Post your bad spread bet fills here, research needed!

[Truth Seeker]

Keeping this thread up??

TS, IMO what you should be doing (apart from just stopping trading with CMC if they're so bad) is posting more screenshots or video-ed trades. Hard evidence is what we need.

I missed a couple of trades playing with the animals, I'm not doing that again. If I come across another trade rejection/market closed/suspended again I will screen shot it, as I can't be bothered to video etc because it takes time, and I'm about making money first.
I'm sure it will happen again, the bad fills, the example I posted as I stated but people on here refused to understand was that slippage occured during a normal pace, no news, and as they make their own market it shouldn't have happened and it worked out to be 14.3% of my trades that day. That's really bad, but people here don't get it? That's why I'm taking a back seat, as you can't teach the stupid, you can't and shouldn't argue with the ignorant, and there's plenty of them around here. I would say hardly any of the ones who attacked me actually trade, because if they did, they would have understood my words. I'm sure there are intelligent people here who have read my points and taken note. I'm sure there have been members who haven't posted because of the fear of being attacked. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour.

 

[Jon41]

...I'm sure there are intelligent people here who have read my points and taken note. I'm sure there have been members who haven't posted because of the fear of being attacked. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour.

Nope, not through fear of being attacked. Fear of sounding as ridiculously insane as you do? That's more like it.

Wise man once said: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

 

[gedward3]

Guys never argue with idiots as they will beat you on experience and bring you down
to their level.

TS has opened a worthwhile thread here and i think this will resurface time and time again and there have been some good comments here from all sides which will benefit newer members and existing members in time to come where they can post their gripes which they believe are real.

Ged

I missed a couple of trades playing with the animals, I'm not doing that again. If I come across another trade rejection/market closed/suspended again I will screen shot it, as I can't be bothered to video etc because it takes time, and I'm about making money first.
I'm sure it will happen again, the bad fills, the example I posted as I stated but people on here refused to understand was that slippage occured during a normal pace, no news, and as they make their own market it shouldn't have happened and it worked out to be 14.3% of my trades that day. That's really bad, but people here don't get it? That's why I'm taking a back seat, as you can't teach the stupid, you can't and shouldn't argue with the ignorant, and there's plenty of them around here. I would say hardly any of the ones who attacked me actually trade, because if they did, they would have understood my words. I'm sure there are intelligent people here who have read my points and taken note. I'm sure there have been members who haven't posted because of the fear of being attacked. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Here's an example of a mis-leading ad, and how it can be stopped...

'Misleading' Tesco sausage ad banned - Yahoo!

 

[wackypete2]

What does that have to do with getting slipped 3 sausages, err, pips I mean?
You really do have issues.

Peter

 

[francisfinley]

What does that have to do with getting slipped 3 sausages, err, pips I mean?
You really do have issues.

Peter

what i think he is showing is the chasm between the retail world and the retail financial way. They are simply universes away.

However, most on this forum (and the whole bloody operation) are keeping the pretence alive that the city et chums are some sort of mystique and things are done a certain way because "thats how the city operates"

It is those who have issues my friend.

 

[Shakone]

The intention of the thread seems good to me. But it's still lacking a lot of evidence. I've had trades rejected repeatedly, been put on dealer referral, had trades not filled when they should have been, markets unavailable for unknown reasons and platform freezes from more than one spreadbet. I don't have any screenshots as it's some time ago. It happens. With some spreadbets more than others, and some people say with certain strategies more than others.

If something seems to good to be true, then there's a good chance some games are being played. How is it that Worldspreads can offer zero spreads for 'free', while experienced traders pay commission in the real market? How is it that someone can offer spreads on the DOW less than 1, commission free?

The result is that you move to a better broker to trade with your main account.

Some of the tactics employed by spreadbet companies are detrimental to the clients' trading. People should be made aware of this, if they aren't already. It's also common sense. It IS 'unsportsmanlike' to put you on dealer referral or continually rejecting trades, and people should be made aware which companies do it, but it's not illegal from the companies standpoint or anything. In a way, you can't really blame them.

The main problem I have with the thread is the targeting of slippage, rather than other more damaging issues. The way that I trade, I will receive slippage on a large % of my orders, more than the 14% truth seeker mentions. I don't trade with a spreadbet firm. This is not a problem at all, because

1) I also receive positive slippage on a large % of my limit orders too,
2) The slippage is quite small,
3) I can typically control the slippage I'm willing to accept via stop limit orders.

