President Bush, Oil and the Saudi talks

[Atilla]

Perhaps if you could give us some examples? If I had the choice I would prefer to live in the US. Of course you pay the price for liberalism, but generally if you don't do anything wrong - or untoward - you should be fine. There are a few states in the US I would avoid though.

1. Treatment of black people in US worse than treatment of women by the Saudis imo?
2. Can you find a similar example to match Abu Graib prison abuse?
3. Can you find a similar example to match Guantanamo Bay?
4. 600,000 dead
5. 2m refugees
6. Country destroyed in the name of democracy and freedom (could do with some in Saudi Arabia though - best not to go there I think)... :cheesy:
7. No WMDs
8. No nuclear purchase from Africa
9. No link to 9/11

10. Let's not mention the last 50 years plus of US CIA history and brutual regimes in Latin America...

I like the US been there lovely people. Beautiful country. Not sure if I would like to live there though.

I have nothing against the American people or the country. Just purely their brutal administration in pursuing their self interest.

Did I forget to mention the Kyota agreement - the one and only most polluting country (25% of world pollution with only about 1% of the popullation) not to sign the treaty.


Now perhaps you can tell me some of the MOST offensive aspects of the Saudis???

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Now perhaps you can tell me some of the MOST offensive aspects of the Saudis???

they eat with their fingers ?

their weather is hot ?

It's full of sand ?

they're richer than us ?

all offensive stuff in my eyes ..........:cheesy:

 

[Splitlink]

Isn't Barcelona next to the sea? The only thing to stop them setting up a large desalination plant is purely cost. The technology has been perfected ages ago, but the cost for one of these things is horrendous.

These are just temporary measures by the Spanish in reaction to a temporary/cyclical problem. If the problem becomes permanent then more drastic measures are needed.

They talked themselves into building a pipeline from the south which they want to start soon.

It rained very heavily ten days ago. The reservoirs filled from 25% to 38%. We live in hope!.

The trouble with taking water from the Ebro and bringing it up here is that the sea starts to encroach into the river and spoils the land with brackish water.

The locals, down there, don't want to give us any, for that reason. It's all politics, especially with Cataluña and Madrid.

 

[dcraig1]

1. Treatment of black people in US worse than treatment of women by the Saudis imo?
2. Can you find a similar example to match Abu Graib prison abuse?
3. Can you find a similar example to match Guantanamo Bay?
4. 600,000 dead
5. 2m refugees
6. Country destroyed in the name of democracy and freedom (could do with some in Saudi Arabia though - best not to go there I think)... :cheesy:
7. No WMDs
8. No nuclear purchase from Africa
9. No link to 9/11

10. Let's not mention the last 50 years plus of US CIA history and brutual regimes in Latin America...

I like the US been there lovely people. Beautiful country. Not sure if I would like to live there though.

I have nothing against the American people or the country. Just purely their brutal administration in pursuing their self interest.

Did I forget to mention the Kyota agreement - the one and only most polluting country (25% of world pollution with only about 1% of the popullation) not to sign the treaty.


Now perhaps you can tell me some of the MOST offensive aspects of the Saudis???

Atilla,

You omit some of the horrors commited by client states of the US, done with a nod and wink from their masters. There have recently been news articles about the slaughter of up to 100,000 people in Sth Korea in 1950 suspected of sympathies with the communist north. Commited by the Sth Korean police and military, it is impossible not to believe that the US command knew what was happing and just turned a blind eye to these events. The US was in command of the Sth Korean military at the time.

AP IMPACT: Thousands killed in 1950 by US's Korean ally - Yahoo! News

In Indonesia in the mid sixties about a half a million were killed. The US, UK, Australia turned a blind eye.

Regrettably it is not just Bush and his neocon mates. US foreign policy has been rotten to the core since WWII and in some instances prior to WWII.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla,

You omit some of the horrors commited by client states of the US, done with a nod and wink from their masters. There have recently been news articles about the slaughter of up to 100,000 people in Sth Korea in 1950 suspected of sympathies with the communist north. Commited by the Sth Korean police and military, it is impossible not to believe that the US command knew what was happing and just turned a blind eye to these events. The US was in command of the Sth Korean military at the time.

AP IMPACT: Thousands killed in 1950 by US's Korean ally - Yahoo! News

In Indonesia in the mid sixties about a half a million were killed. The US, UK, Australia turned a blind eye.

Regrettably it is not just Bush and his neocon mates. US foreign policy has been rotten to the core since WWII and in some instances prior to WWII.

Yes I concur whole heartedly. US foreign policy needs some serious dressing down.

With the dwindling of dollars and cash in the war chest I'm sure they'll come down a notch or two.

Sadly the rise of the Russians and Chineese powers not likely to be pretty. As with all things I think a perfectly compettitive world order is best. Oligopoly is preferable to Monopolistic structures. Balance of power is best imo.

 

[Gumping]

Interesting thought re: The Saudis.

I think the book is called Sleeping With the Devil by Robert Baer.

Apparently, Baer was in the CIA and operated in Saudi for them quite a bit. His story was that the House of Saud's grip on Saudi Arabia is reasonably tenuous (some kind of ethnic tension?) and that these terrorist groups are funded by the House of Saud so that they don't play revolutionary in Saudi. The money is obviously then used to blow up people in other countries.

And btw how are black people treated worse in the US than women are in Saudi?

