Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

[Atilla]

Yes, they definitely deserve a ninth MP.......

I look forward to the LDs having more MPs than Labour though ....

I was thinking it would be a fair switch in the roles becoming second party in opposition without the NUC luggage which skews Labour to do the right thing.

All positive imo...

Press are rooting for ultra left victory... Interesting time in politics. With an impending second dip and deep deflation and recession just around the corner, I'm sure fun will be had by all.

 

[hhiusa]

That old adage seems relevant " if you pay peanuts you get monkeys ". and very upset people. If you are part of that 5% elite in the USA you probably need to live behind high fences with security guards ! The democraps don't represent the interests of the poor. Oh no - just another bunch of rich people.

Everyone is going to be so much richer with $0.81/hour and much higher taxes. Let us also allow 13 year-olds to work without a protected wage. Does that sound like a good idea? Why would any parent want their child to work at such a young age? That law sounds as though it needs to catch up to this century.

 

[Pat494]

I am no fan of Marxism and therefore not of Corbyn but if the Tories shoot themselves in the foot often enough with their boobs they might let in the extreme Lefties who need do nothing really. Just prance about mouthing the tired old Communist doctrine. That has failed already so why keep trying it again or are they by Einstein's definition - insane ?

 

[Pat494]

Everyone is going to be so much richer with $0.81/hour and much higher taxes. Let us also allow 13 year-olds to work without a protected wage. Does that sound like a good idea? Why would any parent want their child to work at such a young age? That law sounds as though it needs to catch up to this century.

Where does ... get his figures from ? Nobody but illegal immigrants have to work for 81 cents per hour.
A lot of the poor in the US are in prison ( about 3 million ). Lots of extra jobs to look after them all though. Muggers and thieves etc. following the capitalist road I expect.

 

[hhiusa]

Where does ... get his figures from ? Nobody but illegal immigrants have to work for 81 cents per hour.
A lot of the poor in the US are in prison ( about 3 million ). Lots of extra jobs to look after them all though. Muggers and thieves etc. following the capitalist road I expect.

Dude, $0.81/hour richer!!! $7.25/hour + $0.81 = $8.06/hour, which is the minimum wage in the UK for 18+. While you may be paid slightly higher minimum wages, you have much higher taxes. If you even bothered to read my previous post, you would know I did not state that the minimum wage is $0.81/hour. You are paid the equivalent of $0.81/hour more. £6.50/hour for 21+ is not enough to offset your taxes.

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

 

[Forexmospherian]

Everyone is going to be so much richer with $0.81/hour and much higher taxes. Let us also allow 13 year-olds to work without a protected wage. Does that sound like a good idea? Why would any parent want their child to work at such a young age? That law sounds as though it needs to catch up to this century.

HHiusa

You have let the cat out the bag with the above comment

Jesus - you are a socialist after all and no capitalist.

No right minded right wing Capitalist would turn down getting 13/ 14 year old kids working for a dollar an hour or if pushed give then 2 dollars an hour so to make them feel appreciated etc etc

Just thought though - still no good - Nike and others outsource for 2 dollars a day - so maybe it would not work

Stop having feelings for others - Sod um - get back being a right wing Capitalist - you know it make sense lol

Regards


F

 

[Pat494]

You know how one builds up a picture of someone. Well Biff in that film Back to the Future is about how I see hhiusa. Let's hope no one give him a results book from the future.
The McFlys of this world usually down the bad guys.

 

[Atilla]

You know how one builds up a picture of someone. Well Biff in that film Back to the Future is about how I see hhiusa. Let's hope no one give him a results book from the future.
The McFlys of this world usually down the bad guys.

I was thinking more like the Twins movie...

The products of a genetic experiment, fraternal twins Julius (Arnold Schwarzenegger) and Vincent (Danny DeVito) are separated at birth. Their mother, Mary Ann (Bonnie Bartlett), is told they're dead.

 

[hhiusa]

HHiusa

You have let the cat out the bag with the above comment

Jesus - you are a socialist after all and no capitalist.

No right minded right wing Capitalist would turn down getting 13/ 14 year old kids working for a dollar an hour or if pushed give then 2 dollars an hour so to make them feel appreciated etc etc

Just thought though - still no good - Nike and others outsource for 2 dollars a day - so maybe it would not work

Stop having feelings for others - Sod um - get back being a right wing Capitalist - you know it make sense lol

Regards


F

It is just like you to make free-market capitalism and cutthroat capitalism mutually inclusive and synonymous. It is you, who is creating a false dichotomy. Capitalism values individual rights more than socialism. It is extremely capitalist to pay people very well, whilst it is socialist to equalize pay. I am all for CEOs and even people below them making tons of money. It is high taxes and pensions I have a problem with. I want people to have more money not less which is why I'm against socialism and taxing people to death. By all means pay them more, which will create happier employees and they will work harder, making a more productive economy, then the feckless oafs you get from socialism.

