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This is a discussion on my journal within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by tenbobtrader "I like swimming. One day I'd like to go live by the sea" which F..ckin day ...

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Old Sep 27, 2009, 1:02pm   #106
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenbobtrader View Post
"I like swimming. One day I'd like to go live by the sea"

which F..ckin day ?
SUNday obviously
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 1:19pm   #107
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighbridge View Post
Good journal. I enjoy stories about people achieving success, and there's a real sense that you're on the cusp of it here. After all, money is already pouring through the door from your bots. Everything is in place except for the final piece, which is to limit this compulsion to trade/gamble.

If I may make an observation... The discretionary trading and delaying going to bed might share a common cause - craving mental stimulation. Hope you've got something interesting to keep you occupied while you go cold turkey.

Best of luck.
Very short and yet very deep post. Whether you read all my posts or just a few of them, it seems that you've figured out a lot about me.

"Craving mental stimulation" or being "obsessive-compulsive" or "workaholic", I don't know how to describe it. Certainly close to being unable to relax. Also, flipping channels continuously while watching tv... we are all complex. I wish I could have spectrum of personalities, but not just 16 types, more like 200, and we could all say "I am personality number X", so we wouldn't be writing pages every time to describe how we feel and how we are. Forums then would be empty (and reasonably so): everyone would write a post saying "I am personality X". But then, if we had 200 personalities, we would not stay on one specific spot of the spectrum, but probably move around, say from 169 to 179, or even move all the way to 69. Anyway, I don't have time to be a scientist about this as well.

Here's an update on how I'm feeling and what I am doing:

Spent yesterday and today (on top of all work done during the whole month of September, in the previous weekends) creating, testing and fixing another 13 systems, and doing the same to improve reliability of 7 old systems. Overall, I will have 37 systems now. This will mean, most likely, about 10 trades per day guaranteed. Most likely it will mean a "machine" that guarantees all positive weeks (I almost get that already with 24 systems). I am not exaggerating or joking. It is a money-making machine, and I created it. Not that I am trying to sell anything - by now it's clear obviously. What I am getting at is this:

With all the trades being made by this "machine":
I hope I won't feel the need to interfere (looking for more action)
I hope I won't feel the need to make more money
I hope I won't even think I'll be able to interfere successfully

I'll just have to let it run. Here I am, with this great tool in my hands, and yet I have very little capital because every month, for every 1000 dollars that the system makes, I first help it by making another 500 by engaging in discretionary trading, and then proceed - via discretionary - to losing the 500 made, plus the 1000 made by the system. I've been getting to 500% several times in the past two years, and going back to zero each time, including this last accident that happened a couple of days ago.

There's no talking or writing that will help me. It's not a question of understanding your addiction. You'll never understand it enough to quit effortlessly.

Actually spending time to talk about and explain your addiction may be just a way of postponing the act of quitting. I remember that more than once I went on a forum writing about what a jerk I was for losing money with discretionary trading again and at the same time I had a discretionary trade open which was supposed to be my "last trade", my last "Hail Mary" trade, to get back what the market owed me, and then I would quit. The problem is that even when the market returned to me what it had "stolen" (in my mind), that would keep me going a few trades longer, enough to return everything I had made plus more. If you lose, you'll keep going out of vengeance. If you win, you'll keep going out of greed. In either case you will keep going until you blow out your account.

And that it has pretty much happened I am forced to quit, but I am left with a feeling that the market owes me something, and not to me as an automated trader, but to me as a discretionary trader. So, with the little capital left, possibly, the system will bring me up to a decent capital again, and then, as it has been the case so far, I will feel that I can get my money back with discretionary trading, because that's how it stole it from me. Or maybe it's not against the market that I am fighting but against myself: I want to prove to myself that I can do it. I want to "not give up". It may all come down to the two meanings of quitting (positive vs negative). On the one hand I rationally know that I may have an addiction and that I need to "quit" that addiction. On the other hand I feel the urge to overcome my limits by finally becoming profitable with discretionary trading, and in that sense I don't want to "quit" the race (to overcome my limits). With smoking it's different because no one remotely thinks that he's overcoming his limits by smoking and learning how to smoke. Or maybe smoking makes them feel free, to act however they want regardless of consequences. Maybe quitting smoking is close to quitting your freedom to do whatever you want, and that's why they can't do it.

Overall, I don't have the mind fit to trade - the past showed it repeatedly. The question is do I want to make money, or do I want to just learn discretionary trading or die trying? In a few months I'll know the answer. But wait - who knows? Maybe I'll be ok for a year, and I'll relapse in 3 years or so. One thing is sure: I never solved anything regarding this problem by talking about it on forums, and I've been doing it for years. But then again I've never even seen myself as a "gambling addict" until a few days ago. So maybe talking and writing and reading has made improve somewhat.

