Worldspreads upgraded!

[FXSCALPER2]

Thanks, yes this statement was kind of interesting. Did you call them up? The way you have presented the conversation it looks like a chat.

It is a chat. gle, you have got to accept that they cannot offer what they promised and give it a rest. There is no point persuing this. In any case, they are telling you that they do not allow scalpers. That is the end of the story and what I knew, from the word go, would happen. Too obvious, really.

 

[gle101]

It is a chat. gle, you have got to accept that they cannot offer what they promised and give it a rest. There is no point persuing this. In any case, they are telling you that they do not allow scalpers. That is the end of the story and what I knew, from the word go, would happen. Too obvious, really.

It was not my intention to pursue it, as I have come to the same conclusion which I mentioned in my recent post on the update on my trading. I think it would be a good thing for WS to come up front with such limitations, if this is the companies official standpoint. Then we as traders have the option to adjust in good time, or move on elsewhere.

 

[DDI]

thats what I suspected too. as FX scalper says, there is no way WS would allow scalping, but offering 1 pip spreads then thats what makes them attractive for - going in and out for the few pips. If you are playing it a little longer term and are hoping to make 70-80 pips, then WS 1 pip spread doesnt really make a difference. In fact for medium term fx, its best not to trade with WS even if they had no spread (in case of an overnight jump).

If they genuinely want to offer tight spreads without targetting short term traders or scalpers, then they should offer tight dpreads in equities, like Capitalspreads do.

 

[MarvinS]

Cap Spreads offering 1 pip spread on FTSE was only a matter of time!!!

 

[JTrader]

thats what I suspected too. as FX scalper says, there is no way WS would allow scalping, but offering 1 pip spreads then thats what makes them attractive for - going in and out for the few pips. If you are playing it a little longer term and are hoping to make 70-80 pips, then WS 1 pip spread doesnt really make a difference. In fact for medium term fx, its best not to trade with WS even if they had no spread (in case of an overnight jump).

If they genuinely want to offer tight spreads without targetting short term traders or scalpers, then they should offer tight dpreads in equities, like Capitalspreads do.

I agree,

the 1-pip spread is designed to appeal to short term traders. For longer term traders, paying an extra pip or 2 makes little or no difference.
Therefore if WS didn't want to attract short term traders, why bother introducing a 1-pip spread? unless it was always going to be just a gimmick.

 

[wasp]

I agree,

the 1-pip spread is designed to appeal to short term traders. For longer term traders, paying an extra pip or 2 makes little or no difference.
Therefore if WS didn't want to attract short term traders, why bother introducing a 1-pip spread? unless it was always going to be just a gimmick.

To attract punters, oops! sorry, traders, then once they have them, hope despite the antics pulled, they will stay with them anyway.... or am I just being a bit cynical!

 

[JTrader]

To attract punters, oops! sorry, traders, then once they have them, hope despite the antics pulled, they will stay with them anyway.... or am I just being a bit cynical!

WS are still better than the other spreadbetters IMHO.

I believe spreadbetting is still better than DMA, as profits are tax free.

I would not dream of trading DMA, except maybe Twowayfutures spreadbetting, as I don't think I'd be profitable. Paying a comission and tax on any profits is above and beyond my present capabilities.

I wouldn't want to pay a 3-pip spot forex spread eiher, as this woud also significantly reduce any profits.

The point I'm making is that I believe us punters/traders are still getting a bum deal in the trading world.

Think about how much risk we taker on in order to try and make a living.
Brokers, spreadbet companies, spot forex companies should be bending over backwards to make their services as attractive as possible to the punters.
Instead, the OTC companies turn round and say well if your trades last for less than X minutes, or if you make more than x number of trades per day, you'll have all your trades put on dealer referal. This is not good, they are limiting punters chances of being successful - which is the reason we are trading - you can be successful with us, but not if you trade like this, or that. This is not a level playing field.

They know that 90% of trader attemptees fail. Yet their services could still be so much better/fairer and on a level playing field.

