Why do you use indicators that change values when period change?
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NVP
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sure scale , perspective (as I mentioned earlier in the thread)..........
the point TRO is making is that price is all .......what we chose to judge it against is immediately subjective in its nature .........and dilutes the proposition
N
the point TRO is making is that price is all .......what we chose to judge it against is immediately subjective in its nature .........and dilutes the proposition
N
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Yes we know what he thinks as he is always banging on about it, he also constantly mentions how he gets a hard time on forums. Why do you think that is? Do you think that maybe it's because he talks but doesn't listen?
I thought forums were about discussion, you have a think about what somebody
has said and you respond. I have seen a lot of his comments and it looks like he
hasn't even read what has been said or he is so set in his ways it doesn't register.
Surely if that's the case you have to question why he's here and what is his agenda?
timsk
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IMO, the way each of us delivers the message is every bit as important as the message itself. I'm afraid I rarely venture anywhere near TRO's threads (this being an exception, obviously), as his style and delivery is, to my way of thinking at least, dogmatic and condescending. This prevents me from focussing on the message itself. Perhaps I'm the only one afflicted by this and, doubtless, I'm missing out on great pearls of wisdom that would do wonders for my trading.
Gurus of the past have often adopted a similar approach and, when asked why they do it, they say it's deliberate in order to put people off so that only the elite few 'get it' - whatever 'it' happens to be. Then the cream of the forum can rise to the top. As for me, I'm happy to swill around at the bottom of the low fat barrel along with everyone else!
Tim.
tar
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All you need is price right , but from where you get your prices ? So we're back to charts to see historical price action , levels ... etc .
Now if i want to scalp or hold for an hour i wont look at weekly and daily charts , and if i want to hold for a long time i wont look at 1 or 5 min charts , simple , that's why timeframes exists .
Yes some will say price doesn't know timeframes , but that's irrelevant to me , cuz i decide when/where to enter/exit not "price" aka marketmakers .
Now if i want to scalp or hold for an hour i wont look at weekly and daily charts , and if i want to hold for a long time i wont look at 1 or 5 min charts , simple , that's why timeframes exists .
Yes some will say price doesn't know timeframes , but that's irrelevant to me , cuz i decide when/where to enter/exit not "price" aka marketmakers .
M
malaguti
IMO, the way each of us delivers the message is every bit as important as the message itself. I'm afraid I rarely venture anywhere near TRO's threads (this being an exception, obviously), as his style and delivery is, to my way of thinking at least, dogmatic and condescending. This prevents me from focussing on the message itself. Perhaps I'm the only one afflicted by this and, doubtless, I'm missing out on great pearls of wisdom that would do wonders for my trading.
Gurus of the past have often adopted a similar approach and, when asked why they do it, they say it's deliberate in order to put people off so that only the elite few 'get it' - whatever 'it' happens to be. Then the cream of the forum can rise to the top. As for me, I'm happy to swill around at the bottom of the low fat barrel along with everyone else!
Tim.
so lets all once again reflect on these pearls of wisdom..
When you enter a trade, you specify PRICE, DIRECTION and NUMBER OF SHARES/LOTS.
You do NOT specify TIME FRAME!!
Q.E.D.(for doughnut)
Guru he is not :whistling
and on another note, this title is "why use indicators that change when periods change" and yet on another persons thread, there he is coding the bloody things he suggests shouldn't be used...
pathethic
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TheRumpledOne
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NO! There are many profitable ways to trade.
TheRumpledOne
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are you for real
Lets use your example of another thread which is actually quite sensible..all you need is a horizontal line...
If you draw a horizontal line, and lets call this line "resistance". The horizontal line has a price at £20. Your strategy is buy when resistance is broken.
in this case your idiom of price, direction and number of shares is quite valid. You will buy at £20.01 or 21, or 22 etc. You choose.
But suppose your strategy is based on a "close" above this line..perfectly valid, been used for years (just not by you it would seem) to possibly safeguard for those "false breakout" moments.
are you able to determine price now?..that "closing" price is based on what exactly? That closing price is different if you are on a 1 minute, 5 minute, 15 minute etc etc ad infinitum
The price is NOT the same, it is dependent on that one variable you have missed..yep you got it, TIMEFRAME.
