Automated trading versus discretionary trading

[RPEX]

Crash prevention measures is what I was referring to .Why not have rise prevention measures?.There is so much crooked business going on with an agenda to rob people's pensions,and Wall street is inherently corrupt and tries to manipulate Governments to keep the thieves in power and markets manipulated , if it wasn't for the people's tarp charity these wall street crooks would be doing bear shoit bull shoit in toilets on wall street.Markets would have collapsed , and the crap would be smellin their own crap six feet under ,manipulating themselves out of their own feaceses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/11/lehman-bankruptcy-report_n_495668.html

Even Cramer knows more than the amateurs about manipulation.

http://www.stock-market-investors.c...k/stock-market-crash-prevention-measures.html

Let us get city and wall street retards to manipulate currency markets,we can kick the sheet heads up their back side


How do u spell feeces ?

The word is FAECES mate, that's what it is.

I am not a Wall Street type, but i once responded to the 'economist' moniker. I don't think there is a single 'honest' business in the world. What somehow seems corrup to you is actually just people doing the best they can within the constraints they face, we all do it, we all optimise. These wall street types will always do the best they can, if they don't they will get the sack. Just like big business will do, just like small businesses will do. If you're not optimising then you're a retard basically. If it is actually within the means (constraints) of these wall streeters to pull the strings of government, and there is no legislation specifically against it, then they will do so,...just like businesses, just like you and me if you could. You would be better off to understand this principle and trade accordingly.

"Let us get city and wall street retards to manipulate currency markets,we can kick the sheet heads up their back side"
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this to you, but FX is basically run by about 10 major banks, onces big enough to make markets in the spot. Even if wholesale money was all 'corrupt' and retail money was all 'correct' (there is no 'correct' btw) it would not be able to overwhelm the instituional money, by sheer weight of numbers. If you don't understand that, mayube check the final equation of the noise trader model, and it is clear that if the smart money is a minority part of the market it is pretty useless to be smart.

Finally on the TARP, i don't really know much about the US stimulus (stimuli?) packages, i understand there's some especial contempt since the gov is not so willing to support the car industry etc. In the UK we had a load of bank rescue packages, and sure it's crap that they have to do it - but they've basically got us by the balls - because they HAVE to provide the bailout. However much you think this is going to cost you personally, it would have cost you much more if you found you couldn't withdraw cash from your bank - your brokerage account you had with your glorious FX trades is basically not good for anything cos your broker had gone bust, and you start looking to the gov to exercise deposit insurance blah blah blah, the cost of all that would have been bigger than anyone could imagine. Just like right now, in retrospect, it would have been cheaper to buy up all outstanding toxic assets/CDOs/Sub-prime dirt back in the summer of 2007 for a silly amount (a couple hundred billion at most) rather than wipe off a trillion or so off of the value of global output.

savoir por pouvoir, telle fut ma pensée

 

[meanreversion]

That's a good post RPEX but I'm not sure I share your belief about the FX market being the plaything of 10 large banks. It's certainly open to abuse in that a main source of income is 'jamming' stops, but I've seen traders lose 100s of k trying to jam stops and failing as well.

What's the French bit mean?

 

[RPEX]

That's a good post RPEX but I'm not sure I share your belief about the FX market being the plaything of 10 large banks. It's certainly open to abuse in that a main source of income is 'jamming' stops, but I've seen traders lose 100s of k trying to jam stops and failing as well.

What's the French bit mean?

Yeah maybe 10 was an exaggeration, but my point is that if a group of people wanted to "manipulate the FX market" in the sense that ODT understands the term, then it would be possible if those groups of people accounted for a large part of the order flow, and i figure there are only a small number of banks with large enough books to take on a position and hold it for a long time. Basically the bigger book wins by my reckoning.

The French quote is something that just came into my head, i think the quote is cut short if you translate it, but the full thing is like "to know in order to create, that was my idea" which is from Gustave Courbet's Realist Manifesto of 1848 (the summer of revolutions). In a nutshell i think Courbet's realism at the time was about projecting the toils of proletarian labourers (mainly agrarian) on the grand scale of the academic style of painting. Like, at the time France was undergoing rapid urbanisation with rural workers migrating to the cities, and industry taking root in the city. The established schools of painting had followed the money (the patrons), the owners of the new capital who pined for a "long lost rural utopia" (which was just a nostalgic illusion) - so these guys painted idyllic visions of the countryside, and where workers were shown - they were shown as people inherently tied to the soil (and thus happy to be the lowest of the low and serve).

