why SpreadBet??? its not professional

[Stockjunkie]

Everyone can say what you like and divert the chat to some less related topic , but the bottom line in this game if you are serious is about winning .

It may lead to hurt feelings for some , but deep down we and they will all know that it is about numbers , whether we acknowledge that or try to deny it .

We can talk psychology all we want but it counts for nothing if we are getting lousy returns or losing .

The correct psychology for trading is a means to an end : WINNING ! not vice versa .

 

[SOCRATES]

Dear Socrates,

Please note that I am not endorsing Spreadbetting or encouraging individuals to trade via the method. What I am saying is that there are worse options out there and it is not as bad as it seems. Most of the traders that encounter slippage are daytraders or are trying to execute trades during busy times, for these traders it would be better to have other accounts with DA to compliment their spread betting accounts.

The idea/task is to make money and the more options available to the trader, the better the chances of success.

Dear Lion, I understand and accept your posture with regards to encouragement or endorsement. I agree that there are worse options out there such as illiquid instruments and so on, so by comparison to what is dire, it is not so bad as you say.

Slippage is not just encountered during busy times, in fact the worst times are when the prices are not moving very fast in the actual market but the SB prices do not keep up, and in fact, the worst time is after hours as I have expressed in a previous post.

My view is the other way round. That is, for these traders to have DA accounts in the first place and then to compliment what they do using SB as an aside.

My other view is not to make money, but to give absolute priority to getting it consistently right, and then, and only then, can money be consistently made.

Also, too many options available are apt to engender confusion and indecision. Again my view is that it is better to specialise rather than have a scattergun technique.

I am not saying you should only have one niche.

I am saying it is best to have several niches, with a highly developed edge in each, and that, in my view is the very best strategy.

Kind Regards.

 

[SOCRATES]

Everyone can say what you like and divert the chat to some less related topic , but the bottom line in this game if you are serious is about winning .

It may lead to hurt feelings for some , but deep down we and they will all know that it is about numbers , whether we acknowledge that or try to deny it .

We can talk psychology all we want but it counts for nothing if we are getting lousy returns or losing .

The correct psychology for trading is a means to an end : WINNING ! not vice versa .

Yes, quite. Very well put.

 

[LION63]

Slippage is not just encountered during busy times, in fact the worst times are when the prices are not moving very fast in the actual market but the SB prices do not keep up, and in fact, the worst time is after hours as I have expressed in a previous post.

My view is the other way round. That is, for these traders to have DA accounts in the first place and then to compliment what they do using SB as an aside.

We agree that the different types of accounts do not hamper the individual's progress and provide options.


My other view is not to make money, but to give absolute priority to getting it consistently right, and then, and only then, can money be consistently made.

I could not have put it better as that is the reason for the large number of failures.

Also, too many options available are apt to engender confusion and indecision. Again my view is that it is better to specialise rather than have a scattergun technique.

It is amazing that so many traders tend to swim with the tide and follow the flavour of the month ie. Everyone is now an oil analyst and an expert on hurricanes

I am not saying you should only have one niche.

I am saying it is best to have several niches, with a highly developed edge in each, and that, in my view is the very best strategy.

Spot on.

I am now going to be maligned for agreeing with you.

 

[Mr. Charts]

LION,
Well they can malign me as well because I find myself not merely agreeing with, but KNOWING, that Socrates is right about everything he says about trading. Socrates knows his stuff - it's as simple as that - it's not opinion, it's fact.

I could say a lot about SB coys but it would all be potentially libellous according to my solicitor daughter.
I certainly have nothing positive to say about them. Those who trade small amounts to learn may find them useful, but when they come to trade larger amounts, especially short term intra day trades, stories of negative re-quotes and delayed fills are legion.
Direct access to markets is the key, not book makers.
Richard

 

[bundbaby]

When you spread bet, you are just up against it! Not giving yourself the best chance.

Thats what i meant by it not being professional .

Its may be Ok for amateurs, but not for the serious traders

 

[OpenMind]

Socrates, Mr. Charts and Charliechan
I trade only UK stocks. I appreciate your views on SB. Do you recommend CFD with DA (as offered by GNI or ETrade) or a margin account with IB and the like?

Thanks as always.

 

[the blades]

LION,
Well they can malign me as well because I find myself not merely agreeing with, but KNOWING, that Socrates is right about everything he says about trading. Socrates knows his stuff - it's as simple as that - it's not opinion, it's fact.

I could say a lot about SB coys but it would all be potentially libellous according to my solicitor daughter.
I certainly have nothing positive to say about them. Those who trade small amounts to learn may find them useful, but when they come to trade larger amounts, especially short term intra day trades, stories of negative re-quotes and delayed fills are legion.
Direct access to markets is the key, not book makers.
Richard

So could you answer my question from post No 55?

I'm not trying to catch anyone out here. When I see obvious evidence that I can get a better deal elsewehere, I will.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[LION63]

So could you answer my question from post No 55?

I'm not trying to catch anyone out here. When I see obvious evidence that I can get a better deal elsewehere, I will.

Cheers,
UTB

You are asking for the impossible.

 

[the blades]

You are asking for the impossible.

Eyup Lion,

Is that because I haven't provided enough information, because there is no better method for me, or because some will refuse to admit that spreadbetting has a place for anyone other that "small time, amateurs, starters etc etc..." ?

UTB

 

[LION63]

On the contrary The Blades, it is plain to see that your profits exceed the Capital Gains limit; even if you were very charitable and willing to spread 40% of it about, surely you can manage that yourself without the Revenue's assistance.

