Dow 2007

Great - I've let a winning trade become a loser by not paying attention and typing messages elsewhere. Not smart.

Edit - I've now got a chance to get out even, but I think I'll hold. A rally into the close may happen, but nobody wins every trade.
 
There we are. Stopped out for -14 including spread. Excellent entry, good trade, totally mismanaged from there on in. I let +15 become -14, didn't get out at BE even after I acknowledged the potential of the trade was greatly diminished, and managed to feed everyone else by covering at yet another high. The good thing is I am still up pips today.

Back down at my entry _again_.
 
Great - I've let a winning trade become a loser by not paying attention and typing messages elsewhere. Not smart.

Edit - I've now got a chance to get out even, but I think I'll hold. A rally into the close may happen, but nobody wins every trade.

That one went from around 13230 to 13180 in the space of a few minutes.

I reckon it's still strugling. I'd stick with it until 13240...

I must say when ever I use short SLs with CMC they always get taken out. It's like a conspiracy. I'm sure it's me so I don't use them when watching the screens anymore.

CapitalSpreads are good I think. No problems so far. They also automatically enter a SL for you. I'm delighted to say I'm up 10% on capital so far since the 15th.

Dissapointed my gold hasn't budged. Still at 660ish... :cry:

Good trading everyone.
 
Covered that one at BE, which turned out to be the high of that bar.

I did well enough earlier, I might as well call it a day. Quite annoyed at myself for those last few trades. Also, moving averages are bull - there is going to be a bounce into EOD and the MAs keep telling me to sell!
 
Covered that one at BE, which turned out to be the high of that bar.

I did well enough earlier, I might as well call it a day. Quite annoyed at myself for those last few trades. Also, moving averages are bull - there is going to be a bounce into EOD and the MAs keep telling me to sell!

I don't know but I managed +31 so far... Depends what time frame you are looking at.

Will go and have some food now.
 
That one went from around 13230 to 13180 in the space of a few minutes.

I reckon it's still strugling. I'd stick with it until 13240...

Yeah, well I've shorted twice for -14 and BE. My bad trade management. Covered the high both times, but I guess someone needs to keep the real traders in nice cars! Price looks like it is being supported here, but lagging indicators won't tell you that. I wonder why I went back to using moving averages at all....
I must say when ever I use short SLs with CMC they always get taken out. It's like a conspiracy. I'm sure it's me so I don't use them when watching the screens anymore.
Good plan - I always get mine taken out on the high or low tick!
CapitalSpreads are good I think. No problems so far. They also automatically enter a SL for you. I'm delighted to say I'm up 10% on capital so far since the 15th.
Glad you are trading well - just promise not to lose a red cent to that shower!

Oh, and price has hit 13,178 cash now - I'm calling a bottom there!
 
And yes, I know the moving averages aren't the problem. If I had used them properly I would have been on the right side of that all along, until I knew where to pick the bottom (cover shorts, not reverse). I think my trading is actually getting worse....

Looks like I called the actual bottom tick there! I wish I had bought it though.
 
Right, I've had enough of this! Sold 13,210 - I smell weakness.

Well that qualifies as a ****ing ooops! Out for -18 including spread. Lost -32 on my last two transactions. The market doesn't reverse that often in a week! I am going to stop here before I hurt my account and cause more emotional damage to myself. I knew it was going to bounce into EOD - I even knew where the bottom tic was. I shorted it out of frustration, and I think I have a subconscious self destructive streak.
 
The irritating thing about that was that my initial short was correct, I let a profit become a loss, I called the bottom correctly and then traded against myself. With that catalogue of mistakes, I should consider myself lucky that I only lost 34 pips and that I can still finish the day up.

Shocking indeed. I think I should stop trading. I've given it a good run, but my recent profits have probably damaged me more as a trader than losing ever did. It has been almost a year now, and I've made no significant progress. I am still prone to the same old schoolboy errors, and that last trade was nothing short of impulsive. I swing from periods of cool disciplined trading, to reckless revenge trading (which is usually brought on by getting the direction right and bollocksing the execution).

I genuinely don't mind being "wrong" and having a losing position. What galls me is being "right" about where the market will go and still losing money.

Straw poll; should I empty my trading accounts and stick the money in the bank, do something else?
 
Sorting out the psychological issues

I let a profit become a loss ...traded against myself. ....catalogue of mistakes...Shocking indeed. ....no significant progress...same old schoolboy errors... impulsive...reckless revenge trading ...being "right" about where the market will go and still losing money.

Straw poll; should I empty my trading accounts and stick the money in the bank, do something else?
LL
I have extracted your own words which suggest that you should step back for some time to sort out your psychology if you wish to continue trading. If you do not do this then the market will empyt your account for you.

