint and genuine parts, if the margin is that small its an issue = look for another job imho or you will end up a busy fool.

All the best, hope you get sorted out Lockstock :clover:

Nice boat so no need to say have a good weekend errrrrrrrrr hope its calm weather

 

[DT]

As has already been covered ref: the broker you should have phoned up immediately and given them clear instructions to close the position. Its no good arguing about what you think they should have assumed or what you think they should have done you simply need to give them clear unambiguous instructions.

As for the software - software sometimes fails its simply a risk you have to take. I'd wager that if you documented the issue, took screen prints and submitted the log then they might have been able to investigate it, recreated it in a test environment and (if it turned out to be a bug) provide a fix in their next release- They'd probably thank you for it tbh...

By the sounds of it you e-mailed them when you've got a position open and want to know who to blame. They're a small software firm and for the few dollars you're paying them, from their perspective it isn't worth the hassle.

 

[lockstock]

As has already been covered ref: the broker you should have phoned up immediately and given them clear instructions to close the position. Its no good arguing about what you think they should have assumed or what you think they should have done you simply need to give them clear unambiguous instructions.

As for the software - software sometimes fails its simply a risk you have to take. I'd wager that if you documented the issue, took screen prints and submitted the log then they might have been able to investigate it, recreated it in a test environment and (if it turned out to be a bug) provide a fix in their next release- They'd probably thank you for it tbh...

By the sounds of it you e-mailed them when you've got a position open and want to know who to blame. They're a small software firm and for the few dollars you're paying them, from their perspective it isn't worth the hassle.

Another one jumping on the bandwagon.


The mistakes made regarding not getting out quick enough and then arguing the point have been accepted, and the list ( I am repeating this for the umpteenth time) that mathemagicain produced will serve all members well pros and rookies alike.

Regarding the software company, I don't care if It is free, $1 $100 or a $1000 a month, if someone sets them up to do something and they bring it to market then turn round and with out a bye your leave just pull the plug, then there is something wrong with the way they are doing business, something wrong with their customer services and in my opinion it shouldn't be allowed.

This isn't an issue about money, it's an issue to shoddy treatment and morals, ( I can hear the sniggers all ready, and frankly this is the world we have come to live in, where customer services is a word of the past and people think it is normal to be sh!t on and just wipe it away and move on)

The least this company had a responsibility of doing was looking at the logs. They did nothing.

As proved from the guy form SYdney, this is not an isolated incident.

Black bear, if you are happy then good for you, that's all you really need when you are trading, a settled peaceful mind, if you can rely on the software, then the rest will take care of itself.

As for the boat, it is moored in the centre of Norwich , weather was fine-ish. Took a bike ride around the Cathedral area and took some wonderful snaps.

The craft is hooked up for shore power and has all the ameneties on board you would want at home but on the water. 32" plasma, Old dutch Kabola oil stove, microwave, internet, radiators, shower & wc, it is like having a flat in the city. But at half the cost.

 

[lockstock]

Well, for a bit of balance, I've been using ninja for a few years now and have moved a lot of contracts through it. To date, I've been able to track down the source of every one of the handful of apparent "software glitches" that have appeared and it's invariably been something I've done. YMMV

Well for a bit of balance would you like to highlight the glitches and then it will be balanced.


You see, from where I am sat you are only talking about it, where as I produced the logs, you cannot get more simple on the NT superdom than pressing the CANCEL button and it either works or it doesn' t work.

But I would have been standing on the side of Mathemagicain and the other chap that poster backing Nnja if I hadn't had this problem. I thought it was pretty darn good up until that point and you can only report as you find, so I thoroughly expect people who haven't had a problem with it, to come out and defent the software.


That still doesn't negate my duty to make people aware of a likely scenario that may or may not happen with it.

 

[nine]

Does anyone else know of any Ninjatrader customers who were given their money back and banned?

Just curious given how long they've been around.

 

[shadowpug]

For additional balance, here is my perspective:

- Lockstock has been a time sink on my staff since day 1
- His posts in our forum are frequently condescending and abusive
- This past week he was asked if there were any "funny" messages in his logs --> Meaning anything out of the ordinary
- He then chose to reply with an abusive post insulting one our principals
- This was the straw that broke the camel’s back
- I refunded him 100% of monies paid and banned him from our services

He wins the award for the 1st customer ever banned in 4 years in existence.

Ray - President of NinjaTrader

 

[Mathemagician]

Well for a bit of balance would you like to highlight the glitches and then it will be balanced.