So, going back to your question, can the timeframe determine the outcome of your trade?
Q.E.D.
You are confusing CONCEPT with REALITY!
The reality is if PRICE IS X on one time frame, PRICE is X ON ALL TIME FRAMES.
Now, CLOSING PRICE, is an (arbitrary) concept. Just like support, resistance, supply, demand, etc...
So, you are correct when you call price CLOSING PRICE on one time frame it is not the same as CLOSING PRICE on another time frame. However, price for a particular date and time IS THE SAME on all time frames.
Q.E.D.
A rose is a rose...
TheRumpledOne
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"An ad hominem attack against an intellectual, not against an idea, is highly flattering. It indicates that the person does not have anything intelligent to say about your message."
"I am not forcing you to accept my concepts. I only request the traders to review the market from time to time keeping in mind my concepts and if found suitable use in the trades or just ignore. Thanks for your opinion."
I explained the reason I code indicators is because if I can code them, then I understand the method/system being presented. It is how I learn. If I can't code then I don't understand.
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TheRumpledOne
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Perhaps you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope or you only see what you want to see when in comes to my participation in the forum.
Yes, forums are places to hold discussions. But your post is about me and your opinions about me and not my trading, my message or my methods. What does that say about YOUR AGENDA?
And yes, I will continue to BANG ON what I know, based on reality, are TRADING MYTHS. If you care to discuss/debate those issues then fine, have at it. But if you throw verbal punches, don't be surprised when you get punched back.
Listening is not the same as understanding or agreeing.
The one thing you fail to consider is the reason you react with hostility toward me. It is as though I have attacked your religious beliefs. Have I? The mind hates to realize what it thought was truth is fallacy and it rejects it violently. The world was "flat" for a very long time and Earth was the center of the universe in the minds of men. To challenge those FALSE BELIEFS meant death.
TheRumpledOne
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IMO, the way each of us delivers the message is every bit as important as the message itself. I'm afraid I rarely venture anywhere near TRO's threads (this being an exception, obviously), as his style and delivery is, to my way of thinking at least, dogmatic and condescending. This prevents me from focussing on the message itself. Perhaps I'm the only one afflicted by this and, doubtless, I'm missing out on great pearls of wisdom that would do wonders for my trading.
Gurus of the past have often adopted a similar approach and, when asked why they do it, they say it's deliberate in order to put people off so that only the elite few 'get it' - whatever 'it' happens to be. Then the cream of the forum can rise to the top. As for me, I'm happy to swill around at the bottom of the low fat barrel along with everyone else!
Tim.
Tim:
No dogma, in my presentations. And what exactly do you find condescending? Is it when I poke fun at SQUIGGLY LINE INDICATORS? Is it because I say TRADING IS SIMPLE? Is it because I have posted charts I have seen on the CHARTS ON DRUGS thread? Is it because I repeat the same simple message over and over?
It is my intention to stick to REALITY. I usually show methods via charting and statistical analysis. How is that condescending?
Many traders post that YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND PRICE ACTION and NEVER define price action. Question them and you'll see just how condescending some people can be!! I have defined the essence of PRICE ACTION:
PRICE ACTION
“Now, 2 patterns of market behavior happen on a regular basis:
1) the price breaks to new high's (or low's)
2) the price reverses from new high's (or low's)
They happen regardless of time frame .
They are phenomena that can be exploited without the fear if found out by others, that they might cease to exist.” - H. Rearden
1) Price will either breakout of the high, low or both of the previous bar
2) Price will not breakout of the previous bar.
You cannot reduce it any further. Anything else complicates the issue.
That answers the PRICE ACTION question, once and for all. Does that "put you off"?
When someone "gets to me", I find it is more enlightening about me and my reaction then it is about their actions. :smart:
M
malaguti
You are confusing CONCEPT with REALITY!
The reality is if PRICE IS X on one time frame, PRICE is X ON ALL TIME FRAMES.
Now, CLOSING PRICE, is an (arbitrary) concept. Just like support, resistance, supply, demand, etc...
So, you are correct when you call price CLOSING PRICE on one time frame it is not the same as CLOSING PRICE on another time frame. However, price for a particular date and time IS THE SAME on all time frames.
Q.E.D.