I would suggest that you look at "Trading in the zone" by Mark Douglas and similar books you can find in the psychology forum.

It starts with the basics i.e. should you be in trading at all and then, and only then, does it look at the psychology of trading.

Good luck with whichever path you decide to take

Charlton
 
The irritating thing about that was that my initial short was correct, I let a profit become a loss, I called the bottom correctly and then traded against myself. With that catalogue of mistakes, I should consider myself lucky that I only lost 34 pips and that I can still finish the day up.

Shocking indeed. I think I should stop trading. I've given it a good run, but my recent profits have probably damaged me more as a trader than losing ever did. It has been almost a year now, and I've made no significant progress. I am still prone to the same old schoolboy errors, and that last trade was nothing short of impulsive. I swing from periods of cool disciplined trading, to reckless revenge trading (which is usually brought on by getting the direction right and bollocksing the execution).

I genuinely don't mind being "wrong" and having a losing position. What galls me is being "right" about where the market will go and still losing money.

Straw poll; should I empty my trading accounts and stick the money in the bank, do something else?


Well everybody has some losing days. Intraday trading is not good for some.

I think you have been winning recently so take it in your stride.

In some respects my calls are more selective and I'm less eager to enter a trade unless I have certainty as I can't keep watching the screen.

What ever floats your boat as they say...
 
Straw poll; should I empty my trading accounts and stick the money in the bank, do something else?

if a monkey like myself that can barely draw some lines can trade, then so can you.

i think that in your journal i put some rules you should stick to. dunno if u used them. they were actually good rules for what you were going through at the time.

i suggest you reread your own journal, have a good think of the process you went through, and then answer your own poll ;)
 
Thoughts

Yes, it looks like I called the bottom correctly live on these forums. There is no good reason why I shouldn't have at least +20 for that (or +40).

I'm going to respond to some of the points some of you have made. It is truly amazing how many people lurk here and know just the right time to chime in and say something interesting!

Charlton - what you just did was very effective. Believe it or not, I finished Trading in the Zone last week. Some parts were difficult to get through, but I managed in the end (the dog analogy went on for a bit). I am struggling to apply any of what I learned from that book because I still do not have a single system which I use to trade. I trade mostly on a discretionary basis, and because there are so many entry and exit rules I follow (or don't) from time to time, it is impossible to have complete faith in the statistical reliability of any trade I make. I don't have anything I can back or forward test - I just have me, and I don't perform consistently. I have tried a bunch of systems - firewalker99's breakout system barely broke even, and I couldn't tweak it enough to be profitable against SB commissions, Atilla's moving average system is pretty good, but it doesn't always give enough signals for th' way I like to trade, and it seems to get me in long at tops and short at bottoms. The Tick divergence 5m YM system I tried to develop was rightly described by another T2W member as "crap". I don't have a method, and therefore my edge is dependent on what I can read about supply and demand from price and the order book. This works, but doesn't give me consistency.

Atilla - intra day trading is not for everyone. It is especially stupid when spreadbetting. I intend to leave the Dow alone for the time being, and work on position trading forex from daily and 4h bars.

Jacinto - thanks for the advice. I will go through it. Even looking at my journal reminds me of the efforts I have made, the things I have learned, and how far I have come. I don't want to give up just yet, but if I blow the few hundred I have in my CMC account I will. I am a few k into profit, but I've also given the best part of a year to doing this, so I am not letting the market take my profits back. If I blow this account, I will stop. If I recall, I have around £700 in it and trade at £1pp. I'll need around £100 for the margin.

your advice if I recall was about overtrading and not sticking to the plan. I no longer have much of a plan - that needs to be addressed. As for the overtrading - using 4h and daily charts with a plan which prohibits day trading should help. Yes, I need a plan. Half an hour ago I didn't even know what was wrong!

I've also found the post you refer to, and am rather embarrassed that I have taken 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. I am including it in this message because I believe it is something every trader should be reminded of from time to time. The first trade that I lost the -14 on tonight was a profit for awhile, and I was too busy here to be nimble enough. However, everything that followed were trading mistakes. More will follow in my journal later - I need to have another think about my trading - everything from the markets upwards. I am seriously considering trading the Turtle system, as it is entirely mechanical. One of the Original Turtles published it for free after he realised that one of the failed turtles was selling it for $5k.

Lurker,

I have tried to think about the best thing to say. I really dont want to write something that tells you what to do, or what not to do, since, at the end of the day, it will really be up to you to decide. Anyway, instead, I will post several questions, and will answer some of them the way I would answer them myself.

