2 things, who stole my nuggets and get in there Virtuoso is back...

  • Thread starter Black Swan
  • Start date
  • Watchers 7
Dommo said:
All right, this is hilarious - now how do I sign up?
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No idea, but tbh if a few of them did step up to the plate and trade *live* it'd be a better place to direct noobs too surely? Might cause the never ending stream of snake oil vendors to pause for thought before polluting?
 
Black Swan said:
No idea, but tbh if a few of them did step up to the plate and trade *live* it'd be a better place to direct noobs too surely? Might cause the never ending stream of snake oil vendors to pause for thought before polluting?
Click to expand...

Maybe too many newbies would just hang on to their coat tails to make a few bob rather than seriously trying to learn. For those who do seriously want to learn it then becomes quite an effort to answer their questions and explain things in a way they understand.

I think it would be good if a few gave some broad idea of how they go about their trading, particularly on the money management front as well as their basic strategy. Do they work to rules? Tight or loose? Do they run single positions or build positions? Things like that.

jon
 
The vast majority of newcomers to trading have no interest in learning about money management or psychology, I wasn't an exception. It's the thrill of learning some new special insight (trend lines, indicators, pivots, finding a guru) and then placing a trade when the RSI breaks up above 30, or something similar.

What interested me about the 4x thread was that on one side were some experienced traders saying "it's smoke and mirrors, money management is atrocious, P/L swings make this strategy impossible to follow" and on the other were the inexperienced traders saying "never mind that, I want to see his predictions", which kind of proves my point.

Human nature is fairly unchanging, which is why t2w will forever contain recycled themes with broadly similar responses. The usernames might change, but the content doesn't.
 
meanreversion said:
The vast majority of newcomers to trading have no interest in learning about money management or psychology, I wasn't an exception. It's the thrill of learning some new special insight (trend lines, indicators, pivots, finding a guru) and then placing a trade when the RSI breaks up above 30, or something similar.

What interested me about the 4x thread was that on one side were some experienced traders saying "it's smoke and mirrors, money management is atrocious, P/L swings make this strategy impossible to follow" and on the other were the inexperienced traders saying "never mind that, I want to see his predictions", which kind of proves my point.

Human nature is fairly unchanging, which is why t2w will forever contain recycled themes with broadly similar responses. The usernames might change, but the content doesn't.
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Some people just tired of the endless MM debate. Anyone aware of MM but uncomfortable with 4x particular risk/MM scheme ought to see that it's trivial to dilute risk to taste. The contentious thing about that thread was its title.
 
Yes, the title was very similar to the infamous medbs thread "Holy Grail 100% winning system".

Van Tharp recounts an anecdote in his book about when he attended a trading conference. One of the most popular speakers gave a presentation on how to pick tops and bottoms.. the attendance was huge and everyone was taking notes. Afterwards, Tharp spoke to the chap (who ran a fund) and asked him if he had always traded like that. The guy replied that he never traded like that, he was a trend follower but people weren't interested in that, they wanted to hear predictions and to second-guess the market, so that's what he gave them.
 
barjon said:
Maybe too many newbies would just hang on to their coat tails to make a few bob rather than seriously trying to learn. For those who do seriously want to learn it then becomes quite an effort to answer their questions and explain things in a way they understand.

I think it would be good if a few gave some broad idea of how they go about their trading, particularly on the money management front as well as their basic strategy. Do they work to rules? Tight or loose? Do they run single positions or build positions? Things like that.

jon
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This would be excellent. I'm not going to argue about 4x or any one else again because I can't be bothered but a place for noobs to be directed to with this kind of information would be of immense value.

I agree live calls probably wouldn't be too good because the thread would just fill with followers taking every trade shown and that wouldn't be beneficial to anyone.

I think the problem is, the experienced guys (with all the best intentions) make their points in threads created by these 'snake oil' types but don't disclose their own strategies where as the people being questioned, who seemingly want to help the noobs, actively suggest trading idea's and techniques - sometimes this is just to suck people in to later paying for something, sometimes not.

But then why should you guys bother to share your idea's? These are afterall what makes you profitable. Why should you put the time in to help a load of strangers when you had to work hard to get where you are? I see why things are the way they are but even so, a thread where all of the experienced guys get together and share some of their idea's would be beneficial to all.
 
meanreversion said:
Yes, the title was very similar to the infamous medbs thread "Holy Grail 100% winning system".

