Futures broker - any recommendations?

[bulldozer]

I don't trade options, I am happy with IB as are many who trade shares but I will leave you to your anti IB crusade since I and many others are finding your rantings rather tedious. Nice to extract an apology from you at anyrate

Neil,
I'm glad and happy to hear u dont trade options and that your happy with your brokers and their service. My posts were NOT addressed to people who dont trade options! only to those who do!
What do u mean "nice to extract an apology" You did no such thing! read my post again! Perhaps you will notice i offered the apology willingly if i was wrong.

Now , tell us about their phone service is it as good as they want people to believe? Pls dont read this question wrongly. Keep cool

Bull

 

[bulldozer]

Neil, your quote:
"I will leave you to your anti IB crusade since I and many others are finding your rantings rather tedious."

Neil,
There are a small % of people who have been truely blessed by the Allmighty with your gift of telepathy.

Bull
In all things give thanx Have a good week.

 

[nine]

LOL Bulldozer,

I wont try to answer your points because I don't know the answers and suspect that def answered some. Like I said previously I very rarely trade options and like IB for what I do trade (futures) and I have noticed that some option traders prefer other firms --- but thats good because thats what competition is about, choice of different feature/price sets.

I will have a go at the phone vs computer argument though. If I have my laptop or my PDA with broadband (or even packet cellular) in the restauraunt, pub, or theatre I bet I can get my order in before yours and what's more I can get a chart to support the decision as well. But to be honest I only trade in an environment where I have had a chance to think through my decision first so I don't trade in pubs, theatres or restauraunts.

I hope you have a good week too

 

[cj12]

does anyone use these, they got the cheapest margin around only $300 margin to trade the Dow YM s&p.

http://www.globalfutures.com/margins/

 

[def]

kiwi,

My broker is uk based and here are just a few things about their service:
1. Marg charged by them is ZERO on all strategies. Only pay marg to the clearing hse at their rate and no addition made by brokers.
2. All trades are recorded over the phone, so if an error is made and there are losses of x amount of £'s it can be traced thro the tapes.
3. All trades are repeated over the phone to make double sure that details are correct.
4. If a option strategy is on marg call there is 3 days grace to pay up. The bonus of this is that mrkts can change in my favour and the marg-call is cancelled.
5. I am allowed to adjust positions if im on marg-call without first settling the marg issue.
6. They would never close the written legs if marg is not paid after the grace perriod is up. They would close the short and the longs at best price to suit the client [clients best interest]
7. They allow me to use hedge's against my options position that are NOT options related at all and this will reduce the marg by a great deal and increase my contracts volume, which in turn increase's my income [profits]
8. They specialise ONLY with derivatives trading and are not over streched with work. I like this because i can have a good chin-wag with them about the mrkts and other things too.

9. They are regelated by the FSA a stronger bodie than the US

Bull

Yes, I do work for IB and I don't want to get into a tit for tat here but I will address your comments:

1. If a strategy requires margin, then we will charge margin as required by the exchanges. If what you imply is that you do not have to put up any capital, I find that hard to believe. Not only does this fly in the face of regulations, would you really be comfortable placing capital at a firm that doesn't require margin for their clients before entering a trade?

2. All trades entered in via IB's TWS have an extensive audit trail that is recorded and saved. Clients can also save a local copy of their audit trail as well. Clients who call in to place a trade naturally do so over a recorded line.

3. By the time your broker confirms the order to you over the phone you may have missed an opportunity. Nevertheless, parameters can be set on the TWS to pop up a warning box or to confirm entry of an order.

4. margin/credit at IB is real time. If a position goes in your favor, you can use that capital to put on other positions.

5. You should be able to close a position given the capital within the account satisfies regulatory requirements

6. You can set which positions/legs are liquidated first via the TWS.

7. Not sure what you are stating but available net liq determines buying power. If you are talking buy/writes and the such, you can do those as well.

8. IB has extensive experience with derivatives.. Look up the history on our web site.

9. We are also regulated by the FSA but to say they are safer is ludicrous. US broker dealers will fall under SIPC which offers insurance of upto 500K (100K cash, 400K securities). In addition, IB has insurance from Lyolds of London with protection up to 30 million. More importantly, IB has ample capital with the Group being ranked the 16th largest securities firm in the US. The IBG has roughly $2 billion in equity with little or no debt.