1) I have a plan, do I follow it? Edit: how effective is your method is a different matter...see Edit note below
2) My plan has rules, do I break them?
yes, at times.
3) When I break rules, is there any sort of "enforcement of discipline"
yes. depending on the rule broken, enforcement goes from no trading during the day, to no trading during the week.
4) Do I have a set # of losing trades i can take? yes, if i get 2 losing trades in a row, i take a break. if i have a third losing trade, i stop for the day. if i have 2 losing days in a row, i take 1 day break. etc.
5) Do I have a % of capital I am willing to put at risk in one day (this is related to rule4)? yes. going beyond it implies that "rule enforcement" in rule 4 applies immediately and stop trading for the day.

whenever the "no more trades" applies, I go and have a think of what i am doing wrong.

Basically, there is a need to enforce self control.

1) never chase a profit you missed
2) never chase a loss

I dont know what is worse
a) the feeling of a loss
b) to have entered a trade, and let profit go.


anyway, just writing thoughts. I am not trying to write an essay, or recomendations. just some points to think about. I may be extremely wrong about what I am writing, but at the moment think it is a sensible thing to think of.

take care, and do take a break tomorrow.

j

Edit: The fact that your plan incorporates a method is crucial. If the method is good or not, that is a different matter. Only backtesting or forward testing will say. the key thing is self control and discipline. Firewalker has actually made this point. He is spot on.

Quite recently, I worried that despite my intentions, I would no longer be able to afford to continue trading. The market saves me from this possibility by providing large windfall profits which absorb my initial losses many times over. I try not to read into things like that, but it would be a real shame to stop now. At least I am now in the position where I have managed to make some money overall, so if I quit this (without giving it all back), there will be something to hold onto - it was an interesting and challenging experience which only cost my time.

Once again, thank you to everyone who has offered advice and assistance - it is most deeply appreciated.
 
if a monkey like myself that can barely draw some lines can trade, then so can you.

i think that in your journal i put some rules you should stick to. dunno if u used them. they were actually good rules for what you were going through at the time.

i suggest you reread your own journal, have a good think of the process you went through, and then answer your own poll ;)

I would have thought you are more like a gorilla than a monkey me amigo... Assuming that was a true picture of you before.

I do like your new avatar too. :D You've gone from a big hairy dude to a little less hairy dude.:cheesy:
 
The irritating thing about that was that my initial short was correct, I let a profit become a loss, I called the bottom correctly and then traded against myself. With that catalogue of mistakes, I should consider myself lucky that I only lost 34 pips and that I can still finish the day up.

Shocking indeed. I think I should stop trading. I've given it a good run, but my recent profits have probably damaged me more as a trader than losing ever did. It has been almost a year now, and I've made no significant progress. I am still prone to the same old schoolboy errors, and that last trade was nothing short of impulsive. I swing from periods of cool disciplined trading, to reckless revenge trading (which is usually brought on by getting the direction right and bollocksing the execution).

I genuinely don't mind being "wrong" and having a losing position. What galls me is being "right" about where the market will go and still losing money.

Straw poll; should I empty my trading accounts and stick the money in the bank, do something else?

Blimey, lurker - last week you'd cracked it, this week you're chucking in the towel. P'raps your nick should be lurcherlurcher :) .

A year is no time at all in all this. You seem still at the stage of lurching from idea to idea and - to my eye at least - overtrading like mad. That's fine if you just want to enjoy the excitement of the chase and not worry too much if you make or lose money (like my play account :devilish: ). However, if you want to do this as a business then listen to what everyone's been telling you; forget trading for a while; sort out your precise methodology; test it; trade it small til you're satified with it; then stick to it and ignore all other temptations.

cheers

jon
 
Lurkerlurker

Trading is one of the most stressful job you can do. However, if you get it right it can be one of the most rewarding jobs you can do. Tell you what, write down how you trade PM me and I will tweak it for you to make money, it maybe something simple that you can't see.
 
Hi LL,

Further to the excellent posts above.

1. Do you know, for example, the expectancy, win/loss %, the number of successive wins/losses, the highest wins/losses etc of your trading strategy?
2. Have you written down your trading strategy? Do you keep a summarised version of the rules in front of you like a checklist?
3. Are the entry, exit, stop loss and money management rules clear as water?
4. Are you psychologically comfortable with your strategy, timeframe and trading the Dow?
In my case, I've adapted some third party strategies to fit my personality, I've chosen a 30 min timeframe because I want to see the wood for the trees and wouldn't touch the intraday Dow with a 100 foot bargepole!
5. Do you keep a detailed trading diary including a column to say whether or not you followed your trading rules?

I see trading as a marathon not a sprint.

Please don't give up but take on board the excellent advice you've been given by many T2W members.

Good luck

Fibonelli
 
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