The markets accommodate all and sundry and it comes down to what what works for the individual. This clearly works for you and in my view that makes you a 'Professional' regardless of what the general consensus may be. In debates like this we all tend to lose sight of the fact that we are all seeking to make money in the markets and add to our knowledge at the same time. Yes there are those that will say they know it all but then they deceive themselves because it is impossible to know everything.

Spreadbetting is a difficult mode of trading and requires a lot of discipline, hardwork and knowledge. Too many see it as a get rich quick method and end up losing their capital due to any number of reasons - bad trading; over leverage; no money management; jumping from one market to another; lack of skill etc. etc. The strange thing is that they will not blame themselves for their failure it is always the misquotes; the price skewing; the stop hunting amongst other things that the spread betting companies do that costs them money. We all remember the kids that failed their exams because the teacher disliked them; it did not matter that they did not do their homework, take notes or attend the classes in the first place.

 

[the blades]

On the contrary The Blades, it is plain to see that your profits exceed the Capital Gains limit; even if you were very charitable and willing to spread 40% of it about, surely you can manage that yourself without the Revenue's assistance.

The markets accommodate all and sundry and it comes down to what what works for the individual. This clearly works for you and in my view that makes you a 'Professional' regardless of what the general consensus may be. In debates like this we all tend to lose sight of the fact that we are all seeking to make money in the markets and add to our knowledge at the same time. Yes there are those that will say they know it all but then they deceive themselves because it is impossible to know everything.

Spreadbetting is a difficult mode of trading and requires a lot of discipline, hardwork and knowledge. Too many see it as a get rich quick method and end up losing their capital due to any number of reasons - bad trading; over leverage; no money management; jumping from one market to another; lack of skill etc. etc. The strange thing is that they will not blame themselves for their failure it is always the misquotes; the price skewing; the stop hunting amongst other things that the spread betting companies do that costs them money. We all remember the kids that failed their exams because the teacher disliked them; it did not matter that they did not do their homework, take notes or attend the classes in the first place.

Good post Lion....but I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm after recognition as a "Pro", or that I'm implying I'm a great trader - I'm not.

The thread started along the lines of "why would anyone spreadbet" - and along with most spreadbetters I agree that it isn't suitable for many types of trading. I, and others, object to the idea that it doesn't have any place. And though it helps others to patronise, that place isn't just for the complete newby to get started.

I trade a significant account and make profit. But I'm not remarkable in any way. But I'm sure, until shown otherwise, that spreadbetting is the best method for me. For info, I used a traditional broker in my "early years"

Cheers,
UTB

 

[dolton]

Quote charliechan

"para 1 is wrong" ? - ever heard of mareva injunction?

very interesting this injunction....freezes bank accounts world wide of everyone in the loop..costs a bomb to employ a QC to "Unlock" the bugger......dutch company I worked for in the Eighties got one of these and could not get me fees paid and from memory even the spouses accounts were frozen........trust the dutch, that what comes from living below the water line I guess.

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates, Mr. Charts and Charliechan
I trade only UK stocks. I appreciate your views on SB. Do you recommend CFD with DA (as offered by GNI or ETrade) or a margin account with IB and the like?

Thanks as always.

All athe information you need is clearly laid out in this thread, you need not go round the houses with it any further, as the arguments are very easy to interpret and validate.

And as an aside, and as a consequence of a pervasive climate of envy and other negative sentiments that overhang this general arena like a leaden cloud overhead, I am reluctant to give anybody any pointers in the direction you overtly seek, and I am obligated to refrain from giving any investment or trading advice whatsoever to anyone, no matter who, at any time, under any circumstances.

I am indeed very sorry not to be of futher assistance in your enquiry.

 

[Mr. Charts]

OpenMind,
As always, you are very welcome to email me if you wish and I will help all I can off-board.
Richard

 

[Pringle]

Nicely put Socrates, you are about as much use as a politician . Given specific and real cases to comment on you give wishy washy criptic answers that are no help at all. What you get off on in all this heavens knows.
If you want to put off off potential traders and shroud everything in mystery you are doing a fine job!

Regards

Pringle

 

[Pringle]

And whist I am in the swing of insulting our legendary and senior members I would like to thank charliechan for his obvious climbdown on my proof that spreadbetting firms do not just make money from losing clients and his acceptance that SB firms make money even when their clients are winning., hard as this must have been to take.
His apologies are accepted.

 

[bluetipex]

This thread is utterly pointless.

I day trade for a living using Spreadbetting via Deal4Free and am extremely content in doing so. Anyone else's opinion on whether it's professional or inane or whatever matters not a jot to me. In essence, I have learnt long ago not to worry unduly about other people's opinions. All I care about is my bank balance.

Whether the SB companies hedge or not matters not a jot to me.

If you are an advocate of SB, then fine. If you are an advocate of DA, then fine.

This argument is utterly pointless. We are all, surely, well aware of the pros and cons of each. It is up to each individual to decide which one is most appropriate, and of course there may be some that use both.

I have read every single comment on this thread, and guess what, tomorrow I will carry on doing what I've been doing for years - day trading using Spread Betting. I have considered the arguments of those against SB, and discarded them completely. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, it seems to me that there will never be a conclusive settlement to this argument, and therefore it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Utterly pointless and now getting very, very, very boring.

 

[Pringle]

Excellent post bluetipex. I agree lets just get on with our lives spread betting and making a living.

 

[karmit]

but I'll be giving DA a try... then can be a better position to judge for myself or who knows.. maybe use
both platforms depending upon personal convenience and instrument suitability!

remember - "customer is king" and "survival of the fittest"...

whatever is not suitable for "most people" will eventually become extinct...

have a good trading day all!

cheers,
karmit