Other items you address:
- you say interest doesn't matter. It certainly does. interest earned/paid is a factor in pricing options).

- sell ATM options. If you have sufficient equity in the account you can do so. If you don't you will not be able to.

- naked options: when opening an account a number of factors are taken into account when granting option trading permissions. Rogue trading is not an issue at IB since we require margin up front. I.e. if your net liq is not high enough to support initial margin requirements, you will not be able to enter a trade.

- how many leave and why? I don't know. I do know that we receive more than 5 account transfers into IB for every one that leaves.

- trade by car: we're not interested in that type of business. we are interested in servicing the active trader. If needed, clients can trade via a PDA or call into our trade desk.

Our options business is doing very well and is experiencing large growth. We believe our SMART options routing is second to none. With that said, IB is not for all traders and we can't be all things to all people. That's what's great about competition.

 

[bulldozer]

Def,
Although you have given much info about IB, the truth is you did not answer most of my points.

I do a lot of trading when I'm traveling ie car,train,airports taxis etc and if what you say your not interested in those type of customers then i see why people leave your firm. The five that join perhaps dont know some of the points youve mentioned when they joined.
Most options traders trade options not for what interest payments they can get but for what level of service they can get and marg conditions.
I have heard too many horror stories with IB service on forums regarding mainly with options.

If you dont believe some of the points i made with regards to UK brokers? thats fine by me, but people now after reading my comments will check with brokers if im saying nonsense or not.

I also would like to add that i'm MORE interested WHY people leave a broker and not why they join.

Bull

Some people answer questions like politicians others answer from the heart.

 

[neil]

Good luck 'Dozer

'Dozer,
Stop waffling on. Accept that more people join IB than leave. Those that leave simply prove that no broker suits everybody. Get on with your life and good luck in your quest for YOUR perfect broker. :cheesy:

 

[bulldozer]

does anyone use these, they got the cheapest margin around only $300 margin to trade the Dow YM s&p.

http://www.globalfutures.com/margins/

Sun,
Re; margin
Are they better than IB? LESS marg= more trades and more trades=more profits!
Do they do options too?
Are you bothered on what interest payment they give or are more interested on the marg level and the service. Can i trade from my car,train, as there may come an oppotunity and i dont want to miss it and lose out.

Bull
Be smart and you cant be fooled

 

[bulldozer]

'Dozer,
Stop waffling on. Accept that more people join IB than leave. Those that leave simply prove that no broker suits everybody. Get on with your life and good luck in your quest for YOUR perfect broker. :cheesy:

Neil,
Thanx 4 ur comments,
Some people like searching for better brokers and better opportunity in life to better them selves others dont. Some like to follow the heard.
I have found the perfect broker i think? but I'm still looking for one that can better mine.
Remember folks WE are the clients that pay their wages! and not the other way around. They need us for our money! dont ever forget it.

Have a good week Neil and if you need some advice in future dont hesitate to ask? you can use the PM i dont mind, but in your case there will be a fee.

Bull
Smart people dont get rolled over/fooled easily

 

[Windlesham1]

dozer- I use the phone and as far as I know you have to use phone to 'sell to open'. I have only used IB for single futures contracts and the odd option purchase(or lottery ticket as some people call them). The data on IB is good for ripoff britain-all the US sites as we know disseminate price data for free.

 

[bulldozer]

Quote by Kiwi:
"LOL Bulldozer,"

"I wont try to answer your points because I don't know the answers and suspect that def answered some. Like I said previously I very rarely trade options and like IB for what I do trade (futures) and I have noticed that some option traders prefer other firms --- but thats good because thats what competition is about, choice of different feature/price sets."

Kiwi,
Thanxs 4 ur comments again.
I admire ur honesty.
Yur correct about def... he answered SOME.

Now , phone .v. online
If we were both driving down the motor way and i want to close SOME futures contracts with just ONE minute left of trading time, who has more chane of getting filled? and its friday.

I think it will take you more than a minute to move from the fast lane and into the hard shoulder and come to a halt. Plus it would be ilegal to conduct trading on hard shoulder.

