Worldspreads upgraded!

[gle101]

Because i left!

Well yes, ha ha! No really, for some reason or the other they put me on referral to a dealer after you left. I had requested to be put on instant execution again, but my request was not accepted by the new marketing director. This is also why I am not so active on this board any more. Very hard to give my honest opinion about trading at WS when I am not allowed to trade under normal conditions. That is the reason why I have stopped trading with them. Hopefully they will come around so I can go back to trading with them again.

 

[JTrader]

Well yes, ha ha! No really, for some reason or the other they put me on referral to a dealer after you left. I had requested to be put on instant execution again, but my request was not accepted by the new marketing director. This is also why I am not so active on this board any more. Very hard to give my honest opinion about trading at WS when I am not allowed to trade under normal conditions. That is the reason why I have stopped trading with them. Hopefully they will come around so I can go back to trading with them again.

One of the main problems with the spreadbetting industry as a whole is the very notion that a trader must be somehow grateful just for being able to trade and make a living without being the subject of manipulation, when this should not even be an issue really.

 

[MarvinS]

You should see it on the institutional side of things! Some banks won't even spit on you if your on fire if you do not have the balance sheet. Its not a case of being grateful or ungrateful, it is the industry in general. Manipulation is part of every biz! Its just how its done and on what scale...

 

[JTrader]

You should see it on the institutional side of things! Some banks won't even spit on you if your on fire if you do not have the balance sheet[/B]
Its not a case of being grateful or ungrateful, it is the industry in general. Manipulation is part of every biz! Its just how its done and on what scale...

Hi Marvin

I don't understand the point you are trying to make in relation to my comments
.

Are you defending/justifying a SB companies for manipulating a successful clients ability to continue trading with them by implying that the customer shoud expect and tolerate this?

Thanks.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

You should see it on the institutional side of things! Some banks won't even spit on you if your on fire if you do not have the balance sheet. Its not a case of being grateful or ungrateful, it is the industry in general. Manipulation is part of every biz! Its just how its done and on what scale...

Marvin,

How you manage to get these jobs at banks, etc is a mystery to me. You really come across as clueless. Listen, I make my living trading forex so I know what I am talking about. WS are by far the worst outfit out there. Why?

If you are a serious trader, there are three things that you will be interested in:

1- Execution

2- Order functionality and

3- Cost

In that order. Whoever runs WS has it in their heads that cost is what matters and the don't seem to undertand:

1- cost saving from apparent 'tight spreads' can disappear when execution is bad

2- execution and order functionality are more important in most cases unless the cost saving is huge.

Check this out. All USDJPY trades are now being referred. Why? Because that pair has been moving fast recently!! Marvin, stop saying this is how the market works. I don't think there are any brokers who vet trades on a particular pair even when that pair is dead simply because it was moving fast yesterday.

WS is no serious broker. They are a joke and anyone who knows anything about succussful short term trading cannot trade with this clowns.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

Hi Marvin

I don't understand the point you are trying to make in relation to my comments
.

Are you defending/justifying a SB companies for manipulating a successful clients ability to continue trading with them by implying that the customer shoud expect and tolerate this?

Thanks.

Yes, that is what he is saying and it is total bull****. After all, we use SB companies for tax purposes. The trick is to first make the money and it is gonna be hard work if a broker isn't upto scratch. CS offer 2 pips on EURUSD and USDJPY and 3 pips on GBPUSD. I am not a big fan of CS, but I can see someone who trades £10-£20 a pip doing very well with them, especially if the trader uses limit orders rather than market. WS are rubbish and they deserve to stay with the novice traders and the losers, which I suspect is what they want.

 

[Crap Buddist]

You should see it on the institutional side of things! Some banks won't even spit on you if your on fire if you do not have the balance sheet. Its not a case of being grateful or ungrateful, it is the industry in general. Manipulation is part of every biz! Its just how its done and on what scale...

Hi marvin, listen you being in banking, not sure if you have touched on retail banking but its in the news these Bankers ! big bankers they are, they are now increasing 30% again for processing a bounced direct debit, £40.00 .

Now and fair play to them, these bankers, it only costs them tops of £2.50 so they make gross of £37.49. er, now that is some kin, mark up buddy.

what i would like to know is what % of these huge profits , do these money earners reflect in relation to a retail banks collective gross profit. Any Idea's ?

Ta.

