prospreads.com

[SimonK]

There's so many things wrong with the Prospreads platform, I don't know where to start.

1) There is no "hold" button on the DOM ladder as per NinjaTrader, so it's a case of playing "Rocky chase the chicken" to enter your order at the right price.

2) If you hit the "Close All" button twice in quick succession by accident, it will actually reverse your trade. You won't know you're still in the market until you shut down the platform and re-open it.

3) On NinjaTrader I can set a predetermined stoploss and target strategy which is activated as soon as I enter an order on the DOM. This is very hand if I have to leave the room, knowing my stop and target are safe and one will cancel the other. There is no un-convoluted way to do this on Prospreads.

4) As accounts are denominated in GBP, there is a currency conversion done overnight if you have been trading $ based instruments. This means you are exposed to GBPUSD currency movements for the whole day on a trade that may well have been closed early in the morning. Yes, you can request your account is set to USD, but statements are still in GBP. A very confusing mess!

Don't even get me started on the commissions! 4x the amount a regular futures broker charges makes a huge impact if you are scalping for 5-10 pips

 

[riogordo]

SimonK

Sound like you prefer Ninja, so why not use Ninja. it is horses for courses, I have used different systems over the years and have been using PS for a few and had a few issues that i resolved by talking to the guys. One of the issues was the ladder and there is a sort of hold function.
Also I have my statement in EUR, so I am guessing you can have it is USD?
I agree that their general rates are not as good as a futures broker, but they are not a futures broker but a SB, so if you make money there is a clear tax advantage.

Have you contacted them re your issues?

 

[SimonK]

SimonK

Sound like you prefer Ninja, so why not use Ninja. it is horses for courses, I have used different systems over the years and have been using PS for a few and had a few issues that i resolved by talking to the guys. One of the issues was the ladder and there is a sort of hold function.
Also I have my statement in EUR, so I am guessing you can have it is USD?
I agree that their general rates are not as good as a futures broker, but they are not a futures broker but a SB, so if you make money there is a clear tax advantage.

Have you contacted them re your issues?

Yes I have done for some of the issues, but I am not a Beta Tester and object to being distracted from the actual task of trading.

What's a "sort of" hold button, btw? I like a clear, intuitive and easy to use platform and quite frankly Prospreads doesn't cut it.

I am moving my business to a futures broker and Ninja Trader.

 

[ProSpreads]

There's so many things wrong with the Prospreads platform, I don't know where to start.

1) There is no "hold" button on the DOM ladder as per NinjaTrader, so it's a case of playing "Rocky chase the chicken" to enter your order at the right price.

2) If you hit the "Close All" button twice in quick succession by accident, it will actually reverse your trade. You won't know you're still in the market until you shut down the platform and re-open it.

3) On NinjaTrader I can set a predetermined stoploss and target strategy which is activated as soon as I enter an order on the DOM. This is very hand if I have to leave the room, knowing my stop and target are safe and one will cancel the other. There is no un-convoluted way to do this on Prospreads.

4) As accounts are denominated in GBP, there is a currency conversion done overnight if you have been trading $ based instruments. This means you are exposed to GBPUSD currency movements for the whole day on a trade that may well have been closed early in the morning. Yes, you can request your account is set to USD, but statements are still in GBP. A very confusing mess!

Don't even get me started on the commissions! 4x the amount a regular futures broker charges makes a huge impact if you are scalping for 5-10 pips

Simon, Can i first apologies if you had issues with the platform which agreed can be difficult to get used to but 99% of our clients like the fact that it is completely configurable to their own needs rather than very basic, as for you points see if i can clear up some of these now

1) 'hold' button we as there is a patient on freezing the ladder/Dome the option that you could try is called 'sticky mouse' this is found in the 'tools' then 'options' and select the quick trade tab, with this enabled when you hover over a price on the ladder even though the ladder moves your mouse point will stay on the price
2) we have never heard about this ever happening and i have asked the tech guys to investigate, did you not call/live chat if you found yourself in a position that you did not know about?
3) what you could have done was submit a OCO order from the trade ticket option, we do have video's on how to place one of these order type
4) you could have had your statement denominated in USD if you had requested this, the platform however would have shown you a GBP balance

As for the spread charges, we do know that some of the products we offer do have large spread which we are addressing presently but a majority of our fixed spread costs are very competitive

If you require any further assistance please feel free to give us a call to discuss

regards

PS

 

[SimonK]