Permanent dealer referal = time to take your custom elsewhere in my book, only WS can still probably do this and retain custom as they are better than the rest still.

I'm sure WS would not be doing the 1 pip spreads if it wasn't a profit maker for them. They are a professional business operation, not a charity.

 

[wasp]

WS are still better than the other spreadbetters IMHO.

I believe spreadbetting is still better than DMA, as profits are tax free.

I would not dream of trading DMA, except maybe Twowayfutures spreadbetting, as I don't think I'd be profitable. Paying a comission and tax on any profits is above and beyond my present capabilities.

I wouldn't want to pay a 3-pip spot forex spread eiher, as this woud also significantly reduce any profits.

The point I'm making is that I believe us punters/traders are still getting a bum deal in the trading world.

Think about how much risk we taker on in order to try and make a living.
Brokers, spreadbet companies, spot forex companies should be bending over backwards to make their services as attractive as possible to the punters.
Instead, the OTC companies turn round and say well if your trades last for less than X minutes, or if you make more than x number of trades per day, you'll have all your trades put on dealer referal. This is not good, they are limiting are chances of being successful - which is the reason we are trading - you can be successful with us, but not if you trade like this, or that. This is not a level playing field.

I'm sure WS would not be doing the 1 pip spreads if it wasn't a profit maker for them. They are a professional business operation, not a charity.

Spread betting vs DMA arguments aside....

Why should they bend over at all in this, a dog eat dog world and business. Their bottom line, whatever style of broker they are, is to make a profit and not only can they do that more than adequately with the current scenario, people keep on coming and lining their pockets more so regardless of the disdain held.

Like a good trading strategy, if for them, it ain't broke, why try and fix it?

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

WS are still better than the other spreadbetters IMHO.

I believe spreadbetting is still better than DMA, as profits are tax free.

I would not dream of trading DMA, except maybe Twowayfutures spreadbetting, as I don't think I'd be profitable. Paying a comission and tax on any profits is above and beyond my present capabilities.

I wouldn't want to pay a 3-pip spot forex spread eiher, as this woud also significantly reduce any profits.

The point I'm making is that I believe us punters/traders are still getting a bum deal in the trading world.

Think about how much risk we taker on in order to try and make a living.
Brokers, spreadbet companies, spot forex companies should be bending over backwards to make their services as attractive as possible to the punters.
Instead, the OTC companies turn round and say well if your trades last for less than X minutes, or if you make more than x number of trades per day, you'll have all your trades put on dealer referal. This is not good, they are limiting punters chances of being successful - which is the reason we are trading - you can be successful with us, but not if you trade like this, or that. This is not a level playing field.

I guess it's a gradual process of improvement through competition. I came across some old stockbroker statements the other day and couldn't believe the commissions I was being charged 15 years ago when it was mainly telephone and certificated dealing. There are a few niche spreadbet operators out there: WS and Futuresbetting for example, who seem to bring something different to the party, if they are successful presumably in time the others will be forced to follow - note capital spreads this morning announcing one-pip FTSE spreads.

My only other comment would be that your style of trading must be pretty close to the bone if a three-pip spread and a one-pip spread is the difference between you making money or not !

 

[JTrader]

Spread betting vs DMA arguments aside....

Why should they bend over at all in this, a dog eat dog world and business. Their bottom line, whatever style of broker they are, is to make a profit and not only can they do that more than adequately with the current scenario, people keep on coming and lining their pockets more so regardless of the disdain held.

Like a good trading strategy, if for them, it ain't broke, why try and fix it?

Exactly, punters keep coming along, with blind hopes of making a small fortune, accept the unlevel playing field as it is, with the odds of success heavily stacked against them. Brilliant for the brokers, I bet they can't believe how people just keep coming forward, without really questioning the slope on the playing field. Therefore they are happy to take peoples money, knowing that they could if they wanted to, offer a more cost effective to the punter service - just like 99.98% of businesses in the world.