Anyhows, so Courbet's realism basically took this subject, blew it up so that the paintings were monumental in scale (like those of mythology or scenes from the Bible). But more importantly he showed the workers sdoing hard labour, and being pretty miserable. He was not only debunking the myth the establishment had been so keen to buy into (uncontested), but he also inverted the class structure of the viewing audience (i don't think i put that right) - but basically the poor Parisian urban-proletarian could look at the painting and understand its subject, whereas before they couldn't really relate to a subject, or it was considered to morally "better" them. Needless to say Courbet didn't take off with the establishment, he got booted out of the Salon, and had to set up shop outside. Courbet was an ego, he fancied himself as a revolutionary, pushed himself as a worker, and so with respect to his subject matter he claimed it was all he knew - so he only paints about what he sees and does (sift grain/break rocks etc.). So yes, i have kind of misused the quote by saying
"that's how i see it, that's what it is"

 

[oildaytrader]

Yeah maybe 10 was an exaggeration, but my point is that if a group of people wanted to "manipulate the FX market" in the sense that ODT understands the term, then it would be possible if those groups of people accounted for a large part of the order flow, and i figure there are only a small number of banks with large enough books to take on a position and hold it for a long time. Basically the bigger book wins by my reckoning.

I very much doubt if any bank could manipulate the FX market, if Governments can't , how can the banks?Sorros vs bank of England , Bank of England lost.Recently Swiss central bank tried to control the appreciating swissy without success.

 

[N Rothschild]

so a hedge fund could manipulate the fx market and beat the bank of england? but banks cant do it?

another world class "shoot yourself in the foot" post from you

 

[meanreversion]

That's v funny. Please let me know next time you two are going at it on a thread, it brightens up my day.

As for RPEX - you must be a swing/trend trader to have the time to read up on philosophy! Interesting post..

 

[RPEX]

I very much doubt if any bank could manipulate the FX market, if Governments can't , how can the banks?Sorros vs bank of England , Bank of England lost.Recently Swiss central bank tried to control the appreciating swissy without success.

I think you have to think about this in different terms, it's not just the case that if a government wants to intervene then it must fail. It's crucial you understand the policy environment. Governments and central banks don't manipulate the market to rip you off of your poxy pips, nor is it either a really significant policy variable anymore. The 'beggar thy neighbour' devaluations are a thing of the 60s, and its not as simple as 'weak exchange rate = cheap exports= more specie' Hume realised this, the exchange rate transmission mech is very complicated and is idiosyncratic for different countries. The major factor is the importing nation's aggregate income, in extremely general terms.

You've had the Art History lesson, now let me give you some economics my friend.

Back to policy environment: the Soros vs. BoE deval, the fx trader's wet dream, was not because Soros didn't like the pound, it has much mroe to do with the high parity DM2.95 that the pound was pegged to the DM - the central currency in the ERM system. Ignoring the gov intervention, remember during the summer of 1992 Germany was overheating, the UK was still knackered coming out of a long recession (a simple interest rate play for you).

More importantly, policy credibility - do they have the balls to do whatever it takes to maintain the rate there - is key. This could be "who has the deepest pockets" - Hong Kong Monetary Authority during the Asian financial crisis did a pretty good job. Or it could be about policy co-ordination. I would have thought someone like you would have known that the government (or owl-worshipping lizards or whatever you call them) can basically do what it wants, which is why you pay tax like their dog. If it takes the policy so seriously that it is prepared to affect changes in the money supply there is very little you can do. I would like you to trade the renimbi, and see how many pips you get on that. "But that is pegged +/-some band" i hear you cry, how do you think they achieve this? They do not just memo Western Union.

Bank of England clearly didn't believe the policy, neither did Bank of Italy at the same time.
HKMA bought assets along side. Pretty successful i thought.
SNB's policy will work if the market thinks it makes sense.

 

[oildaytrader]

so a hedge fund could manipulate the fx market and beat the bank of england? but banks cant do it?

another world class "shoot yourself in the foot" post from you

14 year old let loose , change your handle to Rockerfeller, Rothschild is tarnished image.

There were plenty of other shorts on sterling from big currency players , Sorros was just one of the punters.Once in a while a gambler gets it right, does it give him the power to manipulate everyday?No.

Can he manipulate it on a daily basis? tard

 

[N Rothschild]

just so you know, soros wasnt even behind the breaking of the bank of england. it was stan druckenmiller.

and it was you who just said soros vs boe and boe lost..

you should be a politician..

 

[meanreversion]

Good post RPEX. In addition, it's essential to differentiate between the two distinct and very different types of intervention, one where you are trying to SUPPORT your currency (as the BOE failed to do) and one where you are trying to WEAKEN your currency (every mercantilist country in Asia).

The Asian countries (Thailand in particular) failed to support their currencies in 1998. Now it's the other way round, they are struggling to weaken their currencies. But let's be honest here.. in a fiat system, one is easy and the other is not. It's like suggesting deflation is a big a menace as inflation. Oh no it's not. Deflation can be cured by printing money and is short lived (Japan have unique issues). Inflation is the killer. Inflation in Germany in the 20's is what led to a collapse of social order, and the rise of national socialism, and is the reason they are so hawkish even to this day.