 

[def]

Bulldozer,

We are a firm providing electronic direct access to the markets. Anyone who trades via IB knows that you trade via a computer or via a device that connects to the Internet. This is clearly stated on our web site and during the account opening process. Our clients care about speed and quality of executions. Those who do most of their trading while waiting in airports, trains or sitting in a back seat of a car, will either have a wireless connection or be better suited with a personal broker (ie. a real person who can take their calls and place their orders). I'd also note that when driving a car you should be concentrating on the road, not closing a futures trade. We'd prefer our clients set a MOC order or use a time trigger with a condition to close such a trade. But to put your scenario in proper context, if there is a minute left to trading and you have access to a computer and need to close a trade, anyone with a direct connection to the exchange will stand a better chance of getting filled. Simply seeing the market move is faster than a broker can relay the information to you.

One more important point. You state the greater margin = greater profits. That is untrue. Greater margin = greater leverage, Greater leverage = greater risk. You can easily wipe yourself out if you trade beyond your means.

 

[bulldozer]

Bulldozer,

We are a firm providing electronic direct access to the markets. Anyone who trades via IB knows that you trade via a computer or via a device that connects to the Internet. This is clearly stated on our web site and during the account opening process. Our clients care about speed and quality of executions. Those who do most of their trading while waiting in airports, trains or sitting in a back seat of a car, will either have a wireless connection or be better suited with a personal broker (ie. a real person who can take their calls and place their orders). I'd also note that when driving a car you should be concentrating on the road, not closing a futures trade. We'd prefer our clients set a MOC order or use a time trigger with a condition to close such a trade. But to put your scenario in proper context, if there is a minute left to trading and you have access to a computer and need to close a trade, anyone with a direct connection to the exchange will stand a better chance of getting filled. Simply seeing the market move is faster than a broker can relay the information to you.

One more important point. You state the greater margin = greater profits. That is untrue. Greater margin = greater leverage, Greater leverage = greater risk. You can easily wipe yourself out if you trade beyond your means.

Def,
Your not speaking to a guy thats been doing options for a few months. I've been doing them while you were probably still in kindergarden school.
My car is fully loaded top of range model. I can hit a switch on the indircator stick and just mention my brokers name [voice activated] and I'm through while still on the fast lane on the motorway doing 70 mph. Without having to stop on the hard shoulder [breackdown lane] and get the computer out and start pushing buttons. By the way its ALSO ilegal to trade on the hard shoulder. Its NOT ilegal to trade with my car phone [hands free] check it out when you go to a BMW show room.

Now back to your 1 in five leaving your firm! thats 20 in 100! you dont need me to tell u the %.

Those 20 could be BIG players and the 80 are just small timers with accounts the size of my kids pigy bank. Just 3 of those 20 could possibly trade more than the 80 put together.
They left most probably because of your stupid YES STUPID marg rules.
A good derivative broker Knows a good option player when he see's one! thats why I'm/others given 3 days grace on marg calls and they also ALLOW me to adjust positions WITHOUT first settling the marg issue. A good option player can even adjust with a hedge on margin call WITHOUT having HIS positions CLOSED down or tanpered with .
I'm begginning to see why 20 in 100 leave your firm.
And finally pls dont insult my brains with your stupid comments! Your just showing your true colours and how stupid your firm realy is!
$50,Ml cover,? this just goes to show that your clients have piggy bank accounts.

Dear members dont be affraid to ask MANY questions to a broker before opening an account.
I dont reccommend brokers, because my requirements and tastes could be dffrt to yours and my style of trading too. and i dont want to be responsible if the brokers make errors. YES my brokers have made errors and ALL errors have been sorted out to my satisfaction. I also excecise my RIGHT which dealer to place my trades with! I refuse to give my ORDERS to monkeys. If this is rude? than its TUFF sh it!!
Monkeys dont mess with bull's

Your last quote below:
"One more important point. You state the greater margin = greater profits. That is untrue. Greater margin = greater leverage, Greater leverage = greater risk. You can easily wipe yourself out if you trade beyond your means".

READ my statement again!! LESS MARGIN PAID = MORE TRADES AND MORE TRADES = MORE £$£$
ALL GOOD OPTION PLAYERS DONT TRADE BEYOND THEIR MEANS! YOU REALY ARE MORE STUPID THAN I FIRST THOUGHT. NO OPTION PLAYER LIKES PAYING HEAVY MARG!

Bull
Good luck with your drive to find more clients! I just hope they are smarter than me and you!

