Really Simon, don't you have pockets deep enough?
Simon, What you say is true ref futures tracking the futures.
The fair value is where SB Firms can increase or decrease quotes by using this fair value (clause) statement.
I know this happends M8, so dont insult my intelegence by saying is dose not.
As for evedence I have it all down in a statement from a SB Firm.
The fair value is where SB Firms can increase or decrease quotes by using this fair value (clause) statement.
I know this happends M8, so dont insult my intelegence by saying is dose not.
As for evedence I have it all down in a statement from a SB Firm.
Simon you say DMA is too expensive ?
Try trading DOW futures for less than £2 per trip = One and a half point spread buy/sell offer
Fu** me M8 who are tring to kid that SB is cheaper than DMA ??
If that was the case there would be no stockbrokers LOL
If DMA is cheaper than SB on the instruments on CBOT CME NYSE I will gladly appoligise.
Now where is your evedence to support that SB is cheaper than DMA ?
Dont insult traders here buy using redicousely high trading fees.
Try trading DOW futures for less than £2 per trip = One and a half point spread buy/sell offer
Fu** me M8 who are tring to kid that SB is cheaper than DMA ??
If that was the case there would be no stockbrokers LOL
If DMA is cheaper than SB on the instruments on CBOT CME NYSE I will gladly appoligise.
Now where is your evedence to support that SB is cheaper than DMA ?
Dont insult traders here buy using redicousely high trading fees.
because you don't control your tick value perhaps?
chilltrader
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,296
- Likes
- 115
F****** hell!! Please tell me you are kidding?
I have never used DMA, but if what you say is true, its one helluva feature!
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
TomTom
trading costs.
CS quotes FTSE 1 pip wide on a fixed spread...no fees etc .. if you watch the FTSE futures how often is it actually 1/2 pip wide (plus all dealing costs). Not often.. it is frequently 2 even 3 wide. CS is still 1 all the time between 0800 and 1730.
equities.... CS quotes 0.1pc around the FTSE 100 equities quote. 0.05pc below bid and 0.05pc above offer. The stamp duty alone on DM is 0.5pc, plus commision, plus full cost to purchase (or limited margin). Equals massive saving on Spread Betting
Mini S&P is actually 2.5 pips wide. CS quotes a clean price 4.0 wide. For most traders the total commission on a round trip on DMA would be more than the extra 1.5.
Dow... CS quotes a fixed 4 point spread.. i realise that theoritically the dow is 1 pip wide but please .. smell the coffee ... most of the time nowadays it oscillates all over the place from 1 to 5 or 6 wide or even more on occasion. Volumes on the dow future have become very thin as well and trying to get your trade on at the price you want is particularly difficult due to the extreme volatility.
In all these instances the margin asked for by the exchanges is many many multiples of that demanded by CS. Also the average bet size of a CS client is under £5. The vast majority of our clients trade in £1 or £2. This is not possible in the majority of exchange traded futures. And if you tried to buy 100 shares in a normal UK company (the equivalent of a £1 bet) the commissions would probably be more than the value of the stock.
You have to add up all the costs of trading. Of course we are not cheaper than the exchanges on some products but in the major ones we are 'comparable' at worst and better some of the time.
SB is not used by institutions because they require the asset (cfd/share/bond) a spread bet only gives you access to the cash difference of a trade. (Also they are a bit miffed that we are honest about what investing actually is...call it trading/investing whatever... it all boils down to you making "a bet" that the market is going to move in the direction that you have forecast.)
chill trader
it is just a function that will not allow a stop to be triggered unless two (or more) prints are made at or through your stop level. In reality how many times does somebody really, truly, get stopped at the exact high or low? And then combine in the question "how many times does the high or low, where i have my stop, just trade once?" Not exactly the kind of odds i would put the house on.
I know we always say "oh i was taken out at the high" but we are really saying "it was near the high"
Simon
trading costs.