Back to the point, Asian countries will simply continue to accumulate $ and keep their local currencies down, nothing will change this, as long as they wish to pursue the same export driven trade model.

 

[meanreversion]

Why does everyone always bang on about how much Soros took from the BoE when a) it wasn't a realized loss for them anyway, they kept the £ they bought and b) it is nowhere near as big a crime as Gordon Brown giving our gold away.

 

[N Rothschild]

Good post RPEX. In addition, it's essential to differentiate between the two distinct and very different types of intervention, one where you are trying to SUPPORT your currency (as the BOE failed to do) and one where you are trying to WEAKEN your currency (every mercantilist country in Asia).

The Asian countries (Thailand in particular) failed to support their currencies in 1998. Now it's the other way round, they are struggling to weaken their currencies. But let's be honest here.. in a fiat system, one is easy and the other is not. It's like suggesting deflation is a big a menace as inflation. Oh no it's not. Deflation can be cured by printing money and is short lived (Japan have unique issues). Inflation is the killer. Inflation in Germany in the 20's is what led to a collapse of social order, and the rise of national socialism, and is the reason they are so hawkish even to this day.

Back to the point, Asian countries will simply continue to accumulate $ and keep their local currencies down, nothing will change this, as long as they wish to pursue the same export driven trade model.

china now running trade deficits will start to change things.

 

[meanreversion]

I have to say, I don't believe a single statistic I read out of China.

Does this mean Germany is the only net exporter of produced goods in the world? Amazing ..

 

[N Rothschild]

neither do i, but thats the part line lol

 

[N Rothschild]

anyway lets get this thread back on track, slagging off odt'

 

[meanreversion]

You two are actually VERY close friends, aren't you?

 

[N Rothschild]

i dont keep friends with people who are probably 16, use ****ty automated systems than return 9% a year, have no clue about economics and have probably never placed a live trade in there life

 

[oildaytrader]

anyway lets get this thread back on track, slagging off odt'

Other disadvantages

1)Hallicunating trade set ups
2)dreaming where price should end up
3)lack of concentration, too busy posting on internet sites
4)gambling instead of trading
5)emotionally disturbed by losses , can't take pain.
6)Watching porn whilst trading
7)Thinking more of whats for lunch dinner , than on trading set ups.
8)Buying low and cheap when markets are heading lower , selling when markets are heading higher.Computer does less of it , except Rockerfeller does more of it.Its called fundamental trading.

 

[oildaytrader]

The old fart makes mistakes which computers don't.In one of his posts , his usual mistake was pressing buy button instead of sell button.

The old fart is like a 14 year boy and is so full shoiite , he won't respond anymore to the thread.The 14 year old sits with his hand in his pocket thinking of older women,instead of trading .The old fart claims to be a trader ,when he is a two bit mentor fighting for his pitch, like a prostitute fghting for the pitch on the street.

The old fart goes under the name of Rockerfeller to impress new traders.

 

[N Rothschild]

im an old fart, but im 14? **** me another outstanding "shoot ur self in the foot post" we have come to known and love from you.

the problem with these accusations is, many people on this forum know me in person. so your just making a tit of yourself. who are you though? who the **** knows you? no one. your a stupid **** who makes the WORST automated systems that return 90% over 7 years (on pre 2008 data ofcourse) see :http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...-learning-profitable-automated-trading-6.html

Every post you make proves what a reject of society you are, you cant help but contradict yourself often in the same sentence. you have 0 clue of economic as proved by all your posts bout governments and goldman sachs, you have posted 0 trading calls on this site, you have posted 0 proof you have ever TAKEN A LIVE TRADE.

You accused me of trading pocket money and in the same post said your trading $1 a pip..

you accused me of taking "dumb" weekend trades. then said you were holding over the weekend.

there is no end to your retardedness, the fact you have had bans a few times from this forum shows no one ****ing wants you here with your lame attempt to make systems that you can get for free anywhere on the web and no doubt do a better job than the ones you have made.

"he old fart claims to be a trader ,when he is a two bit mentor fighting for his pitch" this is comical, maybe i should get some people to post on this thread who have SEEN me trading in person and know how big my account is?

i posted screen shots of a crude trade i was in, then you claimed i said i never trade crude? this is just the typical moronic drivel that comes out your mouth as i have never once uttered such words.

As for pressing the buy button instead of the sell button, EVERY real trader has done this in there life. FACT. the fact you arnt aware of this is, well, you have never even used a trading platform before have you? (except the meta trader demo account).

"The old fart goes under the name of Rockerfeller to impress new traders". <- can you not actually read? where does it say Rockefeller?

you are, without doubt, a complete spastic.