Different or Better?

[smbtnt]

Hi Trendie,

Do not visit forums and do not take heed of Mr X making gazillion pips in Y.
The market speaks different languages to different individuals. Do not flip strats, as that language might not suit you or might dilute the edge and fluency of your language.

 

[Skill Leverage]

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says dont trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

Did he give any reasoning behind this? Seems like a fairly esoteric statement to make.

 

[trendie]

Did he give any reasoning behind this? Seems like a fairly esoteric statement to make.

none other than he is in the know, and they regard anything under 1-hr to be noise. the big guys dont look at sub-1-hr to trade. but then, these guys are trading millions, so it makes sense.
(dont want to start a battle with GJ, as I respect his insights because of his position and experience in the business)

lots of supportive posts.
thanks.

 

[Skill Leverage]

none other than he is in the know, and they regard anything under 1-hr to be noise. the big guys dont look at sub-1-hr to trade. but then, these guys are trading millions, so it makes sense.
(dont want to start a battle with GJ, as I respect his insights because of his position and experience in the business)

lots of supportive posts.
thanks.

Heh I wasn't trying to start an argument (what made you think I was argumentative? ); I was genuinely curious as to why he said this, as I too respect what he's got to say.

Can totally appreciate 5m / 1m being 'noise' to someone trading a much larger timeframe, but for those people trading within those timeframes I'd imagine it's a different story.

SL

 

[PokerBrat]

Trendie, you might want to read this article:

Lessons from the Pros - 02/24/2009 Issue - Featured Article: The Cycle of "IT", Part II

 

[sighthound]

Hello Trendie,
You are free to your own ideas and opinions and the way you like to trade.There's nothing wrong in looking at other methods,but they should really jump out at you or really appeal to the way you trade.As stated you have a method that makes money and has an edge and the reason this works is down to you yourself as well, there's a balance which most traders are looking for.You can always learn new methods and intergrate them into your trading as long as they don't effect the essence of whats making you successful in the first place.

 

[bansir]

Hi Trendie,
Unbelievable; I'm going through a similar patch in demo.

Stuff I read on here can throw me off track, put a spanner in the works.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing; maybe I'll find something which is a better fit.

First I would only use 1min then only 5min. Then I decide let's have a bash with both.
Then I read TD's stuff and bring in 1hr candles.

Now I'm trading all three. The odd thing is, I'm coming to the conclusion that the sort of set ups I go for are available in all these time frames and it just boils down to whether I am happy with the wider stops with higher risk.
Add into the mix that I'm trading a slightly wider range of instruments

Also, at first I would only trade RSI divergences. Then I play S/R trendline breaks.
Then range breakouts, 1-2-3 set ups and inside bars and pin bars.
They all work but not all the time.
Any two combinations of the above are powerful.
I'm not sure if I'm messing up or just gaining experience.

Maybe it's not a case of which is better or which is the most efficient.
Maybe in the end It's down to what you're most comfortable with.

Very Best Regards,
Neil

 

[arabianights]

Did he give any reasoning behind this? Seems like a fairly esoteric statement to make.

It's entirely logical because indeed the orders on that timescale are pretty much at random. My own viewpoint is that traders trading forex succesfully on that time scale are acting as unofficial market makers and essentially trading a mean reverting strategy although they may possibly be able to recognise an order purely from price action. Dunno if Mr Gamma will agree but I could certainly trade fixed income as though I were making a market even with paying the spread although it would be significantly harder.

Another point is that there is no information on a one minute chart that isn't on a four hour chart therefore it's daft to claim that the chart with less info has more info... although it's easier to read.

Again my biggest guess on behalf of Gamma because it's what irritates me the most too since I usually have a reasonable access to order flow is the complete ******** explanations given by people trading off small timeframes (especially phil the bender). The method can easily work but it isn't why you claim it does!