 

[JTrader]

CMC SB have a 2-pip EURUSD spread, and they say that a client should not have any problem trading @ £100 per pip, as this is still relatively small in spot forex - due to the size of liquidity etc.

Everyone concentrates on WS value for money due to the 1 pip 0800-1600 spread. Outside these hours EURUSD spread is 3 pips.
If you open a position evey hour from 0700-2100 (14 trades) with CMC this is 28 pips in spread paid.
With WS this is 3 pip * 6 = 18 pips, + 8 * 1 pip = 8 pips = 26 pips total. Therefore the total difference means that you get a slightly better deal at WS.

With GBPUSD at CMC this would cost 14 * 3 pips = 42 pips.
At WS this would cost 3 pips * 6 = 18 pips, + 8 * 2 pips = 16 pips = 34 pips total spread paid.

Therefore you do get a slightly cheaper deal in terms of spread at WS. But we should not forget that WS 1 pip spreads are from 0800-1600 only.

 

[gle101]

One of the main problems with the spreadbetting industry as a whole is the very notion that a trader must be somehow grateful just for being able to trade and make a living without being the subject of manipulation, when this should not even be an issue really.

Yes I agree, however, I think this is about to change. The competition is getting tougher among the SB companies, and they are understanding the need to strengthen their custom relations department in order to hold on to their clients in the near future. They are beginning to realize that they will face an increasing tendency of their customers to shift to another company, if the SB company doesn't live up to basic standards. With all Market Makers there is bound to be some kind of "protection" for their spread and asset, this is part of the game. It is when this 'protection' gets totally out of hand, that creates a problem for the trader. I have not experienced exaggerated 'protection' with WS, I had a choice to stay trading with WS without instant execution, and what came along with that, I decided not to do so, because the odds did not appeal to me.

 

[gle101]

CMC SB have a 2-pip EURUSD spread, and they say that a client should not have any problem trading @ £100 per pip, as this is still relatively small in spot forex - due to the size of liquidity etc.

Everyone concentrates on WS value for money due to the 1 pip 0800-1600 spread. Outside these hours EURUSD spread is 3 pips.
If you open a position evey hour from 0700-2100 (14 trades) with CMC this is 28 pips in spread paid.
With WS this is 3 pip * 6 = 18 pips, + 8 * 1 pip = 8 pips = 26 pips total. Therefore the total difference means that you get a slightly better deal at WS.

With GBPUSD at CMC this would cost 14 * 3 pips = 42 pips.
At WS this would cost 3 pips * 6 = 18 pips, + 8 * 2 pips = 16 pips = 34 pips total spread paid.

Therefore you do get a slightly cheaper deal in terms of spread at WS. But we should not forget that WS 1 pip spreads are from 0800-1600 only.

Good points, good overview.

 

[JTrader]

WS said that size of trade should not influence speed of execution, and whether £1 per pip or £100 per pip (maximum online bet) execution should be the same. I wonder if this is the reality?

 

[gle101]

If you are a serious trader, there are three things that you will be interested in:

1- Execution

2- Order functionality and

3- Cost

In that order. Whoever runs WS has it in their heads that cost is what matters and the don't seem to undertand:

1- cost saving from apparent 'tight spreads' can disappear when execution is bad

2- execution and order functionality are more important in most cases unless the cost saving is huge.

Check this out. All USDJPY trades are now being referred. Why? Because that pair has been moving fast recently!! Marvin, stop saying this is how the market works. I don't think there are any brokers who vet trades on a particular pair even when that pair is dead simply because it was moving fast yesterday.

You are right, one must look at the complete picture.

Market Makers do make adjustments, CS did on FTSE, they introduced 1 point spread but went back to 2 point spread for a couple of hours, the other day due to a volatile market.

 

[gle101]

WS said that size of trade should not influence speed of execution, and whether £1 per pip or £100 per pip (maximum online bet) execution should be the same. I wonder if this is the reality?

Well yes, why don't you have a go at it to find out, ha ha! No really, I think it all depends when the bet is being made, e.g. during news releases, volatile market and so on.

 

[MarvinS]

Hi marvin, listen you being in banking, not sure if you have touched on retail banking but its in the news these Bankers ! big bankers they are, they are now increasing 30% again for processing a bounced direct debit, £40.00 .

Now and fair play to them, these bankers, it only costs them tops of £2.50 so they make gross of £37.49. er, now that is some kin, mark up buddy.

what i would like to know is what % of these huge profits , do these money earners reflect in relation to a retail banks collective gross profit. Any Idea's ?