You see, from where I am sat you are only talking about it, where as I produced the logs, you cannot get more simple on the NT superdom than pressing the CANCEL button and it either works or it doesn' t work.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's hard to balance well in excess of a hundred thousand very satisfied round-turns I've executed through ninja with your one unsatisfied round turn. On that we will simply have to agree to disagree.

jj

 

[SpeedScalper]

NinjaTrader Log

Lockstock,

I have been with NinjaTrader and Mirus Futures for a long time. Put on several Webinars with NinjaTrader and Mirus Futures. I personally know Ray from NinjaTrader....and Eliot from Mirus Futures. You won't find two better and honest people in the trading business. You were far better off with NT and Mirus....than you would be with most brokers and trading platforms.

The following is not to knock you in anyway. I may be reading your Log incorrectly....but there are some things that I don't understand. I don't know how long you have been using Ninja....but it seems you were not using it to your advantage.

Did you ever participate in the Free Webinars that NinjaTrader offers? If not....that is one of the first things you should have done before trading with NinjaTrader. Ray and John at NinjaTrader....go out of their way....to make sure traders understand how to use their trading platform. You will not find this with other companies.

Why would you Enter a trade?....without a Strategy. I see there is no Stop Price for your Entry. If you set up a Strategy....you Automatically have a Stop Loss to protect yourself from big losses. This is very important. You would not have gotten into this situation with a Strategy. Your....Stop Loss....would have taken you out....you would not have needed to hit the Close button.

Here is a picture with some of my observations.

VSTscalper

 

[black bear]

Happened to me to........and did not consider this before hand

Black bears platform went on one last night on mini Dow

Fw even mused I may have been trading the Dow without bathing equipment on

Details

one short at 34 stop entered and market moved approx 20 pts in favour slid stop in (deal off Charts one comes up when stop entered off ticket) Stop worked no problem for what was BE trade and log shows it up perfect

one short at 43 stop as per above and at -25, slid in to +10 warched price go straight through Stop and

logged out quick and back in to see if platform would work

returned to original short on screen at 34 and price going against us and NEWS now due :-0

phoned and ...................complete waste of time, Guy told me to if I think I am in to close trade out

I am asking you if I am in, I think I am in at 43 your platform is showing an old trade and I have a market order to buy at 07 that I have not placed (removed myself asap)

until you tell me I cannot do anything can I, for all I now I could be flat and its just platform failure

oh I see I will find out and phone you right back

Thank you that would be very nice then I can act

some time later, was I suppose pretty quick but not when News out

Yes sir your short one at 43

Super, well no worries price is on its retun journey from $500 down so I might get lucky


Screen shots and logs copied etc

logged in and out a few times and platform still showing 34 short trade the whole time I was in market till I closed out which the platform did as per 1st request

:clover::clover: + 130 pts in the end but very very lucky I was not short 10 lots or more


Impossible situation I think :?: or am I missing something, no way of hedging a trade if you do not now you have one in

So .................

Split I will re-think posted messages regards DA being best for newbies etc after last night

I ended up in a nice trade but that was the plan anyway, was going in after the news if Dow spiked up and forced to stay in with one and hope platform worked 1st time when it was time to go

Trade was confirmed live at around Dow 969 ish so no reason to do anything straight away but had missed the blow off, infact was in it if it proved not to be one :-0

Have toned down feelings because all file are being looked at together with logs etc with Tek guy I now is very good

Only answer I can see to the problem is always make sure position size is small and almost un-levered or errrrrrrrrrr chance it

Re think required to small move trading for sure, always have plenty of margin in trades so even a bad move against me really is max off 1% of me


but even so, a bit worrying

Latter :clover:

Will post later regards the result / findings



NOT NINJA PLATFORM another one

 

[black bear]

Sorry = not ninja platform

another one, but very similer functions etc

deal off chart and everything you can think off including the monthly bill

 

[Splitlink]

Did I hear a little birdie telling me about quick fills, etc?

Split

 

[black bear]

Fastest fill this week

Did I hear a little birdie telling me about quick fills, etc?

Split

lol

that was a quick fill

errrrrrrr all ended ok, but could have got very nasty if I was in at size

Could have stopped my ticker

Hope all well at your end

 

[nine]

I'm back in mod role. Closing the thread.

I left it open for a few days after the official Ninja Trader response but that "discussion" seems finished for now. So its closed. PM me if thats a problem for anyone.