Keeping track of deltas

[bulldozer]

bulldozer

Have you read this http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17473

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Badtrader,

Thanx for the link.

I just read it and i agree wiv the points made to a degree.

This guy is NOT totaly correct in this statement>"REALITY #2: "Writing options will make you money most of the time, but you will lose in the long run." - Victor Sperandeo"

And he is not saying which options they are? or on what Delta the options were writen or what capital is at the disposal for the player writing those options.? or if the player has a plan to escape losses and YES you can lose in the long run! but only if you cant pay margins and the positions WILL be closed out by the broker at heavy losses.

1. I dont do stock options

2. I dont do American style options

3. I cant get assigned

4. I dont overtrade

5. I always make sure i have access to capital to pay margins.

6. I always shift a loosing position to another player B4 expiry.

7. I know a way to reduce margins if need be.

8. I do Eu style index options.

9. I dont do ATM or ITM positions

10. There are other things to my method of trading but i dont want to disclose too much on this forum, cause it may end up in someones book or seminar.

11. I can still make a profit from the Novembers 5075 short puts even if they finished ITM on expiry morning.

12. Plus i would say that those statements by Vic Sparandeo were probably made before the EU style index Options were introduced.

13. I think he was refering to american style stock /index options and NOT on the new stuff of today?

Bull

 

[badtrader]

=========================================================================

Badtrader,

Thanx for the link.

I just read it and i agree wiv the points made to a degree.

This guy is NOT totaly correct in this statement>"REALITY #2: "Writing options will make you money most of the time, but you will lose in the long run." - Victor Sperandeo"

And he is not saying which options they are? or on what Delta the options were writen or what capital is at the disposal for the player writing those options.? or if the player has a plan to escape losses and YES you can lose in the long run! but only if you cant pay margins and the positions WILL be closed out by the broker at heavy losses.

1. I dont do stock options

2. I dont do American style options

3. I cant get assigned

4. I dont overtrade

5. I always make sure i have access to capital to pay margins.

6. I always shift a loosing position to another player B4 expiry.

7. I know a way to reduce margins if need be.

8. I do Eu style index options.

9. I dont do ATM or ITM positions

10. There are other things to my method of trading but i dont want to disclose too much on this forum, cause it may end up in someones book or seminar.

11. I can still make a profit from the Novembers 5075 short puts even if they finished ITM on expiry morning.

12. Plus i would say that those statements by Vic Sparandeo were probably made before the EU style index Options were introduced.

13. I think he was refering to american style stock /index options and NOT on the new stuff of today?

Bull

It is clear to me, you know what you are talking about

 

[Profitaker]

It tells me five things for starters the first is that he is very sure of his ground

He continues to offer “wagers” as a substitute for discussing anything options. If that’s standing his ground then I agree.

and the second is that despite prodding he is not willing to discuss or give away his methods.

That’s because he can’t. His “method” is to sell DOTM index Puts and wait for them to expire worthless. The strategy is not exactly new and it is fraught with risks which he can’t understand. Ask him to explain something simple like, um….. Delta calculations or Vega risk. Ask him how SPAN margin is worked out... then you will understand the difference between “not willing” and Can’t.

The third is that he is willing to put his money where his mouth is

Is he ? We shall see.

Read the style of his posts, check out the quality of the content, admire the grammar and finally look at the rudeness and pure aggression coming from him. Now tell me, would you do business with this “man” ?

and the fourth is that he insists on it and the fifth is that he is even willing to stack the odds even higher

See above. I’m not interested in taking the opposing side. I could actually just buy the 5075 Puts if I thought they would go ITM. No, if he’s offering a risk free profit I’ll take it. Just a question of making it worthwhile by upping the stakes and making the bet legal and watertight. Watch this space.

His original statement is that 80% of Options expire worthless, that the buyer loses and the writer gets to keep all the premium and that is correct and you cannot deny it.

That is not correct. Where did those figures come from ? And anyway, what exactly does the percentage of options expiring worthless actually tell you about who made the most profit / loss, buyer or writer ? Think about it…..if you can.


Mr. B

A very late night I see. Why don’t you go down the Pub with your mates, or take your wife out to dinner instead of trying to burst a blood vessel on here ?

Are you interested in principle with the odds and stake £ 100,000 : £ 10,000 ? (Exact odds to be confirmed) If so details can be thrashed out and shouldn’t take too long. Giddy up !

