New PC system

Atilla I agree with you on post 24 if It was a gaming PC. :)

If its just a stand alone trading unit why do you need any thing like the spec you describe :?:

For me a trading PC is about consistent performance & stability. I agree with mr.marcus about single core chips and pc3200 ram rather that the latter duel core & ddr II. As for graphics cards, if your just using 2d trading platforms any basic AGP /PCI 128mb dual DVI/ VGA is fine :?:

Didn't Esignal had some issuss with the newer AMD chips :?:
 
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mr.marcus said:
......not a porn trawler.....maaaannn.damn even the simplest conversation on this board is tuff.....haha......cheers.

oops :LOL:
 

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Thats exactly what I would of done if I needed another unit...:)

There's a slight miss conception about units bought from PC world ,currys ,comet ect ect. That people are getting substandard components. Every time i've opened one up they've always had asus or gigabyte boards with Samsung RAM plus an hitachi or seagate HD. The only thing i would change is the CPU cooling fan to an after market one, due to the extended running trading units are expected to do.

With those type of core components, they make a stable base to work with , to add or tweak components.The ASUS/Gigabyte boards are good for over clocking to maximise even more bang for buck keeping your business overheads to a minimum.

:)
 
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Bez said:
Thats exactly what I would of done if I needed another unit...:)

There's a slight miss conception about units bought from PC world ,currys ,comet ect ect. That people are getting substandard components. Every time i've opened one up they've always had asus or gigabyte boards with Samsung RAM plus an hitachi or seagate HD. The only thing i would change is the CPU cooling fan to an after market one, due to the extended running trading units are expected to do.

With those type of core components, they make a stable base to work with , to add or tweak components.The ASUS/Gigabyte boards are good for over clocking to maximise even more bang for buck keeping your business overheads to a minimum.

:)

As before all good advice. Nothing further to add. I suppose it ultimately depends on your budget and use and ones ability to open up and get personal with PCs, which isn't everyones liking.

Sorry if I have upset people with my remarks it's not intentional. Perhaps it's my IT background and the headaches security, viruses and patch management causes.

Once bitten twice shy...



PS. I've just noticed there is no NIC on those specks from Cubies...
 
to clear and add a few points:

1) todays graphics cards are optimised for 3D graphics, hence they have hardware matrix calculations, very fast chips, multiple parallel vertex shaders, etc. . . . that's what the gamers want. They are an amazingly complex piece of engineering designed to render 3D scenery. Charting is 2D, hence none of their internal hardware features of the 3D graphics cards are used. For this reason alone ATI and nVidia cards are awful for 2D. I've got one of the top of the range nVidia cards on my machine, but when I compared it to a cheap Matrox card I bought off ebay the results were astounding. For 2D I personally think that Matrox cards wins hands down because they specialise in that market, they even have a quad head (4 monitor output cards) if I remember correctly. You also have to bear in mind that if you go with ATI or nVidia based cards they get noisy and hot (read: distracting when you are trading). The top end gamer's graphics cards have very, very big fans (read: very noisy). By contrast some of the Matrox cards have no fans!

2) firewall and anti virus are only need if you accidentally invite things in that you shouldn't. Note the "invite" there. If you surf dodgy sites you are bound to get some silly trojan software downloaded to your machine that could f*ck it up (or you waste a few days trying to track it down and remove it). Prevention is better than cure, so don't surf these dodgy sites, and if you do, do it on another machine that runs a different operating system and/or is on a different network, that way the possibility of harm done is minimalised. An Apple imac/mac mini is pretty handy for this sort of need since there are very few viruses for Mac OS X at the moment (don't worry they are working on it), but the idea is to have a machine around to use that you don't mind "losing" since it won't effect your main trading.

