Career in trading.

Good afternoon everyone

I hope all is trading well and taking nice profit out of the market!

Is there anyone able to give me a little guidance? I'm stuck!

I'll keep it as brief as possible...

I left work Jan 04 to give trading a go. I had prepared as well as thought (read books on TA, Trading Psychology, case studies, seminars etc.) and paper traded for 18 months until it got to the stage when you think I have to give this a go to see if I can't make a living at it. You never know until you try!

October 04 I closed my account after losing half of it. I have absolutely no hard feelings. I loved ever minute of it and most importantly learnt a lot about myself, my personality and discipline. As soon as I have the funds again I will open another account and begin again. This time using the lessons I've learnt, seek guidance and support and do it properly.

October 04 I sat down and passed the Securities Institute Exams - Financial Regulation and Derivatives, I passed them in January 05. I have worked in finance for over eight years, starting on LIFFE. As they closed the floor I moved to a software provider working in fixed income and derivatives, then to trading on my own account.

I've had a couple of decent interviews; almost got on the IPE floor until they decided to close it as of April 7th.....nice...cheers IPE!

I'm dying to get into a brokerage/trading role. I'm prepared to start in a desk assistant role to get my feet in the door, prove myself, sell myself, use my skills I've learnt and learn from the professionals around me.

I have written letters, been to agencies etc.

Can anyone lend me some advice on what to do next?


Kind Regards
Dave

Dave

You might consider an arcade, self-financed or their money. There are plenty of posts on the subject in the trading for a living section

GL
rog1111

Thanks GL. Tonnes of useful reading in that section. Tonnes of useful reading all over this website!

I am aware of the arcades and what they offer. I'm going to try and set up a meeting with someone who works for one of them and have a chat, see what he says.
I have mixed feelings about the arcades and there generally seems to be mixed feelings about them on this website. I saved long and hard to open my trading account, so I know I can do it, I find the splitting of profits a hard pill to to swallow for some reason.

If I had a choice, right now, I'd like to get into brokerage first. It's the reason I took the SI exams and it's something I fancy doing and I know I'd be good at it! Generating business and dealing with clients etc etc. That's where I'm stronger at this moment in time. In the meantime I could continue learning the art of trading while I replenish my funds.

Dave

What types of problems were you having trading your own account? Never picked winning trades? Greedy? Emotional? Risk/reward not in your favor? Not enough cash to trade expensive accounts? Fired all of your bullets at once? What exactly were the problems? With all the research you had done and paper trading for that long- What happened that it failed? Give us more details. Work for yourself- so much more rewarding.

Hello z3Davis

Emotional, totally.

I started off quite well, first couple of months I didn't trade much but got a few winners and covered commissions etc. I was happy with that. Then I had a small loss and traded too aggresively after that as I wanted to make the loss back and start making profit over the commissions. (Classic mistake, I'd read about this over and over again but still fell into the trap). So I started paper trading again.

I then went back into the market with the help of more indicators (DMI, RSI, MA 10 & 50, MACD, using 15, 5, 3 min periods) I felt I almost became paralysed and could decide when to get in or out. Steady losses and more confidence gone. Back to paper.

**It's probably at this point I should have closed the account and re-evalutated. But you don't want the dream to end and failure raises it's ugly head. I was now thinking that if I continue I am not going to be able to fund myself to pass my exams**

I traded after that for a month after that with a RSI, MA50 and support/Resistance and my first use of parabolics. This was the best plan, using parabolics allowed me to get in and out without emotion. I started again to make commissions and losses were reduced drastically. Unfortunately too little too late. I closed the account and sat the exams.

I manage to last almost 9 months until I had to stop trading, I'd lost half of my account, (granted it was broken up with paper trading, probably only did about 4-5 months live trading). I started with 10k account and 7k to survive, (managed to pick up other jobs to stretch the 7k.)

I am proof that paper trading and live trading are completely different. I read this time and time again but failed to believe it until it is done.

I was too quick to drop my original plan in the chase of profits. My early lack of discipline allowed me to be a little greedy, impatient and I shouldn't have left my job, kept a secure wage and traded part-time.

But, towards the end of it I did feel I was in more control of my trading.....'This is were I'm in, this is were I'm out, trailing stop...' No ifs, maybes, oohs, erms, it might, shall I's.....

I did have the chance to put the 10k into an arcade and they would add 15k to it and we'd share the profits, I thought if anyone if going to lose my money, it will be me with my plan. I may well have got the support that would have stop me falling into these traps...who knows...but I need to get back to work now and get my 10k again.

My failure has only fueled me to succeed at trading. Frankly there is nothing I can find that challenges me more. All the preparations/study/paper trading goes out the window when you first make that live trade and your emotions kick-in. I'll not make the same mistake again.

You said it all better than I could have. An arcade may be helpful for you because you would have the ability to be around traders all day who are all doing the same things. I do not remember seeing what you traded (forex/stocks/futures) - this may have been the problem all in itself. Too many indicators can also start to confuse you- they are all somehat similar - so you have to pick the ones you feel most comfortable with for positive results. This is a big advantage in using something like TradeStation with its back-testing ability. It has the ability to draw charts up to 20 years ago with all the indicators you want - you can really determine which ones gave the best signals for each move. PM me if you want to discuss this more in detail. Also I really believe dicipline is the number 1 rule in trading- Have a plan and STICK TO IT. Make yourself a poster and put it on the wall where you trade with some sayings on it. "Don't chase a loser. MOve on to the next one. I need small losses to become a better winner. I am the greatest trader ever" Whatever helps you remember what you are doing. Remember it never hurts to take profits on any positive move also, know exactly how much you are risking(because of where you put your stop loss) before you even get into a trade. That way there will not be any surprises and worst case scenario you already knew. You do not watch the price drip down to the point you are down 50% and wondering if you should buy more to get it back or take a big loss and move on. Taking big losses sucks. I was in your exact place a few years back and I tried to chase 20.00 dollars all the time. I would be down a quick 20 on a stock and rather than cut my losses and move on or come back when a better opportunity sets up- I waited- now down 30 and wishing I could sell for 20 loss. There is no way I am taking a 30 dollar hit. 2 Hours later I would give anything to take a 90.00 loss because I am down over a hundred and tanking fast. I bought more and now my losses started to increase even more rapidly. I got emotional and I got caught chasing 1 -20.00 dollar bill. We have all been there. The fact you recognize it as the main problem you had- you can easily overcome this. This is what makes great traders. Every person in the world who is great at something had some very disappointing times at some point in life. I have confidence you will be a really great trader. Do not give up because of a small setback. Reload and come back again. send me your email through a PM and I could send you a few online sessions I have in my system. Never hurts to see more education.

Dave, read this article about a trader who quited his bank work and devoted his time for trading. It may be inspiring to you
http://www.gaincapital.com/files/traders-04-12-01.pdf

Z3Davis - thanks very much for the words of wisdom and support. I'll e-mail you now. I can't get enough of of the education. I always manage to take something from new tutorials. I'm re-reading the John J Murphys' TA of Financial Markets again - might have missed something there!!!

Thanks again
Dave

Very inspiring Bob and an excellent read. I'll keep that link for future reading.

Thanks
Dave

DavieG, That's a very good honest account. Looks like insufficient capitalisation was the issue rather than anything else. Good luck.

I am my own worse critic Tuffty! One of the big lessons I learnt was you have to be honest with yourself. Can't kid the markets for sure!

I'm encouraged by everyones comments.