 

[bulldozer]

Mr Copout, MrMilliom$$$$monkey, Mr Looooooser, etc etc,

Your quote below from post 190:
"That’s because the opponent is an empty vessel, who will discuss anything apart from the nuts and bolts of option trading. What does that tell you ?"


Explain to us all including the viewers what you mean by the word "OPPONENT" :cheesy: :arrowu:

YOU dissagreed wiv me that the writers have have the edge! so far you have been proved wrong and now your coming out wiv more excuses and all this nonsense of $100,000. Why dont you just admit you'v lost and you dont want to continue.

Read my posts again and again Mr Million$$$$$$Monkey and you will see that I'm NOT interested in your knowledge on IV SKEW or Gamma, or the VEGA, or how the value of options move up or down, or to buy options etc etc, I'm a player who takes money from the buyers [recieving premiums] and I will pay the buyers WHEN or IF they win!! PERIOD!! Full stop!! :cheesy:

Dont concern yourself how i will pay or if i can maintain the margins or if I'm able to track the Deltas or if IV is in my favour or NOT!! thats my concern not yours!!

Your concern is continue to follow the VEGA, GAMMA, DELTA, I V skew etc etc and KEEP BUYING options paying premiums to the WRITERS.! :cheesy:

By the way its NOT the perfect english or spelling or grammar that will make money in options! Its Knowing where their value will be at EXPIRY! and NOT the "GREEKS"!!


Its NOT your money I'm after [wager] I want to see you lose the arguement and GET OFF this forum for a YEAR or longer!! Why ? cause your full of CR ap!! and you never once admited to all the viewers that ALL OPTIONS are a WAISTING ASSET!!!!! This is the very FIRST KNOWLEDGE and GOLDEN FACT on ALL OPTIONS!!!! :cheesy: Waisting means they reduce in value like cars and clothes and your account!! :cheesy:

Now plz explain what you mean when you said OPPONENT in post 190? cause i fink these type of words and comments are agressive and rude are they not?

I'm not English I'm Italian/Maltese do you reckon you can write wiv good grammar/spelling in my native tongue??

Bull

 

[bulldozer]

Your quote below:
"See above. I’m not interested in taking the opposing side. I could actually just buy the 5075 Puts if I thought they would go ITM. No, if he’s offering a risk free profit I’ll take it. Just a question of making it worthwhile by upping the stakes and making the bet legal and watertight. Watch this space."

Now, for the very last time do you want to take on the wager of my 25 yrs ban to your ONE year?? I give you till sunset today to decide!!! :cheesy: R U man or mouse ?

Again you would be wrong to buy the Nov 5075 put [above]! :cheesy:

So you want to be offered a risk free?[above] So what the hell are you doing buying OPTIONS premiums Mr Million$$$$$$$$$Monkey.????????? :cheesy: or doing option strategies where you have to pay for opening positions?? Doh :cheesy: Is there any RISK FREE options strategies??? If so plz tell us just ONE? :cheesy: and how come you took a "BAD WHACK" ???? :cheesy: [your admition in one of your post]

Bull

 

[bulldozer]

He continues to offer “wagers” as a substitute for discussing anything options. If that’s standing his ground then I agree.
That’s because he can’t. His “method” is to sell DOTM index Puts and wait for them to expire worthless. The strategy is not exactly new and it is fraught with risks which he can’t understand. Ask him to explain something simple like, um….. Delta calculations or Vega risk. Ask him how SPAN margin is worked out... then you will understand the difference between “not willing” and Can’t.

Is he ? We shall see.

Read the style of his posts, check out the quality of the content, admire the grammar and finally look at the rudeness and pure aggression coming from him. Now tell me, would you do business with this “man” ?

See above. I’m not interested in taking the opposing side. I could actually just buy the 5075 Puts if I thought they would go ITM. No, if he’s offering a risk free profit I’ll take it. Just a question of making it worthwhile by upping the stakes and making the bet legal and watertight. Watch this space.

That is not correct. Where did those figures come from ? And anyway, what exactly does the percentage of options expiring worthless actually tell you about who made the most profit / loss, buyer or writer ? Think about it…..if you can.


Mr. B

A very late night I see. Why don’t you go down the Pub with your mates, or take your wife out to dinner instead of trying to burst a blood vessel on here ?

Are you interested in principle with the odds and stake £ 100,000 : £ 10,000 ? (Exact odds to be confirmed) If so details can be thrashed out and shouldn’t take too long. Giddy up !