So slippage isn't as big a thing as you're making out in my humble opinion. Even during quiet times of the market, depending on how you enter, you can expect to receive some slippage quite often. That doesn't mean the advertised spreads are wrong.

Of course I'd love to have a spreadbet with the spreads and execution I have with my current broker, with no commission and all tax free. But that's probably too much to ask from anyone. No slippage is too much to ask from anyone, as are fixed tight spreads. Might be better if you focused on more reasonable changes that need to be made. Rejecting trades, closing markets when they're open and being put on dealer referral are far more damaging in my opinion.

 

[francisfinley]

The intention of the thread seems good to me. But it's still lacking a lot of evidence. I've had trades rejected repeatedly, been put on dealer referral, had trades not filled when they should have been, markets unavailable for unknown reasons and platform freezes from more than one spreadbet. I don't have any screenshots as it's some time ago. It happens. With some spreadbets more than others, and some people say with certain strategies more than others.

If something seems to good to be true, then there's a good chance some games are being played. How is it that Worldspreads can offer zero spreads for 'free', while experienced traders pay commission in the real market? How is it that someone can offer spreads on the DOW less than 1, commission free?

The result is that you move to a better broker to trade with your main account.

Some of the tactics employed by spreadbet companies are detrimental to the clients' trading. People should be made aware of this, if they aren't already. It's also common sense. It IS 'unsportsmanlike' to put you on dealer referral or continually rejecting trades, and people should be made aware which companies do it, but it's not illegal from the companies standpoint or anything. In a way, you can't really blame them.

The main problem I have with the thread is the targeting of slippage, rather than other more damaging issues. The way that I trade, I will receive slippage on a large % of my orders, more than the 14% truth seeker mentions. I don't trade with a spreadbet firm. This is not a problem at all, because

1) I also receive positive slippage on a large % of my limit orders too,
2) The slippage is quite small,
3) I can typically control the slippage I'm willing to accept via stop limit orders.

So slippage isn't as big a thing as you're making out in my humble opinion. Even during quiet times of the market, depending on how you enter, you can expect to receive some slippage quite often. That doesn't mean the advertised spreads are wrong.

Of course I'd love to have a spreadbet with the spreads and execution I have with my current broker, with no commission and all tax free. But that's probably too much to ask from anyone. No slippage is too much to ask from anyone, as are fixed tight spreads. Might be better if you focused on more reasonable changes that need to be made. Rejecting trades, closing markets when they're open and being put on dealer referral are far more damaging in my opinion.

then don't tell us who do, what we should focus on.


thanks.

 

[Ross Spur]

<<How is it that Worldspreads can offer zero spreads for 'free', while experienced traders pay commission in the real market?>>

Because their platform requires you to select buy or sell before the trade is actioned.

 

[tar]

<<How is it that Worldspreads can offer zero spreads for 'free', while experienced traders pay commission in the real market?>>

Because their platform requires you to select buy or sell before the trade is actioned.

plus

more than 80% of the clients will lose so i don't think it will make that difference for the broker to have 1 point spread or zero spreads , i know that's the broker edge but i think spread betting is different from the fixed odds business where the edge is very important to the bookie , in spread betting i don't think the spread is what making clients lose , it helps but it is not the main reason , how about running losers for ever , cutting profits quick , slippage , gaps , revenge trading , ridiculous high leverage ... etc etc .These days SB firms are making more money compared to years back when they had wide spreads . The only problem with zero spreads is scalpers , they will be very active in and out and if they control their losses they will definitely make money but the majority of the clients will still lose ...

 

[Truth Seeker]

The intention of the thread seems good to me. But it's still lacking a lot of evidence. I've had trades rejected repeatedly, been put on dealer referral, had trades not filled when they should have been, markets unavailable for unknown reasons and platform freezes from more than one spreadbet. I don't have any screenshots as it's some time ago. It happens. With some spreadbets more than others, and some people say with certain strategies more than others.

If something seems to good to be true, then there's a good chance some games are being played. How is it that Worldspreads can offer zero spreads for 'free', while experienced traders pay commission in the real market? How is it that someone can offer spreads on the DOW less than 1, commission free?