WS are the best SB co. at present, IMO, in terms of low spreads on a range of markets, and all the others SB's need to play catch-up, However, CMC have narrower spreads than WS on FTSE100 stocks for example, so each SB co. has their strength markets.

 

[ZEPPO]

Crushing logic

Crushing logic that you've got there, Wasp, and of course, I agree entirely.
Look at it the way you want, Spreadbetting companies are nothing more that glorified bookmakers, and when you bet, somebody has to take the other side; only one can win...
WS may be the best in the industry, but they still are bookmakers, and when you trade, you'll do it against them, no matter how much or how well they hedge their position.
And when push comes to shove, they are bigger and heavier; so guess who'll end up rolling on the floor!
As Wasp says, as long as the business model pays, why change it? The Stock, Futures and Forex markets are creatures made to serve those who created them in the first place, and neither you nor me can be counted amongst them, we are prey to them, tools to be conveniently used to maximise profits; and those profits come out of our pockets!
How right you are Wasp, dog eat dog indeed!
I doubt there is much that us, the private trader/punter/investor can do about it; we simply haven't got the muscle - who of us can succesfully take on an institution? No way, we haven't got the capital, for a start; then, there are contacts, the "Old Boy" type of network, to which most of us haven't got access (I don't), and some other advantages the big guys have got that we don't...
I think the best we can do is try to infer the big boys' game and piggy back; really, I can't see it getting much better than that...Oh! Yes, and pray that tax law is not going to change any time soon!
Eduardo. :|

 

[wasp]

Exactly, punters keep coming along, with blind hopes of making a small fortune, accept the unlevel playing field as it is, with the odds of success heavily stacked against them. Brilliant for the brokers, I bet they can't believe how people just keep coming forward, without really questioning the slope on the playing field. Therefore they are happy to take peoples money, knowing that they could if they wanted to, offer a more cost effective to the punter service - just like 99.98% of businesses in the world.

WS are the best SB co. at present, IMO, in terms of low spreads on a range of markets, and all the others SB's need to play catch-up, However, CMC have narrower spreads than WS on FTSE100 stocks for example, so each SB co. has their strength markets.

I don't know which SB is best but from what I have read, WS seem popular (in comparison). That said, my opinion is you will only find a level playing field when you start paying commissions and taxes. Congratulations from me to those who can day trade consistently and profitably using SB's. I may pay more other costs but my spreads are only 1-2 pips 99% of the time, and I KNOW I am trading the markets, not a bookies and I have a 'level playing field'. This isn't an SB vs DMA thread though, so I'll leave it there.

 

[DDI]

On the long term WS's strategy (of attracting clients with 1 pip spreads and instant execution and then put them on dealer referall if they do x number of trades per 5 mins etc...) will prove to their disadvantage as it will cause a lot of ill feeling.

They are better off improving their spreads and service in other markets as general (which to be fair is still attractive). I remember 4-5 years ago finspreads had an unbelievable customer service. So many times the market would touch my stop loss and then rebound and finspreads used to keep me is and not fill me!!Nobody offers that anymore as most systems are automatic....Maybe WS, as a small company, can offer these sort of serivces that will sit well with clients.

 

[MarvinS]

Crushing logic that you've got there, Wasp, and of course, I agree entirely.
Look at it the way you want, Spreadbetting companies are nothing more that glorified bookmakers, and when you bet, somebody has to take the other side; only one can win...
WS may be the best in the industry, but they still are bookmakers, and when you trade, you'll do it against them, no matter how much or how well they hedge their position.
And when push comes to shove, they are bigger and heavier; so guess who'll end up rolling on the floor!
As Wasp says, as long as the business model pays, why change it? The Stock, Futures and Forex markets are creatures made to serve those who created them in the first place, and neither you nor me can be counted amongst them, we are prey to them, tools to be conveniently used to maximise profits; and those profits come out of our pockets!
How right you are Wasp, dog eat dog indeed!
I doubt there is much that us, the private trader/punter/investor can do about it; we simply haven't got the muscle - who of us can succesfully take on an institution? No way, we haven't got the capital, for a start; then, there are contacts, the "Old Boy" type of network, to which most of us haven't got access (I don't), and some other advantages the big guys have got that we don't...
I think the best we can do is try to infer the big boys' game and piggy back; really, I can't see it getting much better than that...Oh! Yes, and pray that tax law is not going to change any time soon!
Eduardo. :|

