who should i SB with?

[tommog]

Hi,

I am about to start spread-betting for real after a year or so of 'paper trading' with a fairly successful track record. My question is what company would you recommend i join? These are the most important criteria i would need the company to meet:

1/Tight spreads (obviously) in particular daily contracts
2/ Tight stops. Having tight stops is very important to the way i like to trade
3/ Ease to sign up (just for convenience really)

At the moment capital spreads seem the best choice for me, anyone think i'm missing a better option?

Thanks for your time

 

[Faris]

Hello Tommag.

I would recommend not using any SB. I have tried all the SB company's and i think there all a waste of time especially if you intend to day trade.
If you have to use an SB, capital spreads is probably by far the best one to use. They have a good platform and very good customer service, but thats about it!! Recently have been having loads of problem with them excepting and closing trades. Im closing my account tomorrow.

Faris...

 

[tommog]

thanks faris, i wasnt expecting a reply like that. But you've got me interested in finding out more. Why are you so down-hearted about spread betting? Are you going to give up trading all together? If not what would you recommend (if anything) over SB? I'm interested to know where you are going next.

tommog

 

[donaldduke]

Tight stops & SBs are a contradiction.
If you are paying a 5 point spread. And the market moves against you by just 2 points you are already
out of the money 7 points.

Use SB for position trading, or max 1 trade a day with a fairly wide stop.
If you are making lots of intra day trades with an SB you might aswell hand them over all money to
start with and save yourself all the pain.

Use Direct Access instead.

 

[gmca686]

Faris,
I disagree with your sentiments. 12 months ago I was blaming my SB company for my poor trading record. Since then I have learnt a lot, especially how to play by their rules. Don't blame the "tools".
Today I did 8 SB day trades and made 182 points profit. I use D4F and consider then OK. But, as an aside, I tried to close a FTSE long at 4433 at about 0800. They requoted me, I rejected it. I resold instantly at 4435. They requoted me. I rejected it. I resold instantly at 4438 and got an instant fill. That mucking about cost them £50. All fills since then have been instant !!
For me SB is the way to go.
regards, G McA

 

[Faris]

Hi.

I wouldn't say im down hearted, just giving you an honest opinion about SB's.
Iv been trading for six months using an SB and a forex broker ( CMC ).
Im closing my account as i feel sometimes they do not give a clear representation of the market as there prices jump all over the place. The reason why that happens is that they there following the futures market.
Iv no intention of quitting trading: Who said i was!!!

Also i would not read to much into paper trading as trading with money is whole different ball game.

Faris...

 

[Faris]

Gmca686

I dont recall blaming any SB's for my "trading record".
The truth is iv tripled my account using SB's. I just dont like all the mucking around. Id rather just use a forex broker and get instant fills and stops, then sit around watching the screen all day and hope they have stopped you out at the price you have requested.
I trade the forex market, which is volatile especially when news is out. Do you think an SB will stop me at the level i want if price jumps by 100 points? NO cause iv tried it.

Faris...


[

 

[gmca686]

Faris,
OK, point taken !! It's horses for courses. SB suits my trading style with indices.
regards, G McA

 

[Faris]

Hi GMCA.

Hope you didn't take it the wrong way.
Just my opnion.

Happy Trading

Faris..

 

[Naz]

Any serious full time SB day trader can come and trade next to me i'll provide my second pc,broadband etc for them.They can then compare direct access against spread betting the major US indices or Nasdaq stocks.

I think i know what the result would be.

 

[schoe]

How can you compare SB with direct access when the spread is 5 times as much with SB not including the price bias. Before closing my account with my SB Company I increased my stakes dramatically from the norm and I just got re-quoted and re-quoted it was useless. They won't tolerate you winning for long before they flag you start re-quoting you and trying everything to make you lose just like the bucket shops of old.

 

[Col_Stiffler]

For the record, I just closed my SB account with Capital Spreads. The only complaint I really had was the stops - there is a minimum distance you can place it from the current price, and it was always way too far to implement proper risk/reward tactics. It just got ridiculous in my opinion.

However, I still have an account open with Finspreads, as it seems they allow stops to be placed exactly where you want them, and also offer guaranteed stops - although I know this costs extra, but I might start using them for peace of mind. I'm not able to sit and watch the screen all day.