The result is that you move to a better broker to trade with your main account.

Some of the tactics employed by spreadbet companies are detrimental to the clients' trading. People should be made aware of this, if they aren't already. It's also common sense. It IS 'unsportsmanlike' to put you on dealer referral or continually rejecting trades, and people should be made aware which companies do it, but it's not illegal from the companies standpoint or anything. In a way, you can't really blame them.

The main problem I have with the thread is the targeting of slippage, rather than other more damaging issues. The way that I trade, I will receive slippage on a large % of my orders, more than the 14% truth seeker mentions. I don't trade with a spreadbet firm. This is not a problem at all, because

1) I also receive positive slippage on a large % of my limit orders too,
2) The slippage is quite small,
3) I can typically control the slippage I'm willing to accept via stop limit orders.

So slippage isn't as big a thing as you're making out in my humble opinion. Even during quiet times of the market, depending on how you enter, you can expect to receive some slippage quite often. That doesn't mean the advertised spreads are wrong.

Of course I'd love to have a spreadbet with the spreads and execution I have with my current broker, with no commission and all tax free. But that's probably too much to ask from anyone. No slippage is too much to ask from anyone, as are fixed tight spreads. Might be better if you focused on more reasonable changes that need to be made. Rejecting trades, closing markets when they're open and being put on dealer referral are far more damaging in my opinion.

I agree with a lot you said and I should have had a better title for this thread (like my later added signature). We cover every problem here, and again, I agree that suspending/closing the market and rejecting trades is a huge problem and that is why I and others have provided screen shot proof of this going on when the real markets have been running smoothly.
Thanks also for educating wacky pete2 the reasoning of my advertising ban post, I think he has trouble grasping the discussion and importance of this thread.
I still say the advertising of tiny or zero threads is misleading and should and will be looked into. We need an outside company to audit the actual spreads being given then force the spreadbet companies to advertise through these findings, e.g, 0.7-3.7 pip spread typically, and 3.7-40 pips in busy times. Also market closure/trade rejections need to be recorded and investigated, and if it occurs to individual style traders (scalpers) or just when the spread bet firm chooses that there is a time in the market where they have realised they lose a lot money.

 

[gle101]

I agree with a lot you said and I should have had a better title for this thread (like my later added signature). We cover every problem here, and again, I agree that suspending/closing the market and rejecting trades is a huge problem and that is why I and others have provided screen shot proof of this going on when the real markets have been running smoothly.
Thanks also for educating wacky pete2 the reasoning of my advertising ban post, I think he has trouble grasping the discussion and importance of this thread.
I still say the advertising of tiny or zero threads is misleading and should and will be looked into. We need an outside company to audit the actual spreads being given then force the spreadbet companies to advertise through these findings, e.g, 0.7-3.7 pip spread typically, and 3.7-40 pips in busy times. Also market closure/trade rejections need to be recorded and investigated, and if it occurs to individual style traders (scalpers) or just when the spread bet firm chooses that there is a time in the market where they have realised they lose a lot money.

Sorry, I can't say that it is a huge problem trading SB these days. In fact I am quite impressed by the way they have improved over the last year. I got a feeling you haven't been in this game that long. But it seems like you are getting more balanced view on things, that is good. This is probably due to the quite a few experienced traders posting their viewpoints on this thread. Yes I agree the title was a little bit of a hasty decision.

 

[uk dave]

Sorry, I can't say that it is a huge problem trading SB these days. In fact I am quite impressed by the way they have improved over the last year. I got a feeling you haven't been in this game that long. But it seems like you are getting more balanced view on things, that is good. This is probably due to the quite a few experienced traders posting their viewpoints on this thread. Yes I agree the title was a little bit of a hasty decision.

Didn't old tseeker say he has traded for 11 years? He doesn't come across new to me and I've been around for a few years. Ye sb has got better because it had to, but I reckon it could improve a lot more myself and I think most who day trade with sb would agree if they trade seriously

 

[Jimmy Lulz]

Didn't old tseeker say he has traded for 11 years? He doesn't come across new to me and I've been around for a few years. Ye sb has got better because it had to, but I reckon it could improve a lot more myself and I think most who day trade with sb would agree if they trade seriously

Quite a few people seem to think you and Truth Seeker are one and the same.