================================================================

Mr Million$$$$$loooooser,

According to your last 2 lines you do NOW KNOW and FULLY understand and ADMIT what the bet or arguement is all about! :cheesy: So all that needs to be sorted out is the wager correct? :cheesy:
I'm prepared to give you 10/1 odds like i first suggested [payments to be made to admin]
My $1,000 to your $100 and its conditional that you also accept the 25 yrs to ONE yr self imposed ban! and you have my permision to hedge with a binary of your choice to make your end RISK FREE!

PLZ AGREE BY SUNSET TODAY!! :cheesy:

Bull

 

[Pitscum]

soc..you're furniture. i doubt you understand trading as well. please feel free to learn from bullsh++. i mean. how can selling puts out at 10 which traded 24 and above be great trading? and if you sold them for 10 then dont sell them when they double that makes u think two things:

1. rabbit in headlights.
2. spare cash rolled up into paying clearing house variation margins.

hes no trader. he punts. binaries were made for him. an options trader i speak with who was long teenies has made all this years money in the last 8 weeks. the teenies gave him the ammo to trade around the not very clued up paper (thatll be bull then) and have home runs every day. selling naked premium is a dead end strategy. theres zero else you can do with it, except stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself so you dont hear the risk man calling.

i dont actully feel bullsh++ has ever been a successful punter. i have yet to meet a rich short premium trader, so a successful short premium punter???. i can give you a roll call of busted short premium players, even traders who killed themselves when they lost it all but one who was successful? no sorry.....they were all carried out.

being short premium is one of those business where you end up with a $1,000,000 at the end of it, only cos you went into it with $10,000,000 in the first place....thats bull........

 

[bulldozer]

Scum,
You dont trade and you dont gamble [your own admition] why do you post?
and why Still undecided on the wager? I'm about to prove to you that the writer will make money from the Nov's 5075 puts and remove your belief that you have not seen a writer make money!!

Yes i came back in order to prove that YOU and your side kick [ Profitaker] are wrong and to get you off the forum for as long as possible!! :cheesy: and i also came back because i was asked to come back to reply to some posts! :cheesy: You can see its NOT my style to avoid posts.

Plz go back to your 22 yr young wifey she may need your help to do some house work. :cheesy:

Bull

 

[SOCRATES]

soc..you're furniture. i doubt you understand trading as well. please feel free to learn from bullsh++. i mean. how can selling puts out at 10 which traded 24 and above be great trading? and if you sold them for 10 then dont sell them when they double that makes u think two things:

1. rabbit in headlights.
2. spare cash rolled up into paying clearing house variation margins.

hes no trader. he punts. binaries were made for him. an options trader i speak with who was long teenies has made all this years money in the last 8 weeks. the teenies gave him the ammo to trade around the not very clued up paper (thatll be bull then) and have home runs every day. selling naked premium is a dead end strategy. theres zero else you can do with it, except stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself so you dont hear the risk man calling.

i dont actully feel bullsh++ has ever been a successful punter. i have yet to meet a rich short premium trader, so a successful short premium punter???. i can give you a roll call of busted short premium players, even traders who killed themselves when they lost it all but one who was successful? no sorry.....they were all carried out.

being short premium is one of those business where you end up with a $1,000,000 at the end of it, only cos you went into it with $10,000,000 in the first place....thats bull........

You need to be spoken to in tradingpitspeak so that you can understand proper like.

It is very rude for you to say anyone is furnture, its toilet, Pitscum.

All I can see is that you are not putting up nor shutting up.

When I see you putting up instead of making a lot of noise, only then will you gain my respect, and not before.

 

[SOCRATES]

He continues to offer “wagers” as a substitute for discussing anything options. If that’s standing his ground then I agree.
That’s because he can’t. His “method” is to sell DOTM index Puts and wait for them to expire worthless. The strategy is not exactly new and it is fraught with risks which he can’t understand. Ask him to explain something simple like, um….. Delta calculations or Vega risk. Ask him how SPAN margin is worked out... then you will understand the difference between “not willing” and Can’t.

Is he ? We shall see.

Read the style of his posts, check out the quality of the content, admire the grammar and finally look at the rudeness and pure aggression coming from him. Now tell me, would you do business with this “man” ?

See above. I’m not interested in taking the opposing side. I could actually just buy the 5075 Puts if I thought they would go ITM. No, if he’s offering a risk free profit I’ll take it. Just a question of making it worthwhile by upping the stakes and making the bet legal and watertight. Watch this space.