Ta.

Sorry I am at the other side of banking, my bank is an investment bank. I would presume retail banks in the UK skim alot off the top. In fact in HK its free to transfer money same day, but the UK banking system is so so so archaic.

Banks make their money from the flow of funds, i presume it makes up a massive amount of their profits....

 

[MarvinS]

Yes, that is what he is saying and it is total bull****. After all, we use SB companies for tax purposes. The trick is to first make the money and it is gonna be hard work if a broker isn't upto scratch. CS offer 2 pips on EURUSD and USDJPY and 3 pips on GBPUSD. I am not a big fan of CS, but I can see someone who trades £10-£20 a pip doing very well with them, especially if the trader uses limit orders rather than market. WS are rubbish and they deserve to stay with the novice traders and the losers, which I suspect is what they want.

Mate, CS/IG/CMC/WS/FINS - they are all spread betting companies and they don't hedge your business! They rely on 2 way business and people that eventually churn themselves to death or novices. Do you really think a pro would trade with a SB firm?
My point being whats the difference between CS or WS they both want you to loose eventually, and thats coming from the inside...

 

[FXSCALPER2]

Mate, CS/IG/CMC/WS/FINS - they are all spread betting companies and they don't hedge your business! They rely on 2 way business and people that eventually churn themselves to death or novices. Do you really think a pro would trade with a SB firm?
My point being whats the difference between CS or WS they both want you to loose eventually, and thats coming from the inside...

Now we agree, Marvin. What you just posted it really what I have been saying for ages. What I find really funny about WS is the fact that they refer bets on an instrument because it moved fast yestarday. I know SB have all sorts of faults, but that is just ridiculous.

 

[gle101]

Now we agree, Marvin. What you just posted it really what I have been saying for ages. What I find really funny about WS is the fact that they refer bets on an instrument because it moved fast yestarday. I know SB have all sorts of faults, but that is just ridiculous.

Well it is quite clear that the more the clients lose the more profit the SB company makes. This is hardly the issue here. The real issue is what means the SB company uses in order to reach their profit goals, and if these profit targets are realistic in combination with good service in order to keep the client base happy.

 

[klw]

Mate, CS/IG/CMC/WS/FINS - they are all spread betting companies and they don't hedge your business! They rely on 2 way business and people that eventually churn themselves to death or novices. Do you really think a pro would trade with a SB firm?
My point being whats the difference between CS or WS they both want you to loose eventually, and thats coming from the inside...

Marvin I have no particular axe to grind with you but the above post is just jaw dropping rubbish.Simon from Capital Spreads has admitted on the other thread that they hedge.If I remember rightly 1 month the book failed to make a profit for them and the hedge ensured thier business made a profit overall and I can't believe that some of the others don't hedge either after all there is free money on offer by following the big hitters,this is a form of hedge.

As regards professionals or these big hitters spread betting I personally know of 1 that does and I would bet my house business and all my worldly goods that there are others that do. Why do you limit bets to £100 a point ? If they lost it would be good business for you it's because the pros. make easy money off you and your book isen't big enough to handle it.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

Well it is quite clear that the more the clients lose the more profit the SB company makes. This is hardly the issue here. The real issue is what means the SB company uses in order to reach their profit goals, and if these profit targets are realistic in combination with good service in order to keep the client base happy.

I never bother about how they make their money, frankly. What matters to me is that they provide a reliable, mutil function order platform with good execution. I have no idea what you are saying, buddy.

 

[MarvinS]

Marvin I have no particular axe to grind with you but the above post is just jaw dropping rubbish.Simon from Capital Spreads has admitted on the other thread that they hedge.If I remember rightly 1 month the book failed to make a profit for them and the hedge ensured thier business made a profit overall and I can't believe that some of the others don't hedge either after all there is free money on offer by following the big hitters,this is a form of hedge.

As regards professionals or these big hitters spread betting I personally know of 1 that does and I would bet my house business and all my worldly goods that there are others that do. Why do you limit bets to £100 a point ? If they lost it would be good business for you it's because the pros. make easy money off you and your book isen't big enough to handle it.

Yeah and i believe him too! What would you call a big hitter? £100 or 200 a point...
You are absolutely right there are some relatively large sized clients around, to give an example when i was on the options desk at fins we had a client that wanted to write £100k per point of an S&P option span margin of £4m+. So i suppose every so often you do get Whales around but in general spread betting clients are of the smaller scale traders.