 

[G.O.A.T]

Quite a few people seem to think you and Truth Seeker are one and the same.

Oh no,no,no Jim bob that can't possibly be the true. You see, it is clearly against the forum rules and therefore will result in an immediate ban.

 

[G.O.A.T]

Many many thanks for sharing this

please will you report to your local A+E dept. and ask them to remove all your fingers

 

[uk dave]

Quite a few people seem to think you and Truth Seeker are one and the same.

Lolol, I will be anyone u like for the right money!!!!

 

[riogordo]

At the end of the day it is like booking a flight with Ryanair or BA. With Ryanair they make their money from a load extra's which annoy many people, just like slippage and requotes. If you use BA then you will normally pay more for your flights but at an all included price.
It is a personal choice. I use Prospreads, and yes the spreads can be wider (not always), but I just got fed up with all the re-quotes on other SB's. Am I worse off? Who knows, but I am less angry and have stopped shouting at the screen.

 

[Truth Seeker]

I have to admit you have got me there jimmy~I'm in fact PC from CMC, I invented this user name to bring attention to my thread, to throw in a balance of both negative and positive discussions because if there were all positive comments even the most slow amongst us would have been alerted, and it also helped my advertising stream, as all advertising good or bad always increases revenue, as it's a funny old world we live in.
Say hello to your other self today for me

 

[Truth Seeker]

Just making a note of this reply to jimmy.

Hi Jimmy,

Have a feeling this will be a long answer so here goes.

Firstly, if you look at the flows of a spread bet company the major flows of trades are in non marketable amounts, if somebody does a £1 pp on the UK 100 then we cannot hedge that even if we wanted to so we have no choice. we have to aggregate. If we aggregate then there is no guarantee we will make on that aggregated position. However, against that aggregated position we have resting orders that can off set our losses and cap our profits so we can build our risk profile around the aggregated position, against our resting stops and limits and our real time trading clients.

As the markets move the aggregated position will just keep getting bigger and smaller and eventually once it gets to size we can and do hedge it. It is impossible for us to hedge every individual trade primarily because of the size.

If we have a big winning client and lets say he is seller of UK 100 and our aggregated position is made up of buyers then we use the big winning client to hedge our aggregated position. if the big winning client is going the same way as our aggregated position we simply dma the trade or cover it in the markets.

I do not know how some of the smaller companies operate and I have no interest. What we do is operate a flow model. The bigger the flows the less the risk, the more our positions get netted off naturally and the more resting orders we get to offset any upside or down side.

amongst our aggregated positions we have winning clients and we have losing clients. we do not care, we really only care about our aggregated positions, our risk reward against the markets and against our resting orders.

I can tell you that two days ago we handled around 200,000 orders in one day resulting in around 160,000 trades. Most of those trades were non marketable amounts. but we love the flows and being an ex forex trader to me all I want are flows, flows and more flows.
I am one of the few ex bank traders that is running a spread bet company and that is how I have set this company up.

If you ask me do I want winning clients or losing clients, I will answer you honestly.
Every time i would want WINNING clients. Why? because I can manage their flows to make money, I could buy positions ahead of the flows, I can manage the resting orders and if clients make money then they trade more and more and more.

That is the truth of it all. If you look at it we are offering our clients an outstanding service. We supply,
1. 0.7 spreads on non-marketable amounts
2. low margins
3. real time trading software,
4. real time back office,
5. real time charts, news, 24 hour access.

By managing flows we need automated execution, non dealer intervention and aggregation software to measure var and resting orders. A lot of our risk management is automatic.

At the end of the day this company is run by an ex trader from a banking back ground.
The more flow we get the more money we make and at the end of the day so long as that aggregated position keeps moving up and down we can make our money. Do I care whether our clients win or lose. Yes I prefer them to win. see above.

At the end of the day, does it really matter to you as a client what the sb company does with your flows. you are taking on the markets, we are delivering tight real time spreads, automated execution. so long as you are happy with that, then concentrate on the markets and make money.

remember spread betting is a leveraged product, you should understand the risk before trading.
thanks pc

I find this latest statement very interesting because if PC wants his clients to win (lol) then why do CMC reject trades, why do they close/suspend the markets around high volatile times when they never used to? Why the slippage in their favour, and I don't mean the 14.3% slippage out of one trading session I recorded.