That is not correct. Where did those figures come from ? And anyway, what exactly does the percentage of options expiring worthless actually tell you about who made the most profit / loss, buyer or writer ? Think about it…..if you can.


Mr. B

A very late night I see. Why don’t you go down the Pub with your mates, or take your wife out to dinner instead of trying to burst a blood vessel on here ?

Are you interested in principle with the odds and stake £ 100,000 : £ 10,000 ? (Exact odds to be confirmed) If so details can be thrashed out and shouldn’t take too long. Giddy up !

Listen, when an option expires worthless or near worthless (as in cabinet) the writer, who is the giver of the option gets to keep all the premium or very nearly all the premium. The holder or buyer gets to lose what the writer or giver gains, its that simple, you don't have to go all the way round the houses arguing because it is a fact, that's all.

Now put up or shut up is the best advice I can give you.

 

[bulldozer]

SUNSET IS LOOMING!! :cheesy: :arrowu: no guts!! ALL BARKING NOISE WITH NO BITE! :cheesy:

My offer to you 2 geniu's is now 100 yrs to your ONE year self imposed ban! :cheesy: Decision b4 sunset today!! :cheesy:

Members, and viewers,

Plz dont be tempted to purchase the Nov 5075 Put on footsie index as Mr profitaker seems to be suggesting / indicating! You will have LESS than 10% chace of getting any of your money back let alone profits! Ignore my warnings at your peril!!

Bull

 

[Pitscum]

soc...ehhh, sorry, missing why i need your respect?im sorry but i have to laugh at people who say stuff like that.try sniffing air for a change hmmmm???

im not a gambling punter like you guys. i do, however, t-r-a-d-e. you might try it sometime yourself hmmmm?

a one off punt with bullsh++ is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. you can rant off all you like too its great amusement for everyone reading these posts.

like i said soc, you make a comfy sofa. any chance of a side light though?

bullsh++......have you ever tried options trading? you know, one vol against another, buidling a book of posns up in lots of strikes and trading the book so that as the market moves, your book takes on a different perspective? or do you just make a fone call to your lover the broker, sell 2 lots of an otm and then dash for the bunker if? you see, by trading options, its gives you so many different levels to play the game outside fire and hope....or are you too old and bust to change your ways? maybe soc will back you if you've got too badly hurt this last fall...hmmmm?

oh um, 24 and counting.....

 

[bulldozer]

soc...sorry, missing why i need your respect? im not a gambling punter like you guys. i do, however, t-r-a-d-e. you might try it sometime yourself hmmmm?

a one off punt with bullsh++ is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. you can rant off all you like too its great amusement for everyone reading these posts.

like i said, you make a comfy sofa. any chance of a side light though?

Put up or pi ss off!! :cheesy: Your about to see for the FIRST TIME in your trading life HOW A WRITER TAKES PROFITS!!

Sunset looming! Show the viewers that you have other hidden talents and not just brilliant at making barking noise! :cheesy: show us all that you can also bite?! :cheesy: Take the wager of 100 yrs to your ONE year! PLEASE!! dont make me beg any longer. :cheesy:

Bull

 

[Pitscum]

bull. in the last 8 weeks while youve been begging for an extension of credit at your broking house, proper traders have been opening up extra bank accounts to shovel their money in, YOUR MONEY!!!!

you carry on punting bullsh++. and calm down old man, you'll have a heart attack before you make that home run..mind you, at least all your debts will die with you???ho hum

 

[RUDEBOY]

Total disagreement between two adults. It happens. I just hope the mods respect this.

 

[Pitscum]

i am not adult.ok??

 

[bulldozer]

i am not adult.ok??

Correct ! :cheesy: Your SCUM of the pits! :cheesy:

 

[bulldozer]

Badtrader,

Take a look at this below:
http://www.futuresknowledge.com/Guides/GPFOoptions.htm

http://option-wizard.com/t18.shtml

BACK TO BASICS: Taking Advantage of Time Decay


By Frederic Ruffy, Optionetics.com
9/30/2003 2:30 PM EST


Have you ever heard the expression that options are “wasting assets”? Since options suffer from what is known as time decay, with each passing day, the options contract will lose value. Therefore, if a strategist buys a put or call and holds it in their account, even if the underlying stock or index makes no price movement at all, the portfolio will lose value. As a result, options strategists must carefully examine how time is effecting their options positions.

 

[RUDEBOY]

Pit, you have taken my post out of context. Should i have to comfort you?

 

[Pitscum]

gimme a dummy and a blanket