FTSE 100 - Live trades as part of an exercise

[barjon]

Btw just noticed the ban. In all fairness to barjon

"Told you so..."

So now what do we do for entertainment?

well the object of the exercise was to get real time, auditable trades(calls) entries and exits and see how it went. That's a far cry from what we usually have to suffer from most vendor types and thus worth the effort I thought.

jon

 

[DionysusToast]

Guys... This has been fun. It aint a conspiracy. It really didnt generate more dosh for t2w. Barjon just wants to give people benefit of the doubt. Some of us are a bit less forgiving
Saying that - its the less forgiving group that are right in the main

 

[francisfinley]

If it creates traffic, then yes of course it will.

I suspect this is a rhetorical question, you've been around long enough to know the the score.

The interesting thing is how much more can they actually dumb down content before losing all credability, and hitting the point where even the most inexperienced new member figures out that they'd be better off reading womens realm for trading advice ? Surely we cant be too far away from that point.

credibility.

irony.

 

[new_trader]

well the object of the exercise was to get real time, auditable trades(calls) entries and exits and see how it went. That's a far cry from what we usually have to suffer from most vendor types and thus worth the effort I thought.

jon

Well jon, how about that? Littleangel was wallstreet all along...and he would have got away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!

 

[bbmac]

Watch out !

Well jon, how about that? Littleangel was wallstreet all along...and he would have got away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids!

 

[the hare]

well the object of the exercise was to get real time, auditable trades(calls) entries and exits and see how it went. That's a far cry from what we usually have to suffer from most vendor types and thus worth the effort I thought.

No it wasnt.

From time to time, I've been kind enough to teach people the method that I trade. One of the exercises I set them is to take completely random, short term demo trades over a period of several months.

After those trade have been completed, I ask them to plot an equity curve. Not surprisingly, the equity curve generally has a negative gradient.

I then get them to re plot the equity curve but fiddle the numbers to assume that each trade actually made 1 pip more than it actualy did. A 10 pip winner becomes 11 pips, and a 25 pip loser becomes a 24 pip loser etc

I think its fair to say most people who do that have been pretty shocked at the difference it makes. Then add 2 pips and see the effect !

The truth is, a vendor who is able to manipulate a pip on entry, and a pip on exit can put put together a pretty impressive track record simply by tossing a coin.

The question has to be, is it possible to fraudulently claim an entry 1 pip away from where you where actually filled posting entries and exits at a forum. The answer to that question should be bleeding obvious.

Add the issue of multiple exits into the mix, and a little discrepency about how many lots where opened and closed and at what price, and any idiot can put together an extremely impressive track record.

I'm tempted just for lulz to post live calls via twitter from one of my random robots, I'll manipulate the prices by shaving a pip off here and there, and even with a few seconds latency, I guarentee not a single person here at t2w will spot what I'm doing, and I guarentee that I'll return an average of 10% per month. The reality of course is that the robot will lose money.

It is actually beyod belief that a moderator at a trading forum would fall for this nonsense. Anyone whose actually even attepted to make a few quid from the markets for more than 30 seconds understands how these games are played.

T2W should collectively hang their heads in shame. You could insist that vendors trade via that forex desk abomination you are all so fascinated with. That really would be quality lulz.

 

[Splitlink]

Guys... This has been fun. It aint a conspiracy. It really didnt generate more dosh for t2w. Barjon just wants to give people benefit of the doubt. Some of us are a bit less forgiving
Saying that - its the less forgiving group that are right in the main

Yes, perhaps, but is the result worth it? How many sincere posters get trashed or do not want the hassle?

The fact is that some posters know that they can act as they wish on the internet in a way that would not be permissable in their own surroundings. We are at the mercy of the character of the person who wants to belittle, or humiliate, us and there is nothing that can be done about it.

My intervention is for the same reason as Barjon's. Hopefully, there may be a grain of useful information in someone's theories.

Some posters think that they are, really, smart but I have been to sea with men who would make them look like choirboys and I have been around the block several times, believe me, and I sigh when the same old sadsack story of women's panties, etc. comes online. Pleeeez! I've heard it all before and I want to get to the point.

Anyone who thought that I did not consider the probabilty of WS being Yasmin does not know me very well, but that was not my consideration when writing my posts. A fair hearing and being able to come to my own conclusion was the point.

 

[Splitlink]

No it wasnt.

From time to time, I've been kind enough to teach people the method that I trade. One of the exercises I set them is to take completely random, short term demo trades over a period of several months.