100% agreed but if a glorified bookmaker as you put it can be accurate enough to wrap a simple spread around a simple market, what is the difference if they loose or win? Spread betting firms would like you to believe that if you win they win! Do direct futures brokers care if you win or loose, no its all about volume!

 

[gle101]

Crushing logic that you've got there, Wasp, and of course, I agree entirely.
Look at it the way you want, Spreadbetting companies are nothing more that glorified bookmakers, and when you bet, somebody has to take the other side; only one can win...
WS may be the best in the industry, but they still are bookmakers, and when you trade, you'll do it against them, no matter how much or how well they hedge their position.
And when push comes to shove, they are bigger and heavier; so guess who'll end up rolling on the floor!
As Wasp says, as long as the business model pays, why change it? The Stock, Futures and Forex markets are creatures made to serve those who created them in the first place, and neither you nor me can be counted amongst them, we are prey to them, tools to be conveniently used to maximise profits; and those profits come out of our pockets!
How right you are Wasp, dog eat dog indeed!
I doubt there is much that us, the private trader/punter/investor can do about it; we simply haven't got the muscle - who of us can succesfully take on an institution? No way, we haven't got the capital, for a start; then, there are contacts, the "Old Boy" type of network, to which most of us haven't got access (I don't), and some other advantages the big guys have got that we don't...
I think the best we can do is try to infer the big boys' game and piggy back; really, I can't see it getting much better than that...Oh! Yes, and pray that tax law is not going to change any time soon!
Eduardo. :|

Well, I think the industry is changing in a big way, and it is changing fast. I see that in the near future, customer relations getting more importance. The Internet will play a more decisive role when it comes to support and marketing . I Also I see a tightening of regulations as SB becomes more of a mainstream activity. The customers will move more between the SB companies, and therefore the value of keeping the client within the company becomes more vital. Also SB will become taxable in the future.

 

[gle101]

100% agreed but if a glorified bookmaker as you put it can be accurate enough to wrap a simple spread around a simple market, what is the difference if they loose or win? Spread betting firms would like you to believe that if you win they win! Do direct futures brokers care if you win or loose, no its all about volume!

Hi Marvin, nice to see you back on this board. I hope everything goes well for you in Hong Kong.

I like to view the loss that a SB company makes on clients bets as a marketing cost. So in fact, the SB company can regard these losses as a win-win situation, of course this is as long as the cost does not override the profit target set up by the company.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

I use an American ECN. Does any body know one based in the UK? Thanks.

 

[MarvinS]

I use an American ECN. Does any body know one based in the UK? Thanks.

I know some in HK in fact i went out for lunch with the CEO today with one! No reasons why you they would turn down non corporate biz...

 

[MarvinS]

Hi Marvin, nice to see you back on this board. I hope everything goes well for you in Hong Kong.

I like to view the loss that a SB company makes on clients bets as a marketing cost. So in fact, the SB company can regard these losses as a win-win situation, of course this is as long as the cost does not override the profit target set up by the company.

Hi Gle, I have been away for awhile but still trading. Some nice moves about to happen soon in currencies! I am thinking GBP races above 2 towards 2.0800, would be nice to see it up there! I see the WS thread is quite busy alot of discussions and that Capital Spreads have decided to join the 1 point spread party. Any improvents to the WS feed?

 

[JTrader]

OK
so we know that WS (and CS) have a problem with scalpers.

What i don't know is why they don't like scalpers, given that scalping is a just as skillful, difficult and respectable type of trading as any other.

Have WS offered an explanation for why they don't like scalpers, and how scalping clients is bad/non-favourable/problematic for them as a business?

Cheers.