Van Tharp recounts an anecdote in his book about when he attended a trading conference. One of the most popular speakers gave a presentation on how to pick tops and bottoms.. the attendance was huge and everyone was taking notes. Afterwards, Tharp spoke to the chap (who ran a fund) and asked him if he had always traded like that. The guy replied that he never traded like that, he was a trend follower but people weren't interested in that, they wanted to hear predictions and to second-guess the market, so that's what he gave them.
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lol - aye, there's been a shed load of similar threads - the common feature is always the no stop loss tactic.

Funnily enough, I reckon a lot of the thread starters truly believe they've cracked it because you can sometimes go a pretty long time dodging the punches before a haymaker or two arrives and knocks you clean out of the ring.

jon
 
LiamH said:
This would be excellent. I'm not going to argue about 4x or any one else again because I can't be bothered but a place for noobs to be directed to with this kind of information would be of immense value.

I agree live calls probably wouldn't be too good because the thread would just fill with followers taking every trade shown and that wouldn't be beneficial to anyone.

I think the problem is, the experienced guys (with all the best intentions) make their points in threads created by these 'snake oil' types but don't disclose their own strategies where as the people being questioned, who seemingly want to help the noobs, actively suggest trading idea's and techniques - sometimes this is just to suck people in to later paying for something, sometimes not.

But then why should you guys bother to share your idea's? These are afterall what makes you profitable. Why should you put the time in to help a load of strangers when you had to work hard to get where you are? I see why things are the way they are but even so, a thread where all of the experienced guys get together and share some of their idea's would be beneficial to all.
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Frankly if "newbies" (man I hate that term) read "Market Wizards", "Trade your way to financial freedom" and "Trading in the Zone", which would take a month at most, they would be half way there already. But many can't be bothered, they sort of want to be spoon fed or have their hand held.
 
The irony is there is very good advice on t2w, the problem is it's buried under mounds of dog poo. But even so, don't underestimate the ability of people to hear what they want to. If a "guru" advocates risking up to 20% of capital (total madness) in order to make 100%, when someone sensible says "that's far too much risk", the beginner replies "I don't care about his money management, I want to hear his prediction".

Do you see how this works?
 
If you think most guys who are competent are going to call out live trades you're on shrooms :LOL:

And that even assumign their trades were replicatable, which they almost always wouldn't be.
 
meanreversion said:
The irony is there is very good advice on t2w, the problem is it's buried under mounds of dog poo. But even so, don't underestimate the ability of people to hear what they want to. If a "guru" advocates risking up to 20% of capital (total madness) in order to make 100%, when someone sensible says "that's far too much risk", the beginner replies "I don't care about his money management, I want to hear his prediction".

Do you see how this works?
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There's a difference between wanting to hear their prediction and buying into their money management techniques. These are not the same things.

There is a lot of good stuff on T2W, agreed. It is, as you have pointed out, very difficult to find without coming across yet another "guru". This is why I think a thread as mentioned above would be a good idea.

In the same breath I also understand why you guys might not want to do it.
 
arabianights said:
If you think most guys who are competent are going to call out live trades you're on shrooms :LOL:

And that even assumign their trades were replicatable, which they almost always wouldn't be.
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What about a two day lag on posting. I'd find the methodology and thought process very interesting.
Presently, in my mind, "long pin bar with stochastic confirmation at previous turning point" is akin to "she's studded from a real winner and her trainer is a beast".
I've realised I know so little about how these things actually operate on the professional (market moving) level I honestly can't even form an trade-able opinion on a market any more, although that's probably a blessing.
 
arabianights said:
If you think most guys who are competent are going to call out live trades you're on shrooms :LOL:

And that even assumign their trades were replicatable, which they almost always wouldn't be.
Click to expand...

I thought about this a while back, just having a squawk, spitting out the trades you take on, for example, the Euro off a 5-10 min TF, but getting the rules right up front. On the lines of; "don't fookin bore me with any Q's alright? You get told when to get in, when to get out endex, if you stare at the same charts over a long enough period of time the PA will sink in, if not just keep giving me 100 quid a month...Any questions? No? Right then, jog on, let's trade..." :D

Btw is replicatable a word..?
 
scose-no-doubt said:
What about a two day lag on posting. I'd find the methodology and thought process very interesting.
Presently, in my mind, "long pin bar with stochastic confirmation at previous turning point" is akin to "she's studded from a real winner and her trainer is a beast".
I've realised I know so little about how these things actually operate on the professional (market moving) level I honestly can't even form an trade-able opinion on a market any more, although that's probably a blessing.
Click to expand...

:LOL: 'kin priceless, coffee spluttering over monitor priceless..:cool:
 
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