After those trade have been completed, I ask them to plot an equity curve. Not surprisingly, the equity curve generally has a negative gradient.

I then get them to re plot the equity curve but fiddle the numbers to assume that each trade actually made 1 pip more than it actualy did. A 10 pip winner becomes 11 pips, and a 25 pip loser becomes a 24 pip loser etc

I think its fair to say most people who do that have been pretty shocked at the difference it makes. Then add 2 pips and see the effect !

The truth is, a vendor who is able to manipulate a pip on entry, and a pip on exit can put put together a pretty impressive track record simply by tossing a coin.

The question has to be, is it possible to fraudulently claim an entry 1 pip away from where you where actually filled posting entries and exits at a forum. The answer to that question should be bleeding obvious.

Add the issue of multiple exits into the mix, and a little discrepency about how many lots where opened and closed and at what price, and any idiot can put together an extremely impressive track record.

I'm tempted just for lulz to post live calls via twitter from one of my random robots, I'll manipulate the prices by shaving a pip off here and there, and even with a few seconds latency, I guarentee not a single person here at t2w will spot what I'm doing, and I guarentee that I'll return an average of 10% per month. The reality of course is that the robot will lose money.

It is actually beyod belief that a moderator at a trading forum would fall for this nonsense. Anyone whose actually even attepted to make a few quid from the markets for more than 30 seconds understands how these games are played.

T2W should collectively hang their heads in shame. You could insist that vendors trade via that forex desk abomination you are all so fascinated with. That really would be quality lulz.

What you say is all well and good , but you have as much credibilty here as me or anyone else. No more and no less.

If you are tempted to post live calls, littleangel threw down the gauntlet. I doubt that there is anyone who will pick it up. I do not think that she (or he) was going for the odd pip here and there and it, certainly, would not make any difference to my trades, I'd have to be a scalper in the true sense of the word, for that.

Let's be clear about what you have admitted more than once. You are here for the "Lultz" and if trashing someone is part of it, all the better.

"From time to time, I've been kind enough....." Come off it!

 

[DionysusToast]

I
The truth is, a vendor who is able to manipulate a pip on entry, and a pip on exit can put put together a pretty impressive track record simply by tossing a coin.

The question has to be, is it possible to fraudulently claim an entry 1 pip away from where you where actually filled posting entries and exits at a forum. The answer to that question should be bleeding obvious.


It is actually beyod belief that a moderator at a trading forum would fall for this nonsense. Anyone whose actually even attepted to make a few quid from the markets for more than 30 seconds understands how these games are played.

Of course you are right and that is why account statements should be provided.

As for impossible to spot. It is EASY to spot but you have to be bothered to do the checking in the first place and the trade times have to be in seconds.

 

[DionysusToast]

Yes, perhaps, but is the result worth it? How many sincere posters get trashed or do not want the hassle?

None - this was obvious from post 1.

The fact is, you don't see it but others do.

 

[bbmac]

The language used and style of writing indicated that, on the balance of probability it was WS1928 posting under a multi-nic and when challnged during the course of the 'experiment' the writing style/language used betrayed this to an even greater extent. The other discrepancies pointed out during the course of the thread also pointed toward this and if not this - then a poster/thread with dubious/concealed intent - He/She got what they deserved - long may that continue.

As for posting live calls/trades - why would anyone sincere bother unless they are selling something - there is no upside unless you are on some kind of ego-fest. On a medium such as this it is impossible to post live trades anyway unless taking off a long t/f trigger (4hr +) where entry is not so critical. On smaller t/f's it is of no use to the reader as they will always invariably be late if the poster is actually trading (their 1st priority surely ?)

G/L

 

[Splitlink]

None - this was obvious from post 1.

The fact is, you don't see it but others do.

The fact is that there is a Rat Pack on T2W. The "Lultzers". Some choke on their own venom but there is, always, someone new.

 

[the hare]

Of course you are right and that is why account statements should be provided.

As for impossible to spot. It is EASY to spot but you have to be bothered to do the checking in the first place and the trade times have to be in seconds.

Simple statistical analysis would probably pick up the fact that the entries where skewed into the bottom or top half of the bar more than you'd expect. But even thats not as easy as it sounds if trading a market like forex, and I'd probably go as far as to say that the differences in broker feeds are probably greater than the edge you are trying to exploit.

The other issue of course is twitter only timestamps to the nearest minute, and that gives you more than enough latency to pull these kinds of shinnangins. As you say, you'd need resolution down to the second.

