Oh another thing, someone mentioned in a different thread that after a stint in a firm like STA, no big IB would touch you with a barge pole. Any reason for that? Coz I was actually looking at this as an oppurtunity to get my foot in the door and work my way up into a position with the top guns.
Directional
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prop is definately not a route into a bulge bracket. thats not to say it cant be done, but if you want to go IB you're better to start IB. Prop and IB are two very different trading roles. Its the difference between running your own business and have a 12hr a day job with a pay check and bonus.
IB's want a yes man.
They want to train you to do their thing their way.
They don't want any creativity. (ala SocGen)
They want you to produce. You don't have to make a lot, just consistency.
They don't want you to lose money, not even a little bit.
If you have experience, that's a strike against you.
If you "know" the market, that's a strike against you.
If you have an opinion, that's a strike against you.
IB's want a yes man.
They want to train you to do their thing their way.
They don't want any creativity. (ala SocGen)
They want you to produce. You don't have to make a lot, just consistency.
They don't want you to lose money, not even a little bit.
If you have experience, that's a strike against you.
If you "know" the market, that's a strike against you.
If you have an opinion, that's a strike against you.
Umm, ok. So considering that all the deadlines for the IB have already passed trying to get in with a grad scheme is pretty much out of the question for me. Any suggestions on how I can go about doing this?
P.S. My first post was on the previous page and seems to have been overlooked so I am reposting it here.
"hello everyone
I was wondering do you think taking up something like this (STA professional trader programme) by a fresh grad is worth it?
From what I read on this forum I learnt that not only do STA not pay you a salary but I will have to fork out to trade using their infrastructure.
Considering I have absolutely no experience in this field, do you think it is a wise option for me? "
celtictrader
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I did the STA course over a year ago. If you have the time and can afford a month without wages its a good opportunity to learn about the markets. The only teach STIR products so from that point of view its disappointing. The methods they teach dont allow for much creativity. Some of the guys teaching teh course are dinosaurs from the old floor days who can no longer cut it. Nonetheless, you have nothing to lose applying for it. Only do the course if its offered to you free of charge. Personnally I do not think its worth the few grand they charge.
crude_lover
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any grads on the course will no longer be doing fixed income its now oil spreads
Directional
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thats an interesting change in direction!
Some of the energy calendars have so much range they trade like outrights - what prompted them to make that switch? I'd have thought the risk factor would be exponentially larger too
Some of the energy calendars have so much range they trade like outrights - what prompted them to make that switch? I'd have thought the risk factor would be exponentially larger too
crude_lover
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apparantly the grads were losing more money on the fixed income spreads so from what i heard there doing all the very far months in the oil spread so theres not that much huge movement
celtictrader
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yes i find that strange myself !
oil speads as you say arbitrageur can often experience wild volatily.
maybe the course and people who taught it a year ago has changed. i know back tthen hey were not very cautious of risk.
oil speads as you say arbitrageur can often experience wild volatily.
maybe the course and people who taught it a year ago has changed. i know back tthen hey were not very cautious of risk.
celtictrader
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Crude lover - have you done the STA course ? How do you know this ?
crude_lover
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i have not done the sta course but i have friends who trade at schneider, out of interest arbitrageur do you trade at a proprietary house ?
fifty2aces
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Why are spreads seen as safer than outrights? Obviously outrights are more volatile, but surely the lack of volatility in spreads means you need to take bigger positions than you would on outrights, which would mean you'd still have big losses - losing a lower number of ticks, but a higher value per tick? Obviously the cynical answer would be that the arcade gains more in commsissions if you need to trade a lot of size due to low volatility.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.
crude_lover
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it is largely like you said to create the round turns for them but then they also see it as more locked in that adleast your have one side running in profit therefore the loss is a lot less than just running an outright and it going wrong
charliechan
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remember that sta also make money from clearing - thus spreads are good for them as someone eluded to earlier. they are also in the isv market, so they make money selling you the front end.
good to see an arcade moving away from stirs though - but i do hear that now the matching engine for stirs has changed at liffe, locals are now clearing up in stirs after several long hard lean years!
good to see an arcade moving away from stirs though - but i do hear that now the matching engine for stirs has changed at liffe, locals are now clearing up in stirs after several long hard lean years!
crude_lover
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well like i said there now on oil spreads but i heard theyve now got 30 or so grads doing that so there looking for another type of spread to get them all doing
What sort of strategies do these guys use? Do they tend to punt the weekly inventories, use technicals, leg in and out flies using an autospreader, or something completely different? :idea:
crude_lover
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From what i know they are using the autospreader to leg in on oil flys
miloesciro
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smellsbed
guys all that i know about them is tht smells bed, they don't take any risk or invest any money over their "traders"....they ask just money and if u make same they crg u if u lose it's just u......be careful to whom ask u money to let u work....the only reason at this world that give u a job is the need of one employer of one profile, not his money....
guys all that i know about them is tht smells bed, they don't take any risk or invest any money over their "traders"....they ask just money and if u make same they crg u if u lose it's just u......be careful to whom ask u money to let u work....the only reason at this world that give u a job is the need of one employer of one profile, not his money....
questroizac
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Schneider Trading Associates Professional Trading Program
Hi everyone,
I have just been invited to attend the schneiders associates trading program. I am not too sure what it's all about, as I am just starting out in trading. Apparently, looks like I have to pay for my seat on the trading floor. As well, the invitation letter goes on to mention that -"As all STA proprietary traders are self employed, you must be committed and able to support yourself financially both during the course and subsequently.", Could someone explain to me why, how, and when I will be making my money? Also, I believe there will be "a short mathematics test.", does anyone know what the test covers, what can I expect from the interview and how can I prepare, what skills do I need to brush on?
I will be more than grateful for your feedback.
Hi everyone,
I have just been invited to attend the schneiders associates trading program. I am not too sure what it's all about, as I am just starting out in trading. Apparently, looks like I have to pay for my seat on the trading floor. As well, the invitation letter goes on to mention that -"As all STA proprietary traders are self employed, you must be committed and able to support yourself financially both during the course and subsequently.", Could someone explain to me why, how, and when I will be making my money? Also, I believe there will be "a short mathematics test.", does anyone know what the test covers, what can I expect from the interview and how can I prepare, what skills do I need to brush on?
I will be more than grateful for your feedback.
Last edited:
There is absolutely no guarantee to make money. It will cost you about £1500 per month for the desk, so you will have to make that just to break even. Good luck, once you get going the desk fees are not so bad, but it will probably take about six months before you start breaking even, if you are any good