3) the 24" dell monitor can be bought for about £552 off www.scan.co.uk. It's a very good monitor, just make sure that your graphics card can handle it since it is 1920 x 1080 pixels, over 2 million pixels. If I had my way, and the space, I would use 2 24" dells on a dual monitor Matrox card, rather than have 4 19" monitors - but then again each to their own. The Dell 30" is interesting, and you need to make sure that the graphics cards you buy for it can handle it, 2560 x 1600 means over 4 million pixels! Stupendous value at only £1082 or thereabouts, but the quality of the display is not as good as the 24" which is why most people go for the 24". But if you want real estate there's not better option, just make sure the graphics cards can handle it.

4) dual core or not, generally speaking most PCs are over powered anyway. It's just intel's way of pushing technology forward so they can charge more, obsolete stuff always becomes cheaper. The dual core stuff is good if you want to run multiple applications: play a DVD, surf, chart, etc . . . at the same time, it gives you capacity to spare. But if you are trading why do you need to run those other things? Compared to other programs in, general charting is actually computationally unintensive. Hence if your computer is slowing down when you run Ensign or ESignal you have something wrong with your configuration

5) I tend not to use the latest software, unless I trust the vendor. For that reason alone I won't be touching Windows Vista any time soon. I am also reluctant to download latest drivers since there might not have been enough testing done for them. Don't try to be some company's Guinea Pig (even though I like Guinea pigs)

6) Noise is sometimes overlooked, but believe me it can be a major factor. Having a machine that makes no/very little noise is a god send. When building a machine you can buy lower noise fans even though you pay more for them, they are worth it.

My set up

- windows XP professional, with latest service pack installed
- firewall and anti-virus disabled
- intel dual core 1.8 GHz
- 1 Gig Ram
- ATI graphics card 1950
- 19" (1024 x 1280) illyama monitor with 21" Samsung monitor (1600 x 1200)
- Microsoft natural keyboard and mouse
- 2 SATA hard drives
- DVD drive
- low noise fans
- firefox for general browsing
- microsoft internet explorer for logging onto finspreads
- Ensign software for charting
- DTN datafeed
- ADSL modem and router

Of course if you have ADSL problems there's nothing you can do apart from phoning up the spread betting company to close your positions if you need to. ADSL does not have a service level agreement attached to it, this means that if there are glitches or the line goes down the supplier is not obliged to fix it immediately, although of course it will get fixed eventually.
 
mr.marcus said:
....yes bez you are correct....on graphics....ram and single core......i just picked up some p4 3.4 machines from pc world..with xp pro....added a gig of ram...to make it 2 gig...added a 256mb dual dvi......to make a single core p 3.4 2 gig ram....4 monitor machine for 410....this is the perfect machine for running with esignal.

you are right....some amd chips dont run with esignal well if at all

this is about creating the perfect machine for the environment ...i was assuming because it is a trading board ...it would be a pro trading machine....not a porn trawler.....maaaannn.damn even the simplest conversation on this board is tuff.....haha......cheers.

Well boss man, I did try and warn you but you will insist on trying to help out :).

You is of course correct. Horses for courses. I do sometimes wonder if the likes of you and UBS, ABN, Merrills, ING, SG, JPM, etc have got it all wrong. Perhaps they should buy their boxes first and then figure out what to put on them. hmmmmm.
 
stoic said:
2) firewall and anti virus are only need if you accidentally invite things in that you shouldn't.

This absolutely not true and quite frankly dangerous misinformation. If there is any process listening on a TCP port (on whatever operating system you care to name) there is a potential point of attack. If you want to share a printer for example, something has to listen on a port for print requests. There are any number of other examples and they are ALL potential points of attack usually by buffer overflow exploits.

A few years ago a couple of the most prevalent virii propagated by attacking some vulnerability in some Windows RPC service. This has got nothing to do with executing email attachments or visiting dodgy web sites.

Things have somewhat improved with fewer services listening for TCP connection requests being enabled by default, but it is impossible to absolutely guarantee that there is no vulnerability in any process that listens for and accepts network connection requests.

