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Black Swan
Not really, I just wanted to highlight something you mentioned in your reply.
2 things, who stole my nuggets and get in there Virtuoso is back...
- Thread starter Black Swan
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Not really, I just wanted to highlight something you mentioned in your reply.
Ok. So what do we do now? I suggest that we sit and glare at each other in silence for 30 minutes.
virtuos0
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The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind.
I went back to school. I've been doing my masters in finance/economics. I don't need it for a job (God forbid that I ever have to work for anyone again) but just did it for my own amusement.
I see that this place is still knee-deep in snake oil, but who would have it any other way.
B
Black Swan
Paul! will mail you that pdf tonight..sorry...
B
Black Swan
Let me educate you as to the real reasons why these guys eventually flounce, it's when proper traders like Martinghoul, Gooseman, BBmac, Arabian or TD kinda get quizzical and interested and ask them what I term the the brick wall questions, you know the type of questions in an interview that you struggle with. Then they do a Mallificent and vanish...
I don't know how many times this has to be said... Those questions were answered - He used no stops and too much leverage. This isn't the point.
Did I or anyone else not have a right to be interested in the other things he had to say?
You think I bought in to the whole 100% per month thing but you're wrong. All I am looking for is idea's and 4x was treated really quite badly for no real reason.
robster970
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Worth it? I ask because I'm torn between doing another batchelors (this time in art rather than a natural science) or doing a year's worth of MA, strangely in economics.
Same motive as you - purely educational rather than necessary for employment.
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Black Swan
Mt too, you looked at distance courses from perhaps Oxford or UCL?
robster970
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No - I think I'd struggle doing it as a distance course, too many distractions at home. Same fee structure as a full time course?
meanreversion
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After about 30 pages of claiming he was God's gift, 4x produced a grainy image of an account which "backed up" his claims. I looked through it a little.. firstly the account balance was zero, so presumably it was a demo account (maybe he mentioned this, I don't know). Secondly, the total P/L number was given as +29k but it you added up the individuals it was +20k. Thirdly, if his starting equity was (e.g.) 20k, then it went something like +20 -> +5 -> +25 -> +15 -> +40 (hands up anyone who thinks this is a sustainable way to trade).
Fourth, there were about 30 trades there, this is not sufficient to claim trading genius.
So - for those people who realise him for the lying charlatan he is, what would you have us do? Say nothing and let less experienced traders think 4x actually has the slightest idea of how to trade? Why don't the moderators start a new section where in order to reply you must have fewer than 200 posts.. that would allow (ab)users like 4x to post to their heart's content.
Fourth, there were about 30 trades there, this is not sufficient to claim trading genius.
So - for those people who realise him for the lying charlatan he is, what would you have us do? Say nothing and let less experienced traders think 4x actually has the slightest idea of how to trade? Why don't the moderators start a new section where in order to reply you must have fewer than 200 posts.. that would allow (ab)users like 4x to post to their heart's content.
I haven't looked at the statement in any detail but what I have done is gone through a lot of his time stamped calls on where market will head next and they are mostly right.
Whether his strategy is a goldmine or not is irrelevant, I and others were interested in other things he may have to say.
You, BS and FX all hammered him over and over again with the same stupid questions and accusations... To the point where he left. This is out of order because up to that point you knew nothing, you only had assumptions.
You cannot base an opinion on assumptions.
I give up talking about it now anyway. You guys take such a blinkered view that it's impossible to reason with you.
I understand he uses no stops, stupid leverage and has a link to a questionable site on his blog. This is all irrelevant provided we know this and are still interested in what he has to say.
Let others make their own decisions, make your point and then shut up. No need for what happened in that other thread.
There was sone interesting and informative stuff in that thread. However the decent trading "nuggets" were not shown by 4x but rather by some of the experienced traders that called him up on basic issues such as money management. To new traders (and LiamH without wanting to come across as patronising I'm guessing you are fairly new at the game, which of course is fine) the trading strategy in terms of where to enter and exit trades is everything. Any experienced (several years plus) traders know that this is just perhaps 30% of the business, money management is the key to staying in the game. So it was only reasonable that these questions were asked, particularly as the threads was entitled (by 4x) "How to make 100%". It subsequently came out that he is not making 100% at all as he doesn't count his "reserve funds" and plus he would own the World by now if he was doubling his account every month.
His entries may have been useful to know but given the fact that he seems to be countertrend trading that sort of strategy must include stops. So given that entries may account for perhaps 15% of the performance of a successful trader he was not imparting that much knowledge. The danger is that someone who wants to learn would try to copy what he does and would almost certainly lose their money.
Probably some of the other posters could have been a bit less harsh but it is more akin to a parent shouting at a child not to put their hand in the fire.
His entries may have been useful to know but given the fact that he seems to be countertrend trading that sort of strategy must include stops. So given that entries may account for perhaps 15% of the performance of a successful trader he was not imparting that much knowledge. The danger is that someone who wants to learn would try to copy what he does and would almost certainly lose their money.
