Career In Trading

[RUDEBOY]

I've got to agree with Rog. That is one terrible web site. I wouldn't buy marigolds off a website like that.

 

[techst]

Wasn't that the second last post? When i meet experience professionals in any field they certainly don't have the kind of attitute that he's displaying.

 

[KIDDA DREAD]

Any advice on my last post?!?!?

 

[RUDEBOY]

Stocky, looking at your website, i can't believe you were ever a professional. You seem more like a third rate hooker going by your seedy looking web site. You need to get to grips with marketing skills matey. No wonder you only trade on and off. Who would buy into that web site?

 

[DT]

wow - it seems I have touched a nerve

stock junkie - I am quite simply pointing out that you obviously have alternative motives for your postings on this site (namely pimping your website and selling your “insider knowledge”) – you now appear to have chucked all the toys out of the pram at the slightest bit of criticism – but like I said I do not wish to get into some sort of internet bun fight over this so I'll leave you to ponder over this image:

 

[RUDEBOY]

HaHaHa. Sorry folks, that tickled my sick sense of humour. Nice one, DT.

 

[RUDEBOY]

Right, that's it, i'm off out. Beer time, see y'all later. BYE.

 

[Directional]

how comes the requirements and expectations seem so different at IB's and proprietary firms?

Investment banks want quants who can take a statistical and/or long term view on the curve, or whatever else they want to take under consideration. Prop/arcade is short term, consistent profit from short term trading which is largely about being able to quickly identify price based opportunities.

Two totally diametrically different approaches to the market, and hence totally different job descriptions & education requirement.

 

[sandpiper]

I am currently interviewing for trading positions within investment banks and have only recently been looking into proprietary trading firms. I'm confused. Do IB's use the same techniques? It's just IB's seem to only want candidates with good financial degrees and strong maths skills. Proprietary trading firms seem to just want people who can conduct mental arithmetic quickly and know technical analysis etc. Ive done a financial degree and in academia technical analysis is only ever really mentioned within efficient market hypothesis, no emphasis is placed on knowing it, and IB's do not expect you to have practised on virtual accounts etc. How do I go about practising trading online? are there online sims? I know I've rambled a bit but my point was, how comes the requirements and expectations seem so different at IB's and proprietary firms? Also, can anyone tell me a little more bout proprietary trading jobs please? Thanks for all your help.

kd,

Within IB's the types of "trading" positions available are hugely diverse. From Corperate Finance, Treasury, Prop Desk, Sales Trading, Execution.... Buy or Sell side.... not to mention differences due to the nature of the different products.

By and large IBs are not remotely interested (at the grad level) in whether you could/can make money or not. If they want people to make them money or give them a presence in a particular area they generally filch successfull people/teams from elsewhere. IBs are generally more interested in whether you fit the IB employee 'mould', hence their preference for interviewing techniques such as phycometric testing, etc. In fact, a number of IB's don't even recruit grad traders, preferring instead to put people on a program for a couple of years where they rotate between front, back, middle office and IT, eventually ending up in the area they are most suited to.

In contrast, prop shops do care about whether you can/could make money and perhaps more importantly, whether they can make money out of you. They haven't got two years to p*** around whilst you find your feet discover what you are most suited to.

For an IB job, practice with virtual accounts, etc. is irrelevant since the type of trading you would be doing would be worlds apart from the retail stuff you may be practising. Probably more relevant for a prop shop though.

 

[KIDDA DREAD]

thanks a lot, that answers my ramble perfectly! Is there anyway I can familiarise myself with prop style trading like online sims? I have a strong academic knowledge of financial markets but im completely ignorant regarding short term behaviour.

 

[GGG]

thanks a lot, that answers my ramble perfectly! Is there anyway I can familiarise myself with prop style trading like online sims? I have a strong academic knowledge of financial markets but im completely ignorant regarding short term behaviour.

short term behaviour is like this: you have two kinds of participants, the long term traders and the short term traders. the short term people are usually waiting until the long term people act and provide an "opportunity" all the short term traders scramble to get the fill, leaving many of the out of the game, or on the wrong side. now it's waiting for another long term participant to provide an opportunity to get out. if he appears, most short term traders get out and are happy. if he doesn't appear, or worse, acts on the wrong side, the short term traders scramble to get out. now make this a few degrees more complex and you have your micro-market-cosmos.

www.buttontrader.com has some simulations.

 

[KIDDA DREAD]

that explains it well, really helpful, thanks a lot GGG.

 

[Parky]

I really don't give damn about anything else unless the deal is :

1) trading the firm's capital ONLY , none of this shared capital BS.

2) trader gets a reasonable cut of profits and a smal wage

3) NO minimum amount of daily / weekly trades ! I don't churn for refco to make comms . BS to that !

What do you have to say to that ? and who the hell are these " other " firms ? name them if you are serious and not a %#@&%% tease .

Thread after thread you seem to get very hot under the collar when anyone tries to give people trading rooms as an option.

As Arb has said Most trading rooms and prop houses offer traders the ability to trade only the house money. Trading rooms that ask for client money must be FSA registered and I share your feelings for the supposed trading rooms that make trainees and graduates pay up front for the training or ask for risk capital. My advise, dont touch them with a barge pole, there are plenty of good training schemes that dont require this and give you the training and trading capital to start you off.

Secondly we are in a competitive market, good traders or traders with experience can get splits of 60/40 and 70/30 fully backed. Dont trust trading rooms that offer 90/10, ask yourself why a good trader, who would justify such a split, would want to be backed at all. Simple on a 90/10 deal he has a get out of jail free card, he knows his trading style will lead to a big hit one day and the trading room by default will be taking big risks. No decent house with a balanced attitude to risk/ reward would offer these types of deals.

Lastly, no reputable trading room would force people to trade? Why would you want backed traders trading for the sake of it and committing you to the associated risks? You should want traders who have a daily P&L Target on both the upside and downside. Make your money and go home whether it is achieved with 10 lots or 10,000 lots, if you hit your stop loss go home and come back tomorrow, dont chase the market. I dont know of any, and I do mean any, trading room that insists on volume. If there are any dont go there, as above there are plenty of good trading rooms that will be happy with you making money regardless of volume.