 

[Forexmospherian]

It is just like you to make free-market capitalism and cutthroat capitalism mutually inclusive and synonymous. It is you, who is creating a false dichotomy. Capitalism values individual rights more than socialism. It is extremely capitalist to pay people very well, whilst it is socialist to equalize pay. I am all for CEOs and even people below them making tons of money. It is high taxes and pensions I have a problem with. I want people to have more money not less which is why I'm against socialism and taxing people to death. By all means pay them more, which will create happier employees and they will work harder, making a more productive economy, then the feckless oafs you get from socialism.

Lol

You are just digging a large hole for yourself here

Capitalism value individual rights - more than socialism

Should that not be under the joke of the day thread.

Capitalism - how you want it - puts the buck or profit before individuals

This is so obvious now in the US

See this link

http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcing_wheres_uncle_sam.html

I dont think you and other real right wingers understand the word "balance"

You don't - overtax those who cannot afford it - you don't go shopping around the world to get the cheapest labour force and then FU to all your workers in your home country. Instead ..........

You get a balance - and balance only comes with rules and regulations - not a total free Capitalist economy where the big boys can do what they like - because if that is allowed then the only thing that matters will be profit.

I actually agree with you on your comment about feckless oafs you get from socialism - they are as bad as the devious selfish "me me me" types at the other end of Capitalism.

Somewhere in the middle - you get the "mean" the 60 - 70 - 80 % of people who understand balance and getting something that will work across the "range" and not just work for 10 or 20 % of the extremes of both Capitalism and Socialism

 

[hhiusa]

Lol

You are just digging a large hole for yourself here

Capitalism value individual rights - more than socialism

Should that not be under the joke of the day thread.

Capitalism - how you want it - puts the buck or profit before individuals

This is so obvious now in the US

See this link

http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/02/outsourcing_wheres_uncle_sam.html

I dont think you and other real right wingers understand the word "balance"

You don't - overtax those who cannot afford it - you don't go shopping around the world to get the cheapest labour force and then FU to all your workers in your home country. Instead ..........

You get a balance - and balance only comes with rules and regulations - not a total free Capitalist economy where the big boys can do what they like - because if that is allowed then the only thing that matters will be profit.

I actually agree with you on your comment about feckless oafs you get from socialism - they are as bad as the devious selfish "me me me" types at the other end of Capitalism.

Somewhere in the middle - you get the "mean" the 60 - 70 - 80 % of people who understand balance and getting something that will work across the "range" and not just work for 10 or 20 % of the extremes of both Capitalism and Socialism

Who said anything about taxes upon the poor? England may provide more services but you certainly taxes a great deal more.

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.

The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control.

 

[alexaherself]

if the Tories shoot themselves in the foot often enough with their boobs they might let in the extreme Lefties

Indeed, but that's still arguably preferable to shooting themselves in the boobs with their feet. :|

 

[Pat494]

I would say a shoe-in for Burnham

 

[Pat494]

Indeed, but that's still arguably preferable to shooting themselves in the boobs with their feet. :|

When in doubt apply cold cream and massage gently



or when inflamed ice cream and ...............

 

[Pat494]

I would say a shoe-in for Burnham

Those Unions are lining up behind Corbyn ?
Is he offering a dose of Marxism or undiluted Communism ?
Already I am checking under the bed.

 

[hhiusa]

I agree socialism has never had the answer to economic competition. It's more of a happy families club for unions etc.
However there may be an answer that would knock the socks off greedy boss driven capitalism. They could re-invent THE TEAM. Particularly in Britain the companies split into 2 teams within every company. The bosses/management on the one hand and workers on the other. Well no team that is so basically divided has a hope of winning the business battle. Even surviving is tough.
If Labour made this their central platform with a union member on the board I think they might live again. It works in Germany and it can work here.
They could tackle the inequality of wages/salaries. They should encourage employees to be on a graded scheme of say 10 ranks. The bosses should not be on massive salaries while the rest fight over the crumbs as it is even in the BBC.

Highly unlikely. The less socialism an economy has, the greater its economy. As China sheds its communist policies, it increases its economy evermore.

UK < Germany < US.

 

[Pat494]

I see Corbyn might put Tony Blair on trial for war crimes in Iraq if he gets in.
What comradely love among the Lefties ?

 

[0007]

I see Corbyn might put Tony Blair on trial for war crimes in Iraq if he gets in.
What comradely love among the Lefties ?

Blair a Lefty ??? LOL! But the squabling is entertaining and Dave is probably laughing his socks off.

 

[hhiusa]

Blair a Lefty ??? LOL! But the squabling is entertaining and Dave is probably laughing his socks off.

I think he cannot decide which party he is for. Moderates are worse than the left. Why would he be brought up on war crimes? Incindiery as always @Pat494!

 

[0007]

.......... Why would he be brought up on war crimes? ...............

An illegal war - Dodgy Dossier - George Bush's poodle - misleading Parliament. Ought to be enough to get started.