who spreadbets at £100 per point ?

lexcorp

Experienced member
If your dad had no problem at £100 that sounds good to me. If I did achieve this level and possibly even more per point maybe having more than one sb account and spread the amount ie £200/£300 around the accounts. How did your dad do with his trading over the years.?
He made a decent chunk of money (maybe £250k or so) in a year or 2 trading the dow and spx.
A lot of them gains were due to following the calls of a trader he met in some AOL chatroom or something! (he met an amazing dow trader and followed her calls) - Lost contact with her. Carried on trading on his own, but slowly started bleeding money and had the good sense to quit after he'd given back maybe 90k or so. Decided he didn't actually have an edge and had just gotten lucky

The guys I know who are trading 70 ES lots are consistently profitable and make so much money that i'm not sure anyone would believe me if I told them lol.
 

bermudaboy

Junior member
He made a decent chunk of money (maybe £250k or so) in a year or 2 trading the dow and spx.
A lot of them gains were due to following the calls of a trader he met in some AOL chatroom or something! (he met an amazing dow trader and followed her calls) - Lost contact with her. Carried on trading on his own, but slowly started bleeding money and had the good sense to quit after he'd given back maybe 90k or so. Decided he didn't actually have an edge and had just gotten lucky

The guys I know who are trading 70 ES lots are consistently profitable and make so much money that i'm not sure anyone would believe me if I told them lol.
Good to hear your dad got out ahead. Yep them Traders who do 70lots I can do the maths on my points profit per month. It's mental but having the margin at today's leverage is also silly money. 200 grand is needed really to trade Dow at £100 point but is achievable and I'm happy making a consistent +200 pts per month.
 

lexcorp

Experienced member
yeah, it's mad.
Within a few seconds of a winning trade you have this lol
1625407977194.png
 

peto

Established member
Who would trade with broker who charges a 1.6 spread, let alone 8 pips.

There are much better brokers out there. You can even get DMA spread betters if you want.

I refute the 'tax is cheaper' argument. Assuming the trader is profitable, an 8 pip spread is cheaper than a 32%-52% tax. The problem with a an 8 pip spread is not the tax, it's just not workable in 99.99% of strategies.
"You can even get DMA spread betters if you want."... who does that? Kyte Group tried it years ago, no longer available.
"Who would trade with broker who charges a 1.6 spread, let alone 8 pips. There are much better brokers out there." ... like who?
By the time I've paid for a data feed, charting program, exchange fees, DMA broker fees and the spread, the 1.6 spread from a fast platform spreadbetter doesn't seem so bad, and no accountant or tax reporting required.
 

peterpies

Newbie
"You can even get DMA spread betters if you want."... who does that? Kyte Group tried it years ago, no longer available.
"Who would trade with broker who charges a 1.6 spread, let alone 8 pips. There are much better brokers out there." ... like who?
By the time I've paid for a data feed, charting program, exchange fees, DMA broker fees and the spread, the 1.6 spread from a fast platform spreadbetter doesn't seem so bad, and no accountant or tax reporting required.
My bad,

I was thinking about these, which say they are spread betting,


But when you dive into the 'KID', they are CFD's and not spread betting.

 
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lexcorp

Experienced member
The guys I know who are trading 70 ES lots are consistently profitable and make so much money that i'm not sure anyone would believe me if I told them lol.
And here he is today shorting all of the indicies and currently sitting on about 400k for the day lol

1625588714738.png
 

ARBinstruktor

Junior member
Ever thought about a second account? With the same broker (not so easy) or another.
 

wallstreetwarrior87

Senior member
You are over complicating things. If you are trading size via SB, you should be swinging over a 3 to 5 day period, that way timing is less important, and because of this you can split your trades. So if you wanted to do say £300 you can split it into 3 x 100 trades at a spread of 1.6, and off load when you see fit.

As your size increases you have to adapt your style. For example when I scalp I can get in for £50 a point sometimes, but on average £20 seems to be the uncle point (for whatever reason), so it makes no sense to carry on this way when I can swing for £200 a point without having to worry about slipping a point (which you do when scalping).

Once you gain pro status, margin is less of a b*llache. But margin is dangerous if you don't respect risk. BTW having pro status doesn't alter your tax implications, as this is relevant to the instrument/vehicle you are using to trade. 😜
 
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bermudaboy

Junior member
Ever thought about a second account? With the same broker (not so easy) or another.
Yep a few accounts and divide the amount so as to keep the small spread is viable I suppose. Getting the trade on at around the same time/price would be the difficulty before it moved away from my entry price.
 

bermudaboy

Junior member
You are over complicating things. If you are trading size via SB, you should be swinging over a 3 to 5 day period, that way timing is less important, and because of this you can split your trades. So if you wanted to do say £300 you can split it into 3 x 100 trades at a spread of 1.6, and off load when you see fit.

As your size increases you have to adapt your style. For example when I scalp I can get in for £50 a point sometimes, but on average £20 seems to be the uncle point (for whatever reason), so it makes no sense to carry on this way when I can swing for £200 a point without having to worry about slipping a point (which you do when scalping).

Once you gain pro status, margin is less of a b*llache. But margin is dangerous if you don't respect risk. BTW having pro status doesn't alter your tax implications, as this is relevant to the instrument/vehicle you are using to trade. 😜
Hi, thanks. Yep my dax trades are usuly done by 10am bst and have smaller targets whereas Dow can last more than 1 but are more momentum style so its all about entry and execution. Once my entry price has gone its gone and I will not chase. I suppose dividing the amount over 2 to 3 different sb brokers is the way to go if I can execute the same trade all at the entry price.?? Might need some help with other people's fingers. Thanks 👍
 

peterpies

Newbie
My bad,

I was thinking about these, which say they are spread betting,


But when you dive into the 'KID', they are CFD's and not spread betting.


They have stated through email, they are spread betting accounts,

'Please note the client will need to inform us that he is using the account for Spreadbetting and we can then provide a side letter to confirm the account is a spread betting account.'

Not sure how that would satisfy HMRC though.
 
G

guest41766

Have you considered once trading on this scale that you would fall outside of the tax free status of a retail trader and be liable for income tax. Many have said this is not the case on t2w but many other traders I respect have limited companies and do not spread bet.
 

MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Trading through a limited company and a sole trader spread betting are entirely different things.

Spread betting does not incur UK income tax, regardless of scale.

Although, frankly why anyone sane would risk or try some of the scales discussed in this thread is beyond comprehension.

🙃
 
G

guest41766

If it went to court you would likely get off pay no tax on your profits but future profits would be taxed as they would class you as a professional going forward. The big hitting traders don't SB as they know this so it has never ended up in court. Futures do a significant volume of trading and are the product of choice for the scale of trading. Also you don't have counterparty risk with futures.
 

MasterOfCoin

Experienced member
Professionally spread betting as sole retail trader in the UK incurs no tax liability.

No if's. No buts. No maybes.

And no chance of being taken to court.

|End of.


Big traders using limited companies to trade do so because they want to do things that would leave them liable to tax and thus using a company wrapper considerably reduces potential tax liabilities that would otherwise ensue.
 
 
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