 

[def]

Def,
Your not speaking to a guy thats been doing options for a few months. I've been doing them while you were probably still in kindergarden school.
My car is fully loaded top of range model. I can hit a switch on the indircator stick and just mention my brokers name [voice activated] and I'm through while still on the fast lane on the motorway doing 70 mph. Without having to stop on the hard shoulder [breackdown lane] and get the computer out and start pushing buttons. By the way its ALSO ilegal to trade on the hard shoulder. Its NOT ilegal to trade with my car phone [hands free] check it out when you go to a BMW show room.

Now back to your 1 in five leaving your firm! thats 20 in 100! you dont need me to tell u the %.

Those 20 could be BIG players and the 80 are just small timers with accounts the size of my kids pigy bank. Just 3 of those 20 could possibly trade more than the 80 put together.
They left most probably because of your stupid YES STUPID marg rules.
A good derivative broker Knows a good option player when he see's one! thats why I'm/others given 3 days grace on marg calls and they also ALLOW me to adjust positions WITHOUT first settling the marg issue. A good option player can even adjust with a hedge on margin call WITHOUT having HIS positions CLOSED down or tanpered with .
I'm begginning to see why 20 in 100 leave your firm.
And finally pls dont insult my brains with your stupid comments! Your just showing your true colours and how stupid your firm realy is!
$50,Ml cover,? this just goes to show that your clients have piggy bank accounts.

Dear members dont be affraid to ask MANY questions to a broker before opening an account.
I dont reccommend brokers, because my requirements and tastes could be dffrt to yours and my style of trading too. and i dont want to be responsible if the brokers make errors. YES my brokers have made errors and ALL errors have been sorted out to my satisfaction. I also excecise my RIGHT which dealer to place my trades with! I refuse to give my ORDERS to monkeys. If this is rude? than its TUFF sh it!!
Monkeys dont mess with bull's

Your last quote below:
"One more important point. You state the greater margin = greater profits. That is untrue. Greater margin = greater leverage, Greater leverage = greater risk. You can easily wipe yourself out if you trade beyond your means".

READ my statement again!! LESS MARGIN PAID = MORE TRADES AND MORE TRADES = MORE £$£$
ALL GOOD OPTION PLAYERS DONT TRADE BEYOND THEIR MEANS! YOU REALY ARE MORE STUPID THAN I FIRST THOUGHT. NO OPTION PLAYER LIKES PAYING HEAVY MARG!

Bull
Good luck with your drive to find more clients! I just hope they are smarter than me and you!

Bulldozer,

If you've been trading options actively for more than 20 years, then you have more experience than me. nevertheless, i'm leaning on my 20 years of experience when I speak.

First, I never said 1 in 5 leave the firm. I was referring that the ratio of accounts that transfer in from another firm relative to those who request an asset transfer to another firm is greater than 5:1. Our account growth and increase in trading volumes remains very strong. If you are really interested, look at the financials on the IB web site and you'll see our asset growth (client assets are approaching 2 billion USD). if you refuse to believe that many professional traders are intelligent enough to use our system that would simply contradict the facts.

Are you sure about your statement in regards to all good traders never trading beyond their means? as a firm can we take that to the bank? Hmmm. Ever hear of a guy named Nick Leeson, what about LTCM, National Australian Bank, a few years back a well known clearing firm was blown out in London due to allowing a professional market maker taking on excessive risk, the list goes on. I'm glad you found a broker who suits your needs. However, you have never traded with IB, obviously have not studied our web site or know much about firms history. Thus, it would make sense to keep your comments to things you know rather than speculate on things you don't.

 

[Silent.Trader]

They left most probably because of your stupid YES STUPID marg rules.

To start I've no experience with IB, but I'm seriously considering to open an account with them.

AFAIK IB requests margins as prescribed by the relevant exchanges. So I don't really see how you can blame IB for the margin rules being stupid. If you know brokers with lower margin I'm very much interested in the names of these brokers. (I'm mainly interested in US Option markets, Eurex and LIFFE).

Further I hear/read only very few complaints about IB and the complaints I hear are mainly about their limited customer service and the not always very clear (sometimes even confusing) website. I would greatly appreciate it if you could point me to some of these complaints regarding options trading.

many thanks in advance.

