Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

[Pat494]

An illegal war - Dodgy Dossier - George Bush's poodle - misleading Parliament. Ought to be enough to get started.

Bought and paid for by the USA. $1m a year as their flunkey in the Middle East. But when was the deal made ? Was it before the war started ? At least Wilson kept us out of the disastrous Vietnam war.

 

[hhiusa]

Bought and paid for by the USA. $1m a year as their flunkey in the Middle East. But when was the deal made ? Was it before the war started ? At least Wilson kept us out of the disastrous Vietnam war.

What costs a $1 million/year? It certainly is not the president's salary ($400,000/year). The war cost us $100 million/day. nobody kept anyone out of anything. If you don't want your leaders going to war alongside the US then maybe you should elect stronger leaders. Tony Blair didn't do it all by himself as he can't do much without parliament. Obviously more people than just him wanted to go to war. The bleeding heart lefties are always complaining about war-mongering.

All the bleeding heart lefties also said the Vietnam War was illegal which is untrue. War requires authorization from Congress however the president just initiated the "police action" to mobilize troops there. They have executive powers. Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Nixon cited his power under Article Two of the Constitution.

 

[Pat494]

What costs a $1 million/year? It certainly is not the president's salary ($400,000/year). The war cost us $100 million/day. nobody kept anyone out of anything. If you don't want your leaders going to war alongside the US then maybe you should elect stronger leaders. Tony Blair didn't do it all by himself as he can't do much without parliament. Obviously more people than just him wanted to go to war. The bleeding heart lefties are always complaining about war-mongering.

All the bleeding heart lefties also said the Vietnam War was illegal which is untrue. War requires authorization from Congress however the president just initiated the "police action" to mobilize troops there. They have executive powers. Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Nixon cited his power under Article Two of the Constitution.

Just because Congress agrees a war, doesn't make it internationally legal. Congress operates on the capitalist money system of what do they get in return for their votes. i.e. bribes.
The US hasn't won a war since WW2 and not likely to. They can't even decide who their friends are in the Middle East. Backing failed regimes with trillions of wasted dollars - hopeless.

Why not stick to the things you are good at like music, offering useless advice and ............leave war, diplomacy etc well alone.

All in all Obama has been a breath of fresh air, extracting the US from Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[alexaherself]

The bleeding heart lefties are always complaining about war-mongering.

Don't look now, but so are some of the far-right-wing idiots "libertarians".

All the bleeding heart lefties also said the Vietnam War was illegal which is untrue. War requires authorization from Congress

As is true for so many of the topics on which you like to comment here, that all depends on whether - if at all - you choose to define the terms you bandy about (in this case, the word "illegal") in accordance with one country's internal laws or with international law.

 

[Mr. Charts]

I can't see Blair ever being put on trial as I don't see he has done anything illegal.
Probably not immoral either as he and Bush were told directly on the hot line from god that war was a cracking good idea, go for it, dudes.
I hope it doesn't happen as I couldn't bear seeing him with endless full media coverage.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Not sure if (s)he, god I mean, trumps Congress as the arbiter of righteousness. Probably not.

 

[Pat494]

Not sure if (s)he, god I mean, trumps Congress as the arbiter of righteousness. Probably not.

Funny you should mention trump. That guy is more way out than George Dubbya.

 

[hhiusa]

Just because Congress agrees a war, doesn't make it internationally legal. Congress operates on the capitalist money system of what do they get in return for their votes. i.e. bribes.
The US hasn't won a war since WW2 and not likely to. They can't even decide who their friends are in the Middle East. Backing failed regimes with trillions of wasted dollars - hopeless.

Why not stick to the things you are good at like music, offering useless advice and ............leave war, diplomacy etc well alone.

All in all Obama has been a breath of fresh air, extracting the US from Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is entirely up to Congress and only them, what the US is allowed to do. The US basically functions as the World Bank. We are constantly loaning money to (ahem) small western European countries.