Simon, Can i first apologies if you had issues with the platform which agreed can be difficult to get used to but 99% of our clients like the fact that it is completely configurable to their own needs rather than very basic, as for you points see if i can clear up some of these now

1) 'hold' button we as there is a patient on freezing the ladder/Dome the option that you could try is called 'sticky mouse' this is found in the 'tools' then 'options' and select the quick trade tab, with this enabled when you hover over a price on the ladder even though the ladder moves your mouse point will stay on the price
2) we have never heard about this ever happening and i have asked the tech guys to investigate, did you not call/live chat if you found yourself in a position that you did not know about?
3) what you could have done was submit a OCO order from the trade ticket option, we do have video's on how to place one of these order type
4) you could have had your statement denominated in USD if you had requested this, the platform however would have shown you a GBP balance

As for the spread charges, we do know that some of the products we offer do have large spread which we are addressing presently but a majority of our fixed spread costs are very competitive

If you require any further assistance please feel free to give us a call to discuss

regards

PS

My answers as follows:

1. A hold button like this is much easier:
Hold button

2. Took me a few times to realise it was happening. As I have said, I have no intention of giving my time to debug a platform.

3. Why make things complicated when I can just do something like this...
Stops and targets

4. that's the source of confusion - mixing GBP and USD amounts on the platform, statements, etc, and having to request these things are setup once you find out whats going on, rather than being defaulted in the first place.

 

[rawrschach]

TT is full of **** and Ninja/CQG have static ladders.

CQG doesn't pay royalties either.

I'd happily pay a bit extra for a static ladder.

edit: TT may be full of **** re the static ladder but they have the best product out there

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . .
Don't even get me started on the commissions! 4x the amount a regular futures broker charges makes a huge impact if you are scalping for 5-10 pips . . .

"Spreads shouldn't be your primary concern. It should be speed of execution, slippage, spread widening and a whole host of other tricks that brokers play."

<wonder who said that?>

 

[rawrschach]

Speed of execution is ok at the market; spread widening is mirrored from the underlying.

The real problem with prospreads is execution of limit orders. You sit there in the queue and watch over half the depth trade, the price thickens up again and enough volume goes through to clear out the remaining back end of the queue but your order will still be sitting there because for some reason you've been chucked back to the end of the queue.

 

[SimonK]

"Spreads shouldn't be your primary concern. It should be speed of execution, slippage, spread widening and a whole host of other tricks that brokers play."

<wonder who said that?>

Not when your strategy uses a 5 pip stop and 5-10 pip target.

Btw, with a genuine futures feed, spread widening and broker tricks are not an issue.

 

[SimonK]

Speed of execution is ok at the market; spread widening is mirrored from the underlying.

The real problem with prospreads is execution of limit orders. You sit there in the queue and watch over half the depth trade, the price thickens up again and enough volume goes through to clear out the remaining back end of the queue but your order will still be sitting there because for some reason you've been chucked back to the end of the queue.

If your order is way back in the queue and you finally get filled, you got to wonder why you finally got filled! :whistling

 

[fibbinstarchi]

I heard from a prop trader that pro spreads dom is not the true market and it can't be trusted.

 

[rawrschach]

They provide liquidity from the real market with their own orders/depth overlaid.

Doesn't mean it can't be trusted. It mirrors the actual market.

 

[rawrschach]

If your order is way back in the queue and you finally get filled, you got to wonder why you finally got filled! :whistling

Irrelevant. You didn't understand what I said either.

The issue is that your place in the queue is not consistent. Possibly because you're trading through them as an intermediary - whenever an order is modified it is moved to the back of the queue so you get ****ed over by the fact that they're modifying their presence in the queue in the real market even though as an individual you're not.

 

[SimonK]

Irrelevant. You didn't understand what I said either.

The issue is that your place in the queue is not consistent. Possibly because you're trading through them as an intermediary - whenever an order is modified it is moved to the back of the queue so you get ****ed over by the fact that they're modifying their presence in the queue in the real market even though as an individual you're not.

I understood exactly what you said. However what I was hinting at is if your order does get filled at the back of the queue, you're probably trading in the wrong direction. Only stop orders will get you in quick enough.

 

[rawrschach]

Ya I know what you were hinting. The issue, however, is that they're ****ing with your execution.

So you end up not being filled when you should have been, then you chase the market around on the stupid ladder and lose a couple ticks on the trade.