But, my question is this - as I understand it, direct access requires that you open an account with an online broker and deposit a pretty large amount of cash to start trading. Am I correct, or have I misunderstood something? As far as I can tell, SB is really the only option for me right now. If I want to be able to short stocks and indices, SB is the only way unless I have a load of cash to trade with.

Can anyone confirm/deny this for me please? Thanks...

 

[axthree]

IMHO SB firms are OK within their limits.
It cost me money to find this out. Treat them as a "blunt instrument". If you want to use a scalpel you need Direct access.
I don't do very well day trading with SBs but with position trading I have done quite nicely.
I have also found that their slippage works as much in my favour as theirs. (An unexpected £50 is always most welcome

 

[Naz]

If you position trade, SB'ing is fine.ie the longer you hold your position and the bigger the move you're looking for the less all the problems with SB'ing matter.

However in my opinion if you want to day trade with them you've got problems.Its just a shame that so many beginners go down this route, get hurt and pack up.

 

[adrianallen99]

I went down the day trade route to start with, I tried to day trade UK stocks. Which was a big mistake.

First trade was £5 a point, short on Amvescamp. I predicted correctly there would be a big drop in the price, I tried to buy, then the call button came up. The price I eventually got was 20 points lower than I wanted. It dropped a futher 10 or so points and then start to come back up. I sold for 1 point profit (and was lucky to get that.) Over the first week of trying to do this I saw £300 slowly evaporate.

Hardest thing was, I predicted correctly what would happen on most occassions, but in most cases due to spreads and pricing was unable to profit from it. <-- Perhaps if Id know in advance how they operated, I would have been able to deal with correctly.

Before spreadbetting I had just traded stocks through an online broker, which I had done very successfully, and by not changing my strategy for spreadbetting, I managed to gradually erode most of my profits for the year. I was tempted to trade by spreadbetting because from the outside on the same trade it looks like you can make 10-20x the amount, but this isn't really the case if you don't understand how spreadbetting really works.

 

[rossored]

But, my question is this - as I understand it, direct access requires that you open an account with an online broker and deposit a pretty large amount of cash to start trading. Am I correct, or have I misunderstood something? As far as I can tell, SB is really the only option for me right now. If I want to be able to short stocks and indices, SB is the only way unless I have a load of cash to trade with.

You're half right.

If you want to daytrade US stocks, then yes, you need to place $25000 down with your brokers. You can swing trade with less, however.

But, if you want to trade indices - mini Dow, mini S&P, mini Nasdaq, for example - you can trade these with an account balance of £1500 upwards through a broker like IB. Dow is cheapest, followed closely by Nas and then S&P.

 

[gmca686]

The debate between futures trading versus SB'ing will go on forever. It's horses for courses!
Through my business interests I am a 40% taxpayer, therefore any CGT will be paid at 40%. Why should I not minimise my tax liability and trade tax free instruments? Being able to offset losses doesn't bother me as I don't produce many. Trading the e mini S+P futures the spread is 0.25, with SB it is 0.5. I lose .25 per trade (2.5 points). However, a futures trader would have to make 66.7% more profit than me to balance out the CGT, ( ie £100 profit results in £40 tax leaving £60 net. If I make £60 SBing, a futures trader has to make £100 to have the same net profit.)
I'll change to futures trading indices if some can convince me that by doing so I'll make at least 66.7% more than I do now.
regards, GMcA

 

[rossored]

I dont think anyone is trying to convince anyone of anything. You pay your money, you take your choice.

 

[luckylady]

If you position trade, SB'ing is fine.ie the longer you hold your position and the bigger the move you're looking for the less all the problems with SB'ing matter.

However in my opinion if you want to day trade with them you've got problems.Its just a shame that so many beginners go down this route, get hurt and pack up.

Following a home study course @ £297, I have been SBing with IG Index for 9 weeks and am showing a reasonable profit. I have had no problem with them. I appreciate that price bias and wide spreads limit profits but, as a complete novice, it has given me a painless introduction to trading. I usually hold my positions for 1-3 days. Am I about to" get hurt and pack up"?

 

[axthree]

Luckylady,
Not if you don't get careless or over ambitious.
In the past I have been guilty of both these sins. Had I avoided temptation I would have doubled my pot in the first three months.