CS quotes FTSE 1 pip wide on a fixed spread...no fees etc .. if you watch the FTSE futures how often is it actually 1/2 pip wide (plus all dealing costs). Not often.. it is frequently 2 even 3 wide. CS is still 1 all the time between 0800 and 1730.
equities.... CS quotes 0.1pc around the FTSE 100 equities quote. 0.05pc below bid and 0.05pc above offer. The stamp duty alone on DM is 0.5pc, plus commision, plus full cost to purchase (or limited margin). Equals massive saving on Spread Betting
Mini S&P is actually 2.5 pips wide. CS quotes a clean price 4.0 wide. For most traders the total commission on a round trip on DMA would be more than the extra 1.5.
Dow... CS quotes a fixed 4 point spread.. i realise that theoritically the dow is 1 pip wide but please .. smell the coffee ... most of the time nowadays it oscillates all over the place from 1 to 5 or 6 wide or even more on occasion. Volumes on the dow future have become very thin as well and trying to get your trade on at the price you want is particularly difficult due to the extreme volatility.
In all these instances the margin asked for by the exchanges is many many multiples of that demanded by CS. Also the average bet size of a CS client is under £5. The vast majority of our clients trade in £1 or £2. This is not possible in the majority of exchange traded futures. And if you tried to buy 100 shares in a normal UK company (the equivalent of a £1 bet) the commissions would probably be more than the value of the stock.
You have to add up all the costs of trading. Of course we are not cheaper than the exchanges on some products but in the major ones we are 'comparable' at worst and better some of the time.
SB is not used by institutions because they require the asset (cfd/share/bond) a spread bet only gives you access to the cash difference of a trade. (Also they are a bit miffed that we are honest about what investing actually is...call it trading/investing whatever... it all boils down to you making "a bet" that the market is going to move in the direction that you have forecast.)
chill trader
it is just a function that will not allow a stop to be triggered unless two (or more) prints are made at or through your stop level. In reality how many times does somebody really, truly, get stopped at the exact high or low? And then combine in the question "how many times does the high or low, where i have my stop, just trade once?" Not exactly the kind of odds i would put the house on.
I know we always say "oh i was taken out at the high" but we are really saying "it was near the high"
Simon
Last edited:
FXSCALPER2
Established member
- Messages
- 964
- Likes
- 281
Now Simon says trading the market directly is more expensive and 'restrictive'. This man is pathetic beyond words. I can get in and out whenever I like as fast as I like with someone like IB and it is dirt cheap to trade. With size, you can trade for next to nothing and no restrictions. You have to click a million times to get out of a position with capital spreads.
Last edited by a moderator:
what;'s the point in you posting? all it is is abuse.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
fxscalper
i really have put up with your totally ignorant abuse for far too long. If your statements really were true this thread would not just have the same old names coming up time and again (losers tend to be bitter) but would have hundreds 'yes hundreds' of other complianants. CS has only had one complaint upheld by the FOS in five years (we have only had three actual complaints of any kind made to them in all that time) and that was only because the amount was so small that I could not be bothered to waste time defending ourselves.
I notice that your 'analysis' does not actually contain any facts just foul mouthed insulting ranting... as readers on this thread have become used to
did my statement on trading costs mention FX rates? I think not. BUT Most people trade on FX platforms with spreads pretty much the same or worse than ours. In recent times even the interbank liquidity markets see 4, 5, 6 even 9 point wide quotes on GBP/USD for example. CS contimues to quote 3 pips all the time (even in the middle of the night) and with no comms.
You continually state that you trade with much better platforms but at the same time state that the performance on ours is terrible. How do you know? If we are so bad why do you seem to continue to use us? Or are you just lying?
By the way, on your wonderful FX platform please try to trade in Barclays stock/or the FTSE/ or Oil... the spread betting companies may not be the best at everything but they present thousands of finacial markets in a simple to operate format, at very reasonable cost, to just about anyone on the planet.
Simon
i really have put up with your totally ignorant abuse for far too long. If your statements really were true this thread would not just have the same old names coming up time and again (losers tend to be bitter) but would have hundreds 'yes hundreds' of other complianants. CS has only had one complaint upheld by the FOS in five years (we have only had three actual complaints of any kind made to them in all that time) and that was only because the amount was so small that I could not be bothered to waste time defending ourselves.