Black people can walk on the street without chaperones, they can frequent public swimming baths, they have been allowed to vote in elections for decades and they aren't forced to wear veils in public.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Black people can walk on the street without chaperones, they can frequent public swimming baths, they have been allowed to vote in elections for decades and they aren't forced to wear veils in public.

and they can drive themselves.

and go to work

and go on holiday alone

I think one of the funniest interpretaions of the Koran is that women are not permitted to work. Yet the wife of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was a very successful businesswoman, somewhat older than him. And it was her second marriage (can't remember if she was a widow or divorcee, but it's ironic too that modern day muslims treat both as second class women)

 

[Gumping]

and they can drive themselves.

and go to work

and go on holiday alone

I think one of the funniest interpretaions of the Koran is that women are not permitted to work. Yet the wife of Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was a very successful businesswoman, somewhat older than him. And it was her second marriage (can't remember if she was a widow or divorcee, but it's ironic too that modern day muslims treat both as second class women)

Hehehe! Religion. Gotta love it

 

[Marwan2010]

but it's ironic too that modern day muslims treat both as second class women)

TOTALLY agree. Being a Muslim I have seen this happening, In some parts of the Muslim world, the women are really suffering.
in fact majority of the Muslim women population suffer, and that is sad,

 

[grantx]

The US need the Saudis more than the Saudis need the US. And the US know it. There can be little doubt reading all the reports from various news agencies that relations have certainly turned frosty.

What can the US supply Saudi which the Saudis can't get anywhere else. Sure the US has a base there but I think this more for the US's strategic benefit rather than asssiting an ally. The Saudi ruler made an oblique (or direct?) reference to the US's presence in Iraq as being a factor in the high price of oil, ie no oil coming out. I would suggest we are seeing a slow but gradual consolidation of the muslim countries.

Grant.

 

[Atilla]

The US need the Saudis more than the Saudis need the US. And the US know it. There can be little doubt reading all the reports from various news agencies that relations have certainly turned frosty.

What can the US supply Saudi which the Saudis can't get anywhere else. Sure the US has a base there but I think this more for the US's strategic benefit rather than asssiting an ally. The Saudi ruler made an oblique (or direct?) reference to the US's presence in Iraq as being a factor in the high price of oil, ie no oil coming out. I would suggest we are seeing a slow but gradual consolidation of the muslim countries.

Grant.

I don't think so Grant.

Saudi's not too fond of Shias imo. They like some power to be given to the Sunnis. I think we have seen some of this take place already but Sunnis not likely to short change the country to the US like the Shias.

Unless you mean the ME countries have realised the Americans are the pooh stirrers in the region and conflict benefits no one and sooner they rid the area of Americans the better. I've still yet to see Al Qaida fighters in Iraq which the US always refer to... US and Al Qaida awfully looking like the one and the same body to me.

 

[grantx]

Atilla,

I agree - the Saudis aren't too keen on the Shias but what binds the sunni and shia is their hatred for Israel, which therefore isolates the US in any shia/sunni sphere. I would guess the Koran has a greater binding influence than any seperation based on interpretation (excluding jihadist or extreme interpretation).

Did you know the war in Afghanistan has been going on for eight years? I didn't realise that.

Grant.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla,

I agree - the Saudis aren't too keen on the Shias but what binds the sunni and shia is their hatred for Israel, which therefore isolates the US in any shia/sunni sphere. I would guess the Koran has a greater binding influence than any seperation based on interpretation (excluding jihadist or extreme interpretation).

Did you know the war in Afghanistan has been going on for eight years? I didn't realise that.

Grant.

Now you mention it it is a surprise. Russians were in there for about 10-12 years before too and they left with their tails between their legs too.

I'm not sure I understand the objective of that war other than a rear front to attack Iran... I suppose it could be drug related...

 

[rathcoole_exile]

I'm not sure I understand the objective of that war ... I suppose it could be drug related...

you're right, that Bush gets pretty wacked out sometimes, heaven know what decisions he's making in that state ........

 

[Gumping]

Now you mention it it is a surprise. Russians were in there for about 10-12 years before too and they left with their tails between their legs too.

I'm not sure I understand the objective of that war other than a rear front to attack Iran... I suppose it could be drug related...

Wasn't that one (Afghanistan) about an oil pipeline from Iran to China? I remember this was the big news when 9/11 happened.

 

[Atilla]

Wasn't that one (Afghanistan) about an oil pipeline from Iran to China? I remember this was the big news when 9/11 happened.

Possibly. You may well be right as a strike on Iran would certainly cripple China's oil supplies.

However, in the free market oil price would simply shoot up wrecking the the whole global economy and rescuing the planet from climate change I guess.

Catch 22 imo. USA kind of shot itself in the foot if not in the balls by invading Iraq... Shock and awe indeed...

Who recalls some commentators quoting oil would fall back to $16 a barrel after touching $45... LOL

Nice one eh???:cheesy:

 

[0007]

Atilla,

I agree - the Saudis aren't too keen on the Shias but what binds the sunni and shia is their hatred for Israel, which therefore isolates the US in any shia/sunni sphere. I would guess the Koran has a greater binding influence than any seperation based on interpretation (excluding jihadist or extreme interpretation).

Did you know the war in Afghanistan has been going on for eight years? I didn't realise that.

Grant.

We kicked off in 1838! - I didn't know that (knew we were there in the 2nd decade 19th C) ref First Anglo-Afghan War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like no quick wins there.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

there was a documentary about British involvement in 19th century Afghanistan and our attempts to secure the passage into India of the vital trade routes.
It was called Carry On Up The Khyber presented by that eminent historian Professor Sidney James .....

 

[Gumping]

there was a documentary about British involvement in 19th century Afghanistan and our attempts to secure the passage into India of the vital trade routes.
It was called Carry On Up The Khyber presented by that eminent historian Professor Sidney James .....

Bemner Bird anf fortuen did something similar too - very informative!

 

[grantx]

RC,

The enemy being the Khasi of Kaliabar and Bungdit Din (look at the cast names- brilliant):

Carry On... Up the Khyber (1968)

Grant.