Skill's weekend teaser

This is a discussion on Skill's weekend teaser within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Spot on Mr Charts. That what i was trying to say, just not so simply put. Shane Originally Posted by ...

View Poll Results: What will happen?
The plane will take off normally 25 40.32%
The plane will remain stationary 32 51.61%
The plane will run out of conveyor belt before it can take off 5 8.06%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Feb 23, 2009, 12:28am   #201
Joined Feb 2008
Spot on Mr Charts. That what i was trying to say, just not so simply put.
Shane


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Charts View Post
Now look guys, I am extremely ignorant about such things and wouldn't presume to think others are wrong when many are clearly far ahead of me in their understanding.
However, the rationale for my answer is as follows - in my own simple (and maybe overly simplistic and therefore distorted) terms:

The question postulated, "The belt has the same dimensions as a runway at an airport*, and is set up to exactly match the speed of the plane's wheels, moving in the opposite direction. What will happen?

I thought it would remain stationary because for it to take off the wheels would have to move faster than the conveyor belt, thus nullifying the premise of the question that the wheels and the conveyor belt were moving at the same speed in opposite directions.
I assume that in the videos the wheels must have been spinning faster than the conveyor belt for the plane to take off. The only time the wheels would have been spinning at the same speed as the belt is when the thrust equalled the small resistance from the friction of the wheel axles.
But hey, what did (do) I know about such things.
Richard
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 12:43am   #202
 
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I answered the same as you Richard! I have accepted that I was wrong but, although it has been explained many times (in detail), I am still slightly baffled

Lets say a plane is travelling accross a normal runway at 50mph, now swap that runway for the conveyor belt runway which moves at the same speed in the opposite direction. The plane will be travelling at 50mph in relation to the runway, but what about the ground next to the runway? Say there is a speed camera (one that uses a radar signal not markings on the runway) on the ground next to the conveyor belt runway, and it captures the planes speed. It will be 0mph right? If the runway matches the speed of the plane. So it goes faster, runway goes faster etc etc until it gets to the speed needed to make air. The air will be travelling through the jets at whatever speed. The second the plane leaves the runway, how fast would it be on the radar? Would it just start to accelerate from 0mph? This is why I asked about the rollers, if it was on rollers instead of conveyor runway would this be the same?

Oh my, I'm confused Please don't snap at me skill, I don't know why I was created with such a simple mind

Sam.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 12:50am   #203
 
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Oh wait, I get it now....
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 12:51am   #204
 
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...oh no, I don't.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 12:59am   #205
 
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Man I missed the WHOLE THING!!! that sucks.
Oh well I had fun with my kids this weekend instead.
Skill, glad to see that you are still with us and have not been banned!
Told you about those steroids and the difference they make.
I must say I was WRONG about this...half way.
I knew the plain would start moving once it's engines were turned on but in my quick reading I missed the part about the really big tread mill.(I was eating at the same time too.)
All I could see in my head was the plain getting sucked under that horrid beast after it starts to move forward and falls off the front. Kinda like me only I always fly off the back and skin my knee.
Then I started to read through and saw the "whole" truth and understood.

I hope I get to join next weeks little brain teaser MUCH earlier.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 1:37am   #206
 
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I get it again now! The plane won't be at 0 mph relative to the ground. The air will will be forced through the engines at such a speed so that the plane will move relative to the atmosphere and the runway could never move fast enough to counteract that. It has no difference if the runway is stationary, moving forwards or backwards at any speed, the plane will still move and take off as normal (unless it is in a vacuum). Woohoo. Now I'm really done with this. I am going to explore how fast my didjerido can move in relation to my girlfriends cha cha. Then I shall sleep like a baby. Goodnight all,

Sam.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 3:08am   #207
 
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Skill Leverage started this thread Isnt it amazing how people can be told the correct answer, told that it's sitting in textbooks and papers written by people far more intelligent than any of us, there's a bloody video of it happening in real life, and yet they STILL choose to believe their own ill-informed opinion....

Trendie you are the man as always; a car on rollers during an MOT is not the same as a plane, because of course a car implements its drive through the contact of its wheels with the ground; therefore, the rollers directly counteract its forward motion, and the car cannot move.

What these people cannot get their heads around is that a plane does not function in this way, thus it's a completely different kettle of fish. The reason I did this is not to prove the answer (I already knew it of course), but to show that people like Bramble simply refuse to accept opinion that's not their own, no matter how compelling the evidence may be; they simply choose to ignore or misunderstand the information as it suits them.

Not a good way to go about anything in life, particularly trading I'm sure.

SL
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 3:22am   #208
 
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Have your sedatives worn off now SL? Good thread again. I'm gonna get it right next week man. You watch me! Its easy, the answer is the one which I think is definately not the answer. Now don't you try any reverse psychology on me you cheeky little swine!

Sam.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 3:56am   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trendie View Post
first things, first.

ice.
wheels frozen (proxy for frictionless surface, or conveyor belt).
flaps down.
control tower gives you the go-ahead.
switch on the turbofans, with full re-heat.

with the wheels NOT MOVING AT ALL, do you get to take off or not?
What is it with this fascination for the contact the plane has (or has not) with what it's standing on?

We are GIVEN: whatever it is standing on will counteract totally any forward motion through means/mechanisms we are not interested in.

As the plane moves forward under power the runway moves under it to precisely the same extent IN THE OPPOSITE direction thus totally cancelling out any forwad movement.

If the teaser is EXACTLY as stated in post #1 then the plane does not move forward from it's starting position even blowing full power. It therefore never moves through the air and also therefore never generates sufficient |(any actually) lift.

Put the plane away. Get rid of the runway. YOU Trendie are standing on a rather long rug. It's actually infinite in length. You are told that every step you take forward will result in someone tugging the rug from under your feet to exactly the same length of each pace as you move forward.

How far are you going to get?

Will it make ANY difference how much effort you put into it or how fast you run?
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 3:58am   #210
 
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Skill Leverage started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBramble View Post
What is it with this fascination for the contact the plane has (or has not) with what it's standing on?

We are GIVEN: whatever it is standing on will counteract totally any forward motion through means/mechanisms we are not interested in.
For the eight hundredth time, at no point has anyone ever said this. This is what you do not understand, and this is why you are wrong.
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