I notice that your 'analysis' does not actually contain any facts just foul mouthed insulting ranting... as readers on this thread have become used to
did my statement on trading costs mention FX rates? I think not. BUT Most people trade on FX platforms with spreads pretty much the same or worse than ours. In recent times even the interbank liquidity markets see 4, 5, 6 even 9 point wide quotes on GBP/USD for example. CS contimues to quote 3 pips all the time (even in the middle of the night) and with no comms.
You continually state that you trade with much better platforms but at the same time state that the performance on ours is terrible. How do you know? If we are so bad why do you seem to continue to use us? Or are you just lying?
By the way, on your wonderful FX platform please try to trade in Barclays stock/or the FTSE/ or Oil... the spread betting companies may not be the best at everything but they present thousands of finacial markets in a simple to operate format, at very reasonable cost, to just about anyone on the planet.
Simon
Hello Simon -
As a recent (but satisfied) CS client I would say you are doing a valiant and courteous job at defending CS.
I recently posted on another thread here that the spikes we all seem to see being manufactured to target our stops are just fantasy, and I pointed out that, as CS and another SB company use the same data feed, a spike that one manufactured for their own protection could be very damaging for the other, and, therefore, this was most unlikely to be a real occurrence.
However, within 24 hours, such a spike had occurred on the other platform, NOT replicated on the CS charts and quotes, which made me eat my words. The spike was pre 8:00am on the FTSE100 December, lasted no more than 1 minute, and had a range way beyond other 1-minute ranges at that time, shooting to 30 or 40 points above the prevailing quote. I think that after the 8:00am open, the index rose through the high of the spike.
The evidence of my own eyes tells me therefore that:
a) spikes can be manufactured
b) they can be manufactured by an individual SB company, as well as by the futures market.
Your reassurances on this thread have been very forthright, but what about the future?
Would you be prepared to respond here if users posted what they perceived as a spike, based on your charts and quotes (nobody should expect you to comment on another SB's business practices).
Most of us, myself included, are not anti-SB, have been using SB for some years, and wish to continue to do so. I do not wish to see a company with which I have a partnership unfairly criticised, but I would like to see that it listens and responds fairly to criticism.
As a recent (but satisfied) CS client I would say you are doing a valiant and courteous job at defending CS.
I recently posted on another thread here that the spikes we all seem to see being manufactured to target our stops are just fantasy, and I pointed out that, as CS and another SB company use the same data feed, a spike that one manufactured for their own protection could be very damaging for the other, and, therefore, this was most unlikely to be a real occurrence.
However, within 24 hours, such a spike had occurred on the other platform, NOT replicated on the CS charts and quotes, which made me eat my words. The spike was pre 8:00am on the FTSE100 December, lasted no more than 1 minute, and had a range way beyond other 1-minute ranges at that time, shooting to 30 or 40 points above the prevailing quote. I think that after the 8:00am open, the index rose through the high of the spike.
The evidence of my own eyes tells me therefore that:
a) spikes can be manufactured
b) they can be manufactured by an individual SB company, as well as by the futures market.
Your reassurances on this thread have been very forthright, but what about the future?
Would you be prepared to respond here if users posted what they perceived as a spike, based on your charts and quotes (nobody should expect you to comment on another SB's business practices).
Most of us, myself included, are not anti-SB, have been using SB for some years, and wish to continue to do so. I do not wish to see a company with which I have a partnership unfairly criticised, but I would like to see that it listens and responds fairly to criticism.
why bother
Simon, I'm surprised you bother to respond to some of the baseless negativity on here.
Brick walls; Heads; Against. = waste of your time!
I find it difficult to understand how anyone that is serious about trading (and as a business it doesn't get much more serious than this anywhere) would want to expend so much of their valuable time immersed in such negativity. There's too much money to be made in this business to be bothered by such minutiae. Here's a very basic trading rule often underestimated - if it ain't working, don't waste time trying to fix it, move on. Five minutes complaining is 5 minutes wasted in this business.