Maybe all these years I have been nothing but a compulsive gambler, a sick person - I never saw it this way until now. A compulsive gambler who has been working on trading systems (also in a compulsive way, which in this case pays off) and this may save me in the end - it may make me profitable. But nonetheless a part of me has been sick, irrational, delusional. I think it's quite striking that a person can do both things at once. Half of the time he's a rational, patient, self-taught programmer, who reads hundreds of pages of an excel manual, tests hundreds of systems, spends thousands of hours working on the creation and automation of his trading systems. The other half of the time, he looks at the trading platform, and, whatever his state of mind (bored, frustrated, happy), sees opportunities for trades that usually work out, but that when they don't work out blow out his account. Half of the time rational. The other half, he still tries discretionary trading, after losing money every month, for 12 full years, ever since he started - blowing out his (small) account an average of 3 times per year. I have been these two persons. I certainly would like stop being the sick one, and would like to spend all my time and money as an automated trader.

Maybe I could go as far as saying that my sickness is not as rare among traders. I would even say that all discretionary traders who go on losing for over 2 years are showing some form of sickness, as if they caught a disease or so. The healthy ones would stop trading with real money sooner and would start paper trading. But the healthiest ones would be the ones who don't start trading real money until paper trading proves they are profitable.

Last edited by travis; Sep 27, 2009 at 2:05pm.
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 1:40pm   #108
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
Very short and yet very deep post. Whether you read all my posts or just a few of them, it seems that you've figured out a lot about me.

"Craving mental stimulation" or being "obsessive-compulsive" or "workaholic", I don't know how to describe it. Certainly close to being unable to relax. Also, flipping channels continuously while watching tv... we are all complex. I wish I could have spectrum of personalities, but not just 16 types, more like 200, and we could all say "I am personality number X", so we wouldn't be writing pages every time to describe how we feel and how we are. Forums then would be empty (and reasonably so): everyone would write a post saying "I am personality X". But then, if we had 200 personalities, we would not stay on one specific spot of the spectrum, but probably move around, say from 169 to 179, or even move all the way to 69. Anyway, I don't have time to be a scientist about this as well.

Here's an update on how I'm feeling and what I am doing:

Spent yesterday and today (on top of all work done during the whole month of September, in the previous weekends) creating, testing and fixing another 13 systems, and doing the same to improve reliability of 7 old systems. Overall, I will have 37 systems now. This will mean, most likely, about 10 trades per day guaranteed. Most likely it will mean a "machine" that guarantees all positive weeks (I almost get that already with 24 systems). I am not exaggerating or joking. It is a money-making machine, and I created it. Not that I am trying to sell anything - by now it's clear obviously. What I am getting at is this:

With all the trades being made by this "machine":
I hope I won't feel the need to interfere (looking for more action)
I hope I won't feel the need to make more money
I hope I won't even think I'll be able to interfere successfully

I'll just have to let it run. Here I am, with this great tool in my hands, and yet I have very little capital because every month, for every 1000 dollars that the system makes, I first help it by making another 500 by engaging in discretionary trading, and then proceed - via discretionary - to losing the 500 made, plus the 1000 made by the system. I've been getting to 500% several times in the past two years, and going back to zero each time, including this last accident that happened a couple of days ago.

There's no talking or writing that will help me. It's not a question of understanding your addiction. You'll never understand it enough to quit effortlessly.
How old are you Travis? Just be interesting to put some of the things you've said into the context of your situation regarding your age.
For example; I'm talking about excercise to you, but i'm 18... And maybe if you're like 60, its totally irrelevant (although you should still regularly walk)
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 2:07pm   #109
 
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travis started this thread Well, 18?! Congratulations. Very mature and wise for an 18 year old. I am more or less in my 30s. I wouldn't want to... to give too many details about myself. (I've already been saying even too much).
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 5:11pm   #110
Joined Jun 2009
Smile As good as it gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenbobtrader View Post
"I like swimming. One day I'd like to go live by the sea"

which F..ckin day ?
"Trading Biography
I have the narcissistic personality disorder (and obsessive-compulsive: I get addicted to any activity such as writing on forums, playing a game, talking to a given person, watching movies, working, etc.): perfectionist, intolerant, big ego, "control freak". I don't get along with bosses, co-workers, roommates, groups (unless I choose what to do). I don't get along with the markets, and I tried in vain to "control" them, too, for 12 years."




no not at all .............

woz just trying to give you a little boost Travis :-)

put them programes of yours to work and make it happen


all the best

Andy
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Last edited by tenbobtrader; Sep 27, 2009 at 5:15pm. Reason: ps: its not a bad film, check it out Travis
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 5:46pm   #111
 
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travis started this thread Oh, ok - I thought so. Well, if it ever happens, I'll keep you updated. I will make a donation to the forum, too. They could name a button in my honour, if I donate a million or so (like they do on universities).

I think I know what my problem is: after a life of failures, the idea of a big success makes me shake, and act irrationally. Instead of being patient and letting it happen, I go all over the place with anxiety and I end up doing something that prevents success from happening. It's as if I was dirt poor and I won the lottery. Not everyone might be able to enjoy what he wins and not let it get to his head, and ruin it. I still maintain that it's not an issue of self-sabotage. I don't fight success. It just makes me so excited that I jump all over the place and end up doing something that prevents it - like not staying calm.
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Old Sep 27, 2009, 6:19pm   #112
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
Well, 18?! Congratulations. Very mature and wise for an 18 year old. I am more or less in my 30s. I wouldn't want to... to give too many details about myself. (I've already been saying even too much).
You live in America and everyone (majority) is from UK here so its really nothing to worry about mate.
Thanks

In that case, you should definately be working out and getting really buff if you aren't already
x
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