I'll repeat this again. There are modes of attack that have very little to do with user behavior.
 
stoic said:
to clear and add a few points:

1) todays graphics cards are optimised for 3D graphics, hence they have hardware matrix calculations, very fast chips, multiple parallel vertex shaders, etc. . . . that's what the gamers want. They are an amazingly complex piece of engineering designed to render 3D scenery. Charting is 2D, hence none of their internal hardware features of the 3D graphics cards are used. For this reason alone ATI and nVidia cards are awful for 2D. I've got one of the top of the range nVidia cards on my machine, but when I compared it to a cheap Matrox card I bought off ebay the results were astounding. For 2D I personally think that Matrox cards wins hands down because they specialise in that market, they even have a quad head (4 monitor output cards) if I remember correctly. You also have to bear in mind that if you go with ATI or nVidia based cards they get noisy and hot (read: distracting when you are trading). The top end gamer's graphics cards have very, very big fans (read: very noisy). By contrast some of the Matrox cards have no fans!

IMHO the best cards for charting purposes are what as known as "workstation 2D cards". These include Matrox G400, g550, G650 etc. However Nvidia and ATI also have a range of such cards.

Other options are Nvidia NVS 280, NVS 285 (both dual head), NVS 400 (quad) and newer NVS 440 (I think quad). They are all fanless and low power. I have three NVS280s and they have excellent image quality and decent performance. You can pick up the dual head cards at very good prices on eBay.

ATI also make similar cards. I have no experience of these but there is no reason to think that they would not be equally suitable.
 
It should be pretty obvious that there is no perfect trading computer. It entirely depends on what you are using it for.

For example if you just want to run for example Quotetracker with half a dozen charts open, then just about anything will do the job. The most important things is decent screens so your eyes don't drop out of your head.

On the other hand, if you are running real time scans over a large universe of stocks you might be well advised to get a reasonably high end dual core machine.
 
If i'm using AMD chips in my trading stations, then its ATI cards all the way, due to them being far more stable together.If its Intel based Nvidia is the one to go for.....:)
 
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Bez said:
If i'm using AMD chips in my trading stations, then its ATI cards all the way, due to them being far more stable together.If its Intel based Nvidia is the one to go for.....:)

I'd like to see some hard evidence of this. As Nvidia have for a long time owned the high ground in chipsets for motherboards for AMD processors it seems unlikely to me that this is the case.
 
dcraig1 said:
I'd like to see some hard evidence of this. As Nvidia have for a long time owned the high ground in chipsets for motherboards for AMD processors it seems unlikely to me that this is the case.

I think both ATI and Nvidia are decent manufacturers. They tend to leap frog each other so it depends on timing and their latest offering. I suppose a bit like Intel and AMD.
 
I recently had a trading P C built ....2xNvidia graphics....running 4 x tft 19" wide-screen

Total cost ....inc screens.....£1250....very reasonable I thought :D
 
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Its just a general consensus you get among the more harder core gaming / overclocking community who take these things to the next level of hardcoreness :D...Spend a few hours lurking around the gamers & over clockers boards you soon get the idea.

I've also had experience with the different chip/card characteristics when using certain set ups in trading stations.

Its nothing scientific just past experience...:)
 
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I was thinking of getting a 42" LCD TV to stick on my desktop so I could see my charts from the other end of the garden, but my Mrs suggested it would be better and cheaper if I went to the opticians instead...
 
On occasion I wonder why I come to this BB with all the pointless bickering that ensues. Then I come to a thread like this and I see why it is worthwhile.
Thanks for all the contributions , I can see you all have vastly more experience with this stuff than I do ,but at least now I am in a much better position to know the questions that I need to be answered in setting this system up.
Once again , thanks.
 
dcraig1 said:
This absolutely not true and quite frankly dangerous misinformation. If there is any process listening on a TCP port (on whatever operating system you care to name) there is a potential point of attack. If you want to share a printer for example, something has to listen on a port for print requests. There are any number of other examples and they are ALL potential points of attack usually by buffer overflow exploits.

A few years ago a couple of the most prevalent virii propagated by attacking some vulnerability in some Windows RPC service. This has got nothing to do with executing email attachments or visiting dodgy web sites.

Things have somewhat improved with fewer services listening for TCP connection requests being enabled by default, but it is impossible to absolutely guarantee that there is no vulnerability in any process that listens for and accepts network connection requests.