A rose is a rose...
I know i'm correct, but your words were...
not whether price is the same across all timeframes
are you still saying it has no outcome?
TheRumpledOne
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TheRumpledOne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRumpledOne
Do you really think the chart time frame has anything to do with the outcome of your trade?
not whether price is the same across all timeframes
are you still saying it has no outcome?
Yes, I am saying that your chart time frame when you enter the trade has nothing to do with the outcome of your trade.
Ever hear of MARK DOUGLAS author of TRADING IN THE ZONE?
"The reason you entered has no bearing on the outcome of your trade."
Perhaps you would like to debate him.
Originally Posted by TheRumpledOne
Do you really think the chart time frame has anything to do with the outcome of your trade?
not whether price is the same across all timeframes
are you still saying it has no outcome?
Yes, I am saying that your chart time frame when you enter the trade has nothing to do with the outcome of your trade.
Ever hear of MARK DOUGLAS author of TRADING IN THE ZONE?
"The reason you entered has no bearing on the outcome of your trade."
Perhaps you would like to debate him.
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M
malaguti
I'm not debating the reason behind a trade..the reason behind my hypothetical example was that price had broken through and closed higher than resistance..I know that has no bearing.
But the timeframe will, does he mention that, or do you need to misinterpret someone else?
M
malaguti
these two statements are different by the way, so what exactly are you saying yes to?
tar
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No problem with me if you dont use charts and yes you can scalp/trade without charts , thats irrelevant to me , and yes if i day trade i have in place the major S and R areas but still the trading is based on short time frame charts .
tar
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We know this , and ? Thats applicable to any tool or method ...
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timsk
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TRO,
1. One's definition of 'dogma'.
2. One's perception of what's been written.
Regarding point No 1., this is the first definition I found when I Googled it: 'A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.' Regarding the second, my perception is that this definition summarises your posts perfectly. In other words, my perception of you is that you consider yourself to be an authority on trading and post what you consider to be principles that are incontrovertibly true. Evidence of this exists in many of your posts - look no further than this thread and your exchanges with Malaguti regarding timeframes. I accept fully this might just be me and that the perception of the wider membership could be very different. If you want, you could conduct a poll in The Foyer to find out!
Only you know what your motives are for posting. Whatever they are, it's reasonable to assume that you want people to read what you write. If so, it will pay you to consider how your posts are perceived by the reader and to modify the way you write them accordingly.
If this prospect appeals to you, it will require a major change in your online persona and the way you post. A good place to start would be to STOP SHOUTING! and remove the endless cross thread repetition: restrict it to one thread only. Pretty please!
Tim.
Well, this depends on two things:
1. One's definition of 'dogma'.
2. One's perception of what's been written.
Regarding point No 1., this is the first definition I found when I Googled it: 'A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.' Regarding the second, my perception is that this definition summarises your posts perfectly. In other words, my perception of you is that you consider yourself to be an authority on trading and post what you consider to be principles that are incontrovertibly true. Evidence of this exists in many of your posts - look no further than this thread and your exchanges with Malaguti regarding timeframes. I accept fully this might just be me and that the perception of the wider membership could be very different. If you want, you could conduct a poll in The Foyer to find out!
As per dogma above, I've turned to Google for a definition. This is the first one: 'Having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.' I'm sure you'll say this doesn't apply to you and you're not patronising anyone. Unfortunately for you, it's how others perceive what you write that matters. To me, this is exactly how you come across in your posts. Again, I may be the only one.
Only you know what your motives are for posting. Whatever they are, it's reasonable to assume that you want people to read what you write. If so, it will pay you to consider how your posts are perceived by the reader and to modify the way you write them accordingly.
It's condescending because you appear to want to impose your version of reality on everyone else. When Jehovah's Witness come knocking at my door, they firmly believe that what they're saying is reality. But it's their reality - not mine. As and when you accept that other members have a trading reality that's not always aligned with yours and, amazingly enough, may even have some interesting points to make - then you'll avoid much of the conflict that appears to have dogged you on forums like T2W.
If this prospect appeals to you, it will require a major change in your online persona and the way you post. A good place to start would be to STOP SHOUTING! and remove the endless cross thread repetition: restrict it to one thread only. Pretty please!
Tim.
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