You need not win a war to wage war. That statement is moot but fallacies are your speciality.

If we are bad at so many things, what does that say about a country with an economy 6 times smaller than the US and even smaller still than a non-first-world nation like China. You definitely could use a page from the US playbook.

Stop electing leaders that are tantamount to American henchman.

You need someone like Farage to get away from your America bromance.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Bush on a jury selection list yesterday, but was rejected......can't think why.......

 

[hhiusa]

Bush on a jury selection list yesterday, but was rejected......can't think why.......

What jury? Where do you get that? You do not seem to know much about the American legal system. Certain people are not allowed to serve on juries.

 

[Mr. Charts]

What jury? Where do you get that? You do not seem to know much about the American legal system. Certain people are not allowed to serve on juries.

Is that a fact?

 

[hhiusa]

Is that a fact?

Policemen, firemen, politicians, lawyers etc.,

When I said "not allowed", I meant "exempt".

 

[Mr. Charts]

Policemen, firemen, politicians, lawyers etc.,

So ex-Presidents aren't summoned for jury service, then?
Please enlighten me, as I know very little about the US legal system.
Thanks.

 

[Pat494]

http://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/jury-service/juror-qualifications

 

[Mr. Charts]

http://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/jury-service/juror-qualifications

Thanks for that, Pat. It's always helpful when people post actual facts

 

[hhiusa]

So ex-Presidents aren't summoned for jury service, then?
Please enlighten me, as I know very little about the US legal system.
Thanks.

I never said they weren't summoned. everybody gets a jury summons; however, ex-president still have quite a bit of power and most will choose to not serve. it is not located in any law it is just a de facto practice. Policemen, firemen etc., are summoned whereby they state their profession and are usually exempted. The rich and powerful rarely serve on juries. this is also not a law, it's just the way things are.

 

[Mr. Charts]

What jury? Where do you get that? You do not seem to know much about the American legal system. Certain people are not allowed to serve on juries.

You can see it on one of your favourite sites : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/06/ex-president-george-w-bush-shows-up-for-jury-duty-in-dallas/

 

[hhiusa]

You can see it on one of your favourite sites : http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/06/ex-president-george-w-bush-shows-up-for-jury-duty-in-dallas/

Fox news is not my favorite. I do not get the bulk of my political information from TV. The problem is made clear by people who live thousands of miles away across the Atlantic, who think they know what is going on here. "Trust but verify". Take the information from any media outlet with a grain of research until you do some research. While the law may say one thing, it is not always put into practice that way and with differing results for differing classes.

If you get a DUI, it is supposed to be your record for about 10 years and sometimes there is jail time. If you have money, you can pay the fine and a good lawyer and avoid it hitting your record and most likely receive a "slap on the wrist".

Now I know why new_trader told me "don't argue with i***".

 

[alexaherself]

What jury? Where do you get that? You do not seem to know much about the American legal system. Certain people are not allowed to serve on juries.

And even after all the conversation, and the provision of a US-link to a news story showing a photograph of President Bush attending the court-house to serve as a juror after being summoned for jury service, you STILL don't have the common decency to use the words "Sorry: I may have been mistaken in some of my comments above", because you're too busy continuing to criticise others who replied in the thread?

Astonishing ...

 

[hhiusa]

And even after all the conversation, and the provision of a US-link to a news story showing a photograph of President Bush attending the court-house to serve as a juror after being summoned for jury service, you STILL don't have the common decency to use the words "Sorry: I may have been mistaken in some of my comments above", because you're too busy continuing to criticise others who replied in the thread?

Astonishing ...

Why would I when you misquote me? Just because Bush sat in a jury, does not invalidate my statement that they would not have to. I said they were exempt and that it was a DE FACTO policy. I also said the rules apply differently to wealthy people and those in power. If Bush didn't want to be there he wouldn't have to be there.

misquoting and cherry picking, astonishing!