 

[Visaria]

I don't think you guys understand that your limit orders etc are not actually being placed on an exchange. The only other third party that can see your limit order is another Prospreads client. Therefore you can only be filled when either another Prospreads client wants the same price as you (in the opposite direction) or if the underlying market trades through your price level.

 

[SpreadBeta]

I don't think you guys understand that your limit orders etc are not actually being placed on an exchange. The only other third party that can see your limit order is another Prospreads client. Therefore you can only be filled when either another Prospreads client wants the same price as you (in the opposite direction) or if the underlying market trades through your price level.

Visaria, Just so I understand what I think you are saying here and what it means to the spreadbetter (I will use equities as an example, but the principle applies to all products, Commidities, FX etc)....

Assume you are trading a FTSE250 share and it is trading at 400p-402p and there are 1000 shares on both the bid and the Ask in the LSE Market.

You place a limit order to Buy 5000 shares (i.e. £50/point) at 400p on the Prospreads platform, but they do not put the order thru to the LSE. Then later on a someone sells 1500 shares at Market on the LSE and the price trades thru 400p and the last 500 shares are filled at 399.5p, then (as you say prospreads is not putting your order into the market and the Market price HAS now traded THRU the 400 level will you get filled in all 5000 shares ? (i.e. Prospreads is therefore creating additional liquidity over and above the LSE ?)

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . .
The issue is that your place in the queue is not consistent. Possibly because you're trading through them as an intermediary - whenever an order is modified it is moved to the back of the queue so you get ****ed over by the fact that they're modifying their presence in the queue in the real market even though as an individual you're not.

Personally I hope they are internally crossing client orders as the client clearly benefits.

However, getting back to the lack of fills when you've progressed to the front of the queue. . . I also see this a lot (bund futures), probably more than 25% of the time in fact.

This could also be due to Prospreads having a limited number of "pipes" into Eurex. (Tbh, this will be the same for any broker unless you're trading as a local.)

Say I'm trying to buy a one-lot at the bid price and am 500th in the queue when I place my order.

400 lots get sold at the bid, and another 300 lots join the queue behind be. So I'm now 100th in a queue of 400.

BUT, if another client of Prospreads then also tries to buy 10 lots at the bid (ie the same price as me), AND ProSpreads directs that order via the pipe that my order was transmitted, Eurex treats the new order as an ammendment to my original one lot, my one lot is cancelled (ie I lose my place in the queue) and 11 lots are added to the end of the queue.

Moral of the story is that you should research market mechanics.

Note to Prospreads is that your real place in the queue should always be shown

Note also that this First In First Out (FIFO) methodology generally holds true for equity and long bond futures, STIRS have a differnt mothod of trade fill allocation.

 

[Visaria]

Visaria, Just so I understand what I think you are saying here and what it means to the spreadbetter (I will use equities as an example, but the principle applies to all products, Commidities, FX etc)....

Assume you are trading a FTSE250 share and it is trading at 400p-402p and there are 1000 shares on both the bid and the Ask in the LSE Market.

You place a limit order to Buy 5000 shares (i.e. £50/point) at 400p on the Prospreads platform, but they do not put the order thru to the LSE. Then later on a someone sells 1500 shares at Market on the LSE and the price trades thru 400p and the last 500 shares are filled at 399.5p, then (as you say prospreads is not putting your order into the market and the Market price HAS now traded THRU the 400 level will you get filled in all 5000 shares ? (i.e. Prospreads is therefore creating additional liquidity over and above the LSE ?)

First of all i don't trade shares with them. Secondly, i doubt if they use the LSE for anything! Anything they hedge they probably use an investment bank product especially made for them (i know this for a fact btw, not relating to Prospreads per se, but SBs in general).

I would say that in your example, you would be filled at 400p once the underlying price trades there, but your order is not reflected on any exchange.

Best thing would be if Prospreads could clear this matter up.

 

[rawrschach]

... if another client of Prospreads then also tries to buy 10 lots at the bid (ie the same price as me), AND ProSpreads directs that order via the pipe that my order was transmitted, Eurex treats the new order as an ammendment to my original one lot, my one lot is cancelled (ie I lose my place in the queue) and 11 lots are added to the end of the queue.

Moral of the story is that you should research market mechanics.

Ya that's what I said.

Visaria, if you're on the bid and the bid is being hit then the market has 'gone through' the price. PS has explicitly said that you can take liquidity from the actual market. If I'm 100th in the queue according to PS and 200 contracts trade but I don't get a fill they're full of ****.

What is the point of giving me an imaginary queue number?