 

[elitejets]

Hi Trendie,
I'm in the same place as you and I have not been trading nearly as long as you.
I am learning Dante's making money system with pin bars and inside and outside bars to give me another tool to confirm the system I am already using. I don't intend to switch, just add more knowledge and a better comfort level to my trading.
If the price action says buy, your system says buy, the reverse cats ears say buy and the twig bird's say buy then maybe there is a chance the buy is a good probability trade.
Nic

 

[elitejets]

You forgot the cats ears ... or reverse cats ears ...

have you tried drawing 800 trendlines on a chart then going Long Oil without a StopLoss ?
That seems a highly popular, effective approach used by at least one "professional" trader

 

[arabianights]

Hi Trendie,
I'm in the same place as you and I have not been trading nearly as long as you.
I am learning Dante's making money system with pin bars and inside and outside bars to give me another tool to confirm the system I am already using. I don't intend to switch, just add more knowledge and a better comfort level to my trading.
If the price action says buy, your system says buy, the reverse cats ears say buy and the twig bird's say buy then maybe there is a chance the buy is a good probability trade.
Nic

If nothing has changed fundamentally and every technical indicator is telling you to buy then sell

 

[hwsteele]

Hi Trendie,
I'm in the same place as you and I have not been trading nearly as long as you.
I am learning Dante's making money system with pin bars and inside and outside bars to give me another tool to confirm the system I am already using. I don't intend to switch, just add more knowledge and a better comfort level to my trading.
If the price action says buy, your system says buy, the reverse cats ears say buy and the twig bird's say buy then maybe there is a chance the buy is a good probability trade.
Nic

Don't forget time cycles also.

Throw it all in a big pot and simmer for three hours. Then your trades will not only have more chance of winning but taste great also!

 

[Skill Leverage]

It's entirely logical because indeed the orders on that timescale are pretty much at random. My own viewpoint is that traders trading forex succesfully on that time scale are acting as unofficial market makers and essentially trading a mean reverting strategy although they may possibly be able to recognise an order purely from price action. Dunno if Mr Gamma will agree but I could certainly trade fixed income as though I were making a market even with paying the spread although it would be significantly harder.

Another point is that there is no information on a one minute chart that isn't on a four hour chart therefore it's daft to claim that the chart with less info has more info... although it's easier to read.

Again my biggest guess on behalf of Gamma because it's what irritates me the most too since I usually have a reasonable access to order flow is the complete ******** explanations given by people trading off small timeframes (especially phil the bender). The method can easily work but it isn't why you claim it does!

Agreed, but wouldn't it also be logical to say that orders on the 4h would appear 'at random' to someone trading a monthly chart? That's what I was curious about; GJ (according to the OP at least) didn't say 'Don't look at the 1m/5m if you're trading off 4hr charts', he just said 'Don't trade anything under 1hr', which seems like a fairly generalised statement to make.

SL

EDIT: Bear in mind that it's a genuine question; I have pretty much zero knowledge of how someone like GJ operates so I could be missing assumptions that most people would make or something similar.

 

[Priceman]

Trendie,

The grass is always greener isn't it?

I'm sure that most don't make anything from strategies that fundamentally work anyway, as they don't have the discipline to do what they're supposed to when certain things happen. Therefore what's said on here or any other board can be 'skewed' to make it look more attractive than it actually is. Or am I being cynical?

At the end of the day trading is a vehicle and if it gives you what you need then why look elsewhere? Of course you have to keep abreast of how your chosen market may change (yours is FX I believe?) and you change and adapt yourself but as soon as you start to dabble you're sure to stop taking money. You may get conflicting ideas to your moneymaking strategies.

Just keep doing what you're doing until it stops working, then look for something else. And stop worrying about others taking more than you, I bet mostly they don't anyway. You'll always find one in a million super-trader who really fckus you off as they make it look so easy and take four times as many pips per day as you. That's the same for all businesses isn't it thoough?

Just 'don't worry be happy' as someone I can't remember sang... now I can't get the whistling out of my head!

All the best

 

[DaxDestroyer]

I am in a state of flux with my trading.
I have a method that has an edge, and makes money. (essentially a pullback to trend, trend-following)

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

If a better system comes along, I am obligated to myself to adopt the best method.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

There are news/momentum-traders, like Mr Charts, and I think, Naz. (US stocks, etc)
There are VWAP traders, like leovirgo, and Grey1. (using maths, probabilities, cycle analysis)
There are breakout players like Newtron-Bomb.

I can understand that different styles are like whether you use Oracle or SAP in your business.

But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesnt everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?

This is causing me some angst.

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says dont trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

I feel I must listen to better trained and experienced players.
I sometimes feel that I have been simply lucky, even though I have been trading full-time for close on 2-years. There is also the nagging feeling I could have made more money if I had adopted a different method.

Are these the emotions every trader goes through, or is still going through?

EDIT: incredible number of "I" in there. perhaps this should have been added to my "Confidence" thread?

As most of the "answers" have already been given, just one point to add from me.

I never saw a successful trader struggle who sticked to the things which made him successful.

BUT!!!