Probably some of the other posters could have been a bit less harsh but it is more akin to a parent shouting at a child not to put their hand in the fire.
meanreversion
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I had no assumptions to begin, in fact I posted early on I was looking forward to reading the thread. My questions to him were later -
1. How much of your account do you risk per trade?
2. What is the maximum drawdown you have sustained/are prepared to tolerate?
3. Do your percentage returns relate purely to the money in your brokerage account or to your overall trading capital?
What ridiculous and stupid questions!
squall321
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Hmmmm....'ang on a mo Split...
OK, firstly I don't do internet bullying/finding victims, I tend to pick my own fights and go at it one 2 one..But with ref. to 4 times tables I put him on ignore after reading his *stuff* on day two of his debut (latest debut?) and hardly got involved in the reams of pages he spewed out/encouraged, similarly medsb, the expert, that other beaut 50 pips..and there's other multi nic trolls who I cba naming, I tend to watch from the sidelines whilst managing swing trades...
IMO Arabian summmed it up best, to paraphrase; It's always astounding how so many want to believe that one guy on the interweb is going to offer up something different to help turn their trading around, be the one, the saviour...
FFS we all know what's required in trading, systems are bo11ocks, I'll repeat ad nauseum; we can all find 20+ *systems* in our locker that'll get us the right side of forex trades for a short period of time nine times out of ten, so what? MM and psyche is everything in this game, or if you want to try and put a % on it, 90%. Do these guys help you with MM and getting your nut in the game? Do they fook..and on that subject that's where real trading mentors come in, but imho there's not many and the majority cba taking on clients. But I'll bet you a pound to a penny the first thing they work on is getting the head right and the MM, not some new gastric band, letting out foul gas in the cloud, *system*...
Anyone asking questions/prompting new guru debutants for answers reveals so much re. their own failings and where they are in their own learning curve, not trading learning curve, but life learning curve. You're grown men FFS, hoping, believing, in some cases trusting that a new guru will save you, will show you the light, a guru that only found arguably the most popular retail trading forum out there in the last 3 months. The first question to all these beauts should be "heh man, where have you been for the past ten years, couldn't you find the interweb?" Oh and please don't give me the being open to new ideas nonsense...
So if the next one comes along heh I might have some fun, is it any of my business? Only on the basis that I'd rather not visit T2W and click new posts to find out of 50 they're dominated by suspect trolls.. but heh..may be one will turn out to be the saviour..but I doubt it.
And to finish, in the years you've been coming here tell me if any one of these medsb, the expert, 4pips, 50 pips, wasp characters made their debuts, then opened a private trading room on T2W, and did a first class mentoring job?
so much truth in this post
but, you have to remember back to when you first came into this racket, and what it's like being a newb again.
you think you are on the "outside" and they are on the "inside", and why won't the "insiders" just TELL what they know, why won't they say a little bit about their EDGE for you, just a crumb.
but then you realise you are alone and NO ONE IS COMING TO HELP YOU, and everything you will have to do by yourself even if it takes years and years, and you can either suck it up and get on, or whine like a pussy, or keep following all the new gurus
OK, using the word stupid was a bad move. What I meant was, once you knew that he uses no stops and crazy leverage these questions became stupid.
First time you asked they were spot on but after that, completely pointless.
I'm not disagreeing with your initial concerns, just what went on after that.
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Black Swan
Liam your dissembling on the sequence of events is pathetic and getting on my tits tbh, stop being revisionist and pushing your selective memory, you are making a right tw@t out of yourself on this. Just re-read the piece you wrote that I've highlighted for you in red, why would any trader, fledgling or otherwise be interested in that ffs..? And I never "hammered him", hardly got involved tbh and I'll repeat what I posted earlier he flounced when; bbmac, Arabian, Hoggums, Martinghoul, MR etc.etc. questioned him. Nowt to do with me, like I give a fook anyhow. Before their *involvement* and interest he was happy being a grade A whopper, clucking away with his nonsense, with each nugget thinking; "I'm onto something here, might have caught a few flounders..."
Now grow the fook up and move on..properly this time..but if you want to have the last word then take a deep breath fill your boots, the floor is yours...
counter_violent
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I'm not jumping on anybodies band waggon here ( been there done that ) but.... Liam, have you considered taking up Martinghouls offer in t'other thread ? If you ask him nicely, he may be persuaded to start a journal
B
Black Swan
Amen to this..
B
Black Swan
I'm not jumping on anybodies band waggon here ( been there done that ) but.... Liam, have you considered taking up Martinghouls offer in t'other thread ? If you ask him nicely, he may be persuaded to start a journal
Alright stranger, IMHO it's about time a few of the more experienced guys stood up to the plate, came to a deal with you at T2W towers, and started some more private trading rooms to prevent all *this*..