The point is, If I can pull a stunt like this using a timestamped entry and exit with twitter, then its a walk in the park to do the same at the zoo. Lets not forget, if I take an entry at 13:30, by the time I open up t2w, and write a post, however brief, its 13:32, 13:33, 13:34 etc.

Lets not mention the fact that edits can be made retrospectively for a few minutes after posting without anyone noticing. Of course, there's always the excuse that that whoever made the post entered the wrong price / time etc.

Its laugable to argue as split is attempting to do that a pip here or there makes no difference. It might not if your making 4 trades a month, but when your making 100 trades a week, on fast timeframes, with trades lasting a couple of hours at the most,that difference of 1-2 pips is the difference between hitting 100% per annum, and blowing an account.

The sickening aspect to this is that the people who pull these stunts do so precisely at forums such as this, and anyone whose spent more than a couple of weeks watching this nonsense soon works out the MO. But despite seeing it 1001 times, mods at T2W still claim to be giving them the benefit of the doubt. The truth is, its just traffic, and a perfect example of the contempt in which members are generally held.

 

[new_trader]

As for posting live calls/trades - why would anyone sincere bother unless they are selling something - there is no upside unless you are on some kind of ego-fest. On a medium such as this it is impossible to post live trades anyway unless taking off a long t/f trigger (4hr +) where entry is not so critical. On smaller t/f's it is of no use to the reader as they will always invariably be late if the poster is actually trading (their 1st priority surely ?)

G/L

It has zero to do with ego or selling. All too often when sincere advice is being given the rebuff by those who are incredulous is usually something like; "What a load of crap, you probably have never traded in your life". That is the sort of nonsense I get bombarded with whenever I tell people to keep stops tight. I have much more respect for people who have the courage to post live trades/calls then those who just recite mainstream textbook drivel.

 

[new_trader]

From this post alone I can tell that you've never traded in your life

I will get one of my students to prove you wrong.

 

[Splitlink]

It has zero to do with ego or selling. All too often when sincere advice is being given the rebuff by those who are incredulous is usually something like; "What a load of crap, you probably have never traded in your life". That is the sort of nonsense I get bombarded with whenever I tell people to keep stops tight. I have much more respect for people who have the courage to post live trades/calls then those who just recite mainstream textbook drivel.

Well said. I think that live calls are the closest one can get to the truth of a poster's skill at trading. Whether it is ego, or not, it is not good for his reputation to be wrong all the time, Correct live calls on a T2W journal will ensure an audience but, on the other hand, is it possible for someone, who trades several times a day, to keep it up and is it worth his while?

The fact is that littleangel made a challenge to her tormentors and the greater the reputaion, on this thread, for being an expert, the more that it is at risk if the challenge is accepted.

Put up or shut up---that's the bottom line.

 

[barjon]

Blimey, you lot really take the biscuit. Do you really think I'm as thick as two short planks (don't answer that, please ).

I went through this, despite knowing the sort of reception you lot would give it, in an attempt to get something we rarely see from vendors and pseudo vendors which is some live , auditable trading.

Yes, little angel was wallstreet. Yes, the trades were almost certainly calls rather than trades. Yes, commissions were unmentioned. Yes, the calls could have been manipulated slightly. Yes, ....everything else you lot have thrown up. But so what? Even as it stands it's a damn sight more than we usually see and miles above the more usual claims of magic backed up by selective history.

You all profess to be so concerned to protect newbies, but ask yourself this. If you had allowed the thread to proceed with just the "trades" with a comprehensive summary and critique at the end by you experts, what newbie in their right mind would have concluded that it was a sound way to trade? As it is you've just left muddy water with stars in their eyes newbies thinking there may be something in it.

jon

 

[DionysusToast]

No Jon - you were fished in.

How many rainbows do you need to check before you stop looking for pots of gold at the bottom?

As for 'selective history' - I was asked to post a live trade, so at that point, I put up a statement of the prior day. I can't do live calls as I'm a day trader. It's not selective, it's on demand. There is a difference.

Anyway - it was only done to encourage the guy to do the same thing.

Live calls + a statement - that would be very hard to fudge indeed. The proof of the pudding is not in the calls but in the statement that backs up money was put on.

 

[DionysusToast]

I will get one of my students to prove you wrong.

Will it be a young blind female Muslim paraplegic on dialysis whose guide dog has just died?

 

[barjon]

............No Jon - you were fished in.......

ok, please yourself, toastie