A lot of guys struggled or even failed in trading as they always put more "systems" and "ideas" to work until they lost track of the SUCCESSFUL things, always chasing the newest methods.

Stay on your successful road, don't look for shortcuts

 

[trader_dante]

Because when you get down to the nitty-gritty of trading and you begin to understand what is what and what is not you will see that all of the above is all regurgitated kindergarten stuff that you can read in any textbook or on any website.

new_trader has hit the nail on the head. All the above is extremely basic stuff that has been regurgitated endlessly. It's why it works so well.

"But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesn’t everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?"

I think many people try them at some stage but a lot of people expect them to be something that they are not and therefore do not become profitable with them.

They are not a magic forumla for making money. They are just a representation of what price is doing with the added benefit of being a potent symbol for a lot of market players.

 

[trader_dante]

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

Trendie mate, there is no such thing as "better" in my opinion. A strategy is only as good as the trader that trades it.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

A lot of people are. But as I just responded to New_Traders post, people expect something magic from these bars. They are just a representation of price. Over on potential setups and earlier on MMT you had people going spastic every two seconds saying "pin bar on the 1m time frame etc". They might as well be saying: "price has gone down and come back up again." But they don't seem to see this. So they start blindly taking pin bars left right and centre, not making any money and doing what it seems 95% of everyone does, which is ditch something when its not profitable immediately. I realise pin bars and inside bars etc are simplistic and I realise that some of the self proclaimed "higher echelon" of traders (no names mentioned) like to treat them with derision but the fact is if you trade price action right, it is highly profitable. When I trade pin bars and inside bars exclusively I have over a 90% win/loss ratio with wins 2-3 times as big as losers. Some people may well take all this with a pinch of salt. Let them. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest. I would put my stats up against anyones strategy. Perhaps some would like to come forward and go head to head before they take the p*ss?

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says dont trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

Great advice. I've been saying it for about two years now
The other day the boss at our firm called all the new grads into a meeting. Since they are trading his money he clearly wanted to impart some wisdom so they don't do their cods. And that wisdom? YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO LOOK AT THE 5M OR LOWER. When you bear in mind we are a day trading firm trying to train up scalpers, that is a pretty interesting statement wouldn't you say?

At the end of the day, you should continue with your own method but trial others if you think they are better. You may be surprised. Besides, what do you have to lose?

 

[sighthound]

Trendie mate, there is no such thing as "better" in my opinion. A strategy is only as good as the trader that trades it.



A lot of people are. But as I just responded to New_Traders post, people expect something magic from these bars. They are just a representation of price. Over on potential setups and earlier on MMT you had people going spastic every two seconds saying "pin bar on the 1m time frame etc". They might as well be saying: "price has gone down and come back up again." But they don't seem to see this. So they start blindly taking pin bars left right and centre, not making any money and doing what it seems 95% of everyone does, which is ditch something when its not profitable immediately. I realise pin bars and inside bars etc are simplistic and I realise that some of the self proclaimed "higher echelon" of traders (no names mentioned) like to treat them with derision but the fact is if you trade price action right, it is highly profitable. When I trade pin bars and inside bars exclusively I have over a 90% win/loss ratio with wins 2-3 times as big as losers. Some people may well take all this with a pinch of salt. Let them. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest. I would put my stats up against anyones strategy. Perhaps some would like to come forward and go head to head before they take the p*ss?



Great advice. I've been saying it for about two years now
The other day the boss at our firm called all the new grads into a meeting. Since they are trading his money he clearly wanted to impart some wisdom so they don't do their cods. And that wisdom? YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO LOOK AT THE 5M OR LOWER. When you bear in mind we are a day trading firm trying to train up scalpers, that is a pretty interesting statement wouldn't you say?

At the end of the day, you should continue with your own method but trial others if you think they are better. You may be surprised. Besides, what do you have to lose?

Does'nt this all boil down to what has been said on here before that you can give the same method or system to 20 different people and only a few will be successful.If you jump from one method to another without success is it the method thats at fault or lack of learning and money envy or hoping for a short cut.IMHO you have to really study what you are reading and allow for the time and patience and wether you can stick to it.Not everyone trades the same yet the rules remain constant.

 

[Paul71]

I have a method that has an edge, and makes money.



Capitalise, and stop ****in around.

 

[Claudia123]

I have a method that has an edge, and makes money.



Capitalise, and stop ****in around.

Totally right. If you gotta system that works then get on with it. Mine works well then i tried to 'improve' it and oops. not a good idea. Trading is simple if ya keep it simple. (bit like me)