What trading platform( depth of market-DOM ) for scalpers.

bootsyjam

Active member
229 22
Thanks for your info T44. I m holding back with optimus that goes thru amp futures at the moment, until I clear up issues like reliability. Has DDT been in the industry for long.. reputatable with reliable fills in your experience?

I m using IB. slippage on YM is normal. either price slips past my entry stops n dun get executed or v occassionally slips past my stop loss for a worse fill.

Dow futures are a relatively thin market, you'll always get slippage on it no matter what datafeed/clearer/platform you use.
Price of TT has not gone down. Hence why it is important to know your acct size because if it's 100k then you won't care about the cost.
 

bootsyjam

Active member
229 22
Hi Bootsy,

I'm not a scalper either, trades usually last from a few mins to a few hours. As described in my earlier post I use Sierra with a CQG FIX feed, usually trading direct from a chart, sometimes from a Dom. It has never occurred to me that using CQG or CTS as I have in the past might give worse fills than TT. Do you know whether the evidence is just anecdotal or the result of genuine comparisons?

Thanks, T

Hi T44,

The prop traders I spoke to were part of a prop shop who traded through Marex here in the UK (major clearer here). So it's a combination of the quality/speed of the market data as well as that of your clearer, on top of the front end platform (e.g. TT/Sierra Charts) you use to enter the market! To drive my charts I have dtn.iq feed with Investor RT charts, but my trading DOM is driven by the data feed from my broker/clearer.

I've used Sierra in the past to trade off and it is pretty good, it doesn't quite have the functionality with volume profile that I'm after so I stopped using it. If you're swing trading I don't think it really matters too much to have TT, but if you're looking for v short term trades e.g. flipping, or front running large orders for a few ticks, or getting an entry and then a subsequent profit taking order at the market open at 7am (UK time) in the first few seconds of trading then TT, with a good broker/clearer would be the way ahead for sure.

And the final thing is, when (because it's always when and not 'if') the sh*t goes down and the market breaks because of a bank going under/terrorist attack/unexpected interest rate rise, you'll want to have the best feed, with the best connection to a clearer, with the best platform available, in order to make sure you're in the correct spot in the queue.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about order routing to make an expert comment.
Do you enter the market via the CQG data-is that the roker data? Or is it transmitted via CQG to the broker/clearer who then transmits it to the market?
It's a rabbit hole to go into, I know that much:)

If you use stop losses, do you know whether the stop losses that you see on the chart (if trading from the chart) are actually transmitted to the exchange, or are they held locally (on your PC) or on the broker's system, and are transmitted to the exchange when they are hit?
I seem to remember asking that to SC but I cna't remember the response!
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 1
DDT is an introducing broker, one man band it appears a guy called Howard Lender. His CS is spot on, rarely wait more than a couple of hours on a reply to a basic enquiry, and more important stuff is very quick. They clear through Ironbeam, which it seems is a subsidiary of Wedbush these days. You get a choice of datafeeds which is where Bootsy's fills issue may come in. I've never noticed any issues, but if you do lose a tick a side compared to TT then it would mount up....don't know how to test this though!

I looked at AMP but opted for DDT a few years ago, DDT cleared Crossland at the time, they got bought out.

I use Dorman at the mo, despite being a clearer they do take retail clients, but I do find their CS rather patchy although once everythings set up and agreed its fine......but I'm considering going back to DDT in the near future.

The issue I am having with these discount futures firms are that there is absolutely no protection if they go bankrupt. Most of these firms r just white labels, going thru a real broker.

At least IB is registered with Securities Investor Protection Corporation. However, AMP futures & Ironbeam are not, from a quick check at finra-

https://brokercheck.finra.org/search/genericsearch/firmgrid
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=ibgStrength&p=acc

AMP futures does not have SIPC - http://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=8bbe45d8-da55-4f6d-a364-87c2f2933984
FIA Protection on Customer Funds - https://secure.fia.org/downloads/PCF_questions.pdf

I'm still looking for a funds protected broker with lower fees, offering tick charts.
 

T44

Member
58 8
Thanks Bootsy I appreciate your explanation, and yes it sure is a complicated subject....One thing I do know is that Sierra has the option to hold attached orders within it's servers or submitted to the exchange, there is a check box somewhere deep in the software for you to choose....I go with the latter although stops tend to go further away than I intend and I drag them in if the trade looks like it's going wrong.
 