Talking about rules maybe it should be a thread rule to back up any complaint with a chart or some proof of the point made. That way we should see less of the keyboard bullies from the half-empty-glass brigade and get some constructive dialogue about any real issues.
Simon, I'm surprised you bother to respond to some of the baseless negativity on here.
Brick walls; Heads; Against. = waste of your time!
I find it difficult to understand how anyone that is serious about trading (and as a business it doesn't get much more serious than this anywhere) would want to expend so much of their valuable time immersed in such negativity. There's too much money to be made in this business to be bothered by such minutiae. Here's a very basic trading rule often underestimated - if it ain't working, don't waste time trying to fix it, move on. Five minutes complaining is 5 minutes wasted in this business.
Talking about rules maybe it should be a thread rule to back up any complaint with a chart or some proof of the point made. That way we should see less of the keyboard bullies from the half-empty-glass brigade and get some constructive dialogue about any real issues.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
tomorton
pre eight on the FTSE all the prices are 'manufactured' but they are generally based on the perception of the opening as per the activity in the dow, s&p and dax futures which are all open and taking into account any corporate announcements that morning. As we approach 8 most of the dealing desks watch the 'uncrossing' on the futures. This can 'wing about' a bit as traders try to 'spoof' the market by putting big buy/sell orders in the pre-opening uncrossing pool and then pulling the order with a few seconds to go.
Most of the SB companies watch the prices of the other SB companies as well to check that no obvious 'arbitrage' oportunities are available. I would be surprised if one SB company spiked their price by 30 pips against the other SBs as there would be nothing to stop all their clients trading in the opposite direction at the advantageous price. If the move was made merely to take out stops then any client who was made aware of it would presumably complain and/or move his business away. As Capital Spreads only quotes 4 pips in pre market hours (others quote from 8 to 6) we are generally inside the quotes of the other SB companies and can therefore demonstrate that our quotes were representative of concensus amongst our peers in premarket conditions.
To be honest we would far prefer not to quote a single market without the underlying 'real' exchange quote to back up our prices but clients really like the fact that they can try to outguess 'the experts' in what is generally a 'toss of the coin' scenario. The FTSE is the only market that we (or most other sb companies) quote outside of exchange hours.
Simon
pre eight on the FTSE all the prices are 'manufactured' but they are generally based on the perception of the opening as per the activity in the dow, s&p and dax futures which are all open and taking into account any corporate announcements that morning. As we approach 8 most of the dealing desks watch the 'uncrossing' on the futures. This can 'wing about' a bit as traders try to 'spoof' the market by putting big buy/sell orders in the pre-opening uncrossing pool and then pulling the order with a few seconds to go.
Most of the SB companies watch the prices of the other SB companies as well to check that no obvious 'arbitrage' oportunities are available. I would be surprised if one SB company spiked their price by 30 pips against the other SBs as there would be nothing to stop all their clients trading in the opposite direction at the advantageous price. If the move was made merely to take out stops then any client who was made aware of it would presumably complain and/or move his business away. As Capital Spreads only quotes 4 pips in pre market hours (others quote from 8 to 6) we are generally inside the quotes of the other SB companies and can therefore demonstrate that our quotes were representative of concensus amongst our peers in premarket conditions.
To be honest we would far prefer not to quote a single market without the underlying 'real' exchange quote to back up our prices but clients really like the fact that they can try to outguess 'the experts' in what is generally a 'toss of the coin' scenario. The FTSE is the only market that we (or most other sb companies) quote outside of exchange hours.
Simon
Hello Simon - A refreshing, honest answer to my mind, thank you. Personally, I am trying to avoid having orders or stops in the maket outside office hours, due to the excess volatility, and you confirm this would be lower risk, thanks for the fair warning. I also appreciate that any spike that takes some stops out is an opportunity for others to get in at an exceptionally favourable price.
(Have a look at your competitors' FTSE100 December chart for 01/12, 07:48am. I said the spike was 30-40pts from memory - actually it was 28pts.)
(Have a look at your competitors' FTSE100 December chart for 01/12, 07:48am. I said the spike was 30-40pts from memory - actually it was 28pts.)