 

[bulldozer]

To start I've no experience with IB, but I'm seriously considering to open an account with them.

AFAIK IB requests margins as prescribed by the relevant exchanges. So I don't really see how you can blame IB for the margin rules being stupid. If you know brokers with lower margin I'm very much interested in the names of these brokers. (I'm mainly interested in US Option markets, Eurex and LIFFE).

Further I hear/read only very few complaints about IB and the complaints I hear are mainly about their limited customer service and the not always very clear (sometimes even confusing) website. I would greatly appreciate it if you could point me to some of these complaints regarding options trading.

many thanks in advance.

=================================================================
Silent t,
Firstly i would like you to know that MOST rules concerning margin are made by the brokers and NOT by the clearing house/exchange. The brokers dont want you to know the truth! and they dont like SMART questions either.!! Mr Def is an employee of IB try asking him some questions on the board please, we all want to read his posts on IB.
Read my posts on questions to ask brokers and then ask many other brokers the same questions and see if they ALL have the same answers especially on the marg.
I cannot give reccomendations on brokers but there are better out there than the US ones for option trading.

I did see a forum with some complaints on IB options service, if i come acrross it again i will put up a link.
Dont let cheap fees pursuade you into becoming a client thats the last of ALL questions! And the least important. I pay More than DOUBLE in fees with my UK brokers than IB. I pay £3.50 per lot on 6 or over. I'm using two UK brokers at the mo.

Bull

 

[bulldozer]

Def your quote bellow:
"Are you sure about your statement in regards to all good traders never trading beyond their means? as a firm can we take that to the bank? Hmmm. Ever hear of a guy named Nick Leeson, what about LTCM, National Australian Bank, a few years back a well known clearing firm was blown out in London due to allowing a professional market maker taking on excessive risk, the list goes on"
===================================================================
Def,
You dont read my post to good man?
Allow me to repeat what i said b4. ALL GOOD traders DONT over trade! Our friend Nick Leeson WAS NOT a GOOD trader thats why he got his fingers burned playing the ftrs mrkt . He then switch'd to options to recoup his losses. He also did not know that the ftrsDELTA was STRONGER than the options delta. What he was GOOD at was fooling his boss and Barrings went under! there are many Nick Leesons working in banks today NOT because they are good traders but are GOOD at fooling people!! thats why you hear those sad news from time to time about banks loosing MILLIONs on the mrkts.

Nick was a bad trader who did not like STOP LOSS and did NOT like to UNDERTRADE either.Nick was a rogue trader 110%

Bull

 

[cj12]

Bull

Do you use Mandirect brokerage by any chance?

Sun

 

[bulldozer]

Bull

Do you use Mandirect brokerage by any chance?

Sun

==================================================================
No.

I dont recommend brokers and i dont like telling people the brokres i use for many obvious reasons! one good reason is that they may not offer you the same deal as me and that could become a bit dirty and hostile. I dont like to tell people who i bank with either. Or what type of hedge i use in my strats. One thing i will say is that i use more than one strategy in options.

Bull

Let your hedge be your edge

 

[Silent.Trader]

Firstly i would like you to know that MOST rules concerning margin are made by the brokers and NOT by the clearing house/exchange. The brokers dont want you to know the truth! and

I agree that many brokers do charge more margin than prescribed. My statement was about IB. The rules on their site for US markets are imho the same as those of the OCC. For other markets they refer to the exchange for the minimum margin rules. So my conclusion is that IB charges the minimum. Only for Euronext Amsterdam I've my doubts, they abandoned compulsory margin last year. The previous set of rules is still available as advise. I'm not sure about the rules IB applies now. Def, you've the answer!?

Dont let cheap fees pursuade you into becoming a client thats the last of ALL questions! And the least important. I pay More than DOUBLE in fees with my UK brokers than IB. I pay £3.50 per lot on 6 or over. I'm using two UK brokers at the mo.

I agree that quality and reliability is more important than the fees. Fees are however by far my biggest expense, and imho it does make a difference in the long run. Specially if you trade combi's or short options fees may impact the gain perspectives significantly.

I've had my fair share of bad experiences with brokers. Brokers may straight out lie and public opinion may very well give a skewed impression too, specially when you're not "standard" and/or particular critical . So I most likely will end up opening a couple of accounts and test the brokers myself with a small account before making a final decision.