T44

Member
58 8
Econ,

Sounds like you are going through the same hoops and concerns that I did a few years ago when I was looking to save commissions over IB s. I think that as Bootsy says if you haven't got a 100k ac where TT s $800 ish a month is a small percentage, then there is no one broker that fits all. The Ironbeam issue you found is the main reason I am still with Dorman despite the patchy poor CS.

The one thing for me that is a must is Sierra Chart, back 10 years ago it had the reputation of being cheap and cheerful and I paid the extra for esignal. 4 years ago as a result of a post on here I took another look, and was amazed the progress was superb but it's still cheap!! If you trade off charts then the chart trade function is excellent.
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 1
Econ,

Sounds like you are going through the same hoops and concerns that I did a few years ago when I was looking to save commissions over IB s. I think that as Bootsy says if you haven't got a 100k ac where TT s $800 ish a month is a small percentage, then there is no one broker that fits all. The Ironbeam issue you found is the main reason I am still with Dorman despite the patchy poor CS.

The one thing for me that is a must is Sierra Chart, back 10 years ago it had the reputation of being cheap and cheerful and I paid the extra for esignal. 4 years ago as a result of a post on here I took another look, and was amazed the progress was superb but it's still cheap!! If you trade off charts then the chart trade function is excellent.

Thanks for your recommendation! More research is telling me that there is no difference for futures brokers. For eg, dorman & optimus both state that your account funds r held as “Customer Segregated”. This segregated account structure protects you from suffering a loss, should your broker or clearing firm file for bankruptcy." "but there is no level of regulation or other safeguards that can 100% protect an investor in the case of fraud or other inappropriate activity."

Of course this just means that you should diversify with 2 or more brokers. International clients of MF Global took 2+ years to get their funds back.

https://www.dormantrading.com/about-us/safety-of-funds/
http://support.optimusfutures.com/customer/portal/articles/757975-is-my-money-safe-

TT's $800/$100,000 is close to 1%. That's pretty ex if you ask me. I found some brokers offering the TT platform at reduced costs. Optimus seems to offer this. Have not demo-ed though.
 

bootsyjam

Active member
229 22
Thanks for your recommendation! More research is telling me that there is no difference for futures brokers. For eg, dorman & optimus both state that your account funds r held as “Customer Segregated”. This segregated account structure protects you from suffering a loss, should your broker or clearing firm file for bankruptcy." "but there is no level of regulation or other safeguards that can 100% protect an investor in the case of fraud or other inappropriate activity."

Of course this just means that you should diversify with 2 or more brokers. International clients of MF Global took 2+ years to get their funds back.

https://www.dormantrading.com/about-us/safety-of-funds/
http://support.optimusfutures.com/customer/portal/articles/757975-is-my-money-safe-

TT's $800/$100,000 is close to 1%. That's pretty ex if you ask me. I found some brokers offering the TT platform at reduced costs. Optimus seems to offer this. Have not demo-ed though.

If you have a 100k acct the point is that your lot size means your earnings are going to render TT costs irrelevant. If you risk 0.5% of your bank on every trade that is $500 risk. No idea what your win ratio + trade frequency+ average stop + average profit is but safe to say that $800 pcm would be chicken feed if you're pulling in $2k profits per day. Get my point?

If you want the best order entry platform then you have to pay for it.You asked for a recommendation. I recommended the best. You also said you were a scalper. TT is the best for that. Except you're not a scalper and trade off charts. So why use a DOM?


R.e. segregated accts-don't believe the hype. Accts are segregated until the day you find out that they aren't. I believe MF Global accts were supposed to be segregated. Didn't stop them did it. At least in that respect Interactive Brokers seem to be better than most.
 

T44

Member
58 8
Forgot to say if you have the A/C size I hear good reports of Advantage Futures, not followed up for a while might be worth a look
 

LondonViking

Newbie
1 0
I use Jigsaw for the Depth of Sales. It is standalone or hooks up to some brokers via their software or via Ninjatrader (among a few). It accepts a number of data feeds.
 

Quantower

Junior member
39 2
Quantower platform has good and professional Depth of Market. With Rithmic feed you can see the full depth
dom-trader-volume-profile.gif
 

Quantower

Junior member
39 2
Added two new columns called Last Bid & Ask Trades to the DOM Trader panel which shows the recently traded volume for both Bid and Ask separately at the current trading price. One of the main features of these columns is that when several trades executed at the same price, the cell will show cumulative volume. As soon as the price changes and trades are executed at the new price, the data will be written to the new cell and will also accumulate. At the same time, the values at the previous price will remain visible. Thanks to this, you will be able to see absorption or exhaustion at important support and resistance levels, or assess who dominates the market, buyers or sellers.

1587734625785.png
 
 
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