I'll repeat this again. There are modes of attack that have very little to do with user behavior.

I take the large numbers context. Yes, there are modes of attack through different ports that the user will not be aware of. My stance on that is that there are so many computers out there on the internet that for you to be attacked via such a thing is, to put it bluntly, very unlucky. Most hackers/programs would try to attack sites/machines of worth, which is why large companies have a more stringent security policy. Also some of the recent ADSL modems have built in firewalls that block these ports. I also wouldn't dream of putting a Windows RPC service on my machine, that's just asking for it.

You also got to see it from the point of view of the people who write these viruses/spamware. What is it that they want out of you? If you have nothing of much worth on your machines then they would be wasting their time.

dcraig1 said:
For example if you just want to run for example Quotetracker with half a dozen charts open, then just about anything will do the job. The most important things is decent screens so your eyes don't drop out of your head.

On the other hand, if you are running real time scans over a large universe of stocks you might be well advised to get a reasonably high end dual core machine.

of course, but then I forgot to clearly state that I trade by price and volume only, and only look at 2 instruments. This is computationally unintensive - I could get by with just a 500 Mhz machine and probably not know much difference. However if you use indicators and scanners and other such things, and you have to do it over 500 stocks etc . . . then it can all add up and slow you down.
 
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stoic said:
I take the large numbers context. Yes, there are modes of attack through different ports that the user will not be aware of. My stance on that is that there are so many computers out there on the internet that for you to be attacked via such a thing is, to put it bluntly, very unlucky. Most hackers/programs would try to attack sites/machines of worth, which is why large companies have a more stringent security policy. Also some of the recent ADSL modems have built in firewalls that block these ports. I also wouldn't dream of putting a Windows RPC service on my machine, that's just asking for it.

You also got to see it from the point of view of the people who write these viruses/spamware. What is it that they want out of you? If you have nothing of much worth on your machines then they would be wasting their time.

Honeytrap PCs were setup as a test to determine level of virus and hacking threats. Within 10minutes such unprotected PCs were being targetted.

Here is a true story.At IBM Disaster Recovery centre one company recovered their systems, including their exchange server and connected to the outside world without their firewall and infrastructure support servers. Without the users going live on their systems, the same day in the afternoon, when their Network Associates AVD server came up they found their servers were infected.

You have no idea stoic and when you are giving advice you have to be aware of other peoples environments, usage and modes of behaviour. Not everyone is the same. Nor do they have your level of knowledge.

Any computer consultant / expert / techy call yourself what you want - who does not recommend AntiVirus, Firewall and Backup importance to their users in this day and starts giving off the kind of advice you are dishing out leaves me astonished. :-0

dcraig1 is 100% right in what he says. You are 100% wrong in what you say and believe about virus / hacking threats.
 
As a point of interest Windows has a firewall. It is that sufficient ? I also have Norton ,but frankly I find that 'hungry' for want of a better description so I have it turned off. I've not been infected yet ,but there again I'm a clean living guy ;)
 
chump said:
As a point of interest Windows has a firewall. It is that sufficient ? I also have Norton ,but frankly I find that 'hungry' for want of a better description so I have it turned off. I've not been infected yet ,but there again I'm a clean living guy ;)

Hi Chump,

You should turn it on really. If you have a problem with running your trading application you can add an exception as described in this Microsoft article

You should also have your Norton's turned on in my opinion. It's not that hungry. People find security a problem so they just leave it off.

If you don't use your computer for much else but trading - as other people have recommended than you may be lucky for now. But any surfing or emails or using foreign disk media on your PC opens you up for virus - spyware - malware threats/vulnerabilities.

I basically think £20 is a small price to pay for peace of mind. These add on software products provide far more features and benefits than the built in XP firewall.

PS you should also allow automatic updates from Microsoft so that any bugs or security holes they have get patched up when they release fixes.

You might want to try earlier security check links I've posted to check any vulnerabilities with your PC.

You can also turn on Norton's and look at Task Manager to see what impact if any it has on your PC.
 
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