What is realistic?

new4

Newbie
1 0
I'm pretty new at trading, but would try to follow someone else and make profits that way...

However, some people tell me that 5% per month is way too much. Then I noticed some systems on Collective2 which gain 20-30% per month. Is that even remotely possible?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

timsk

Legendary member
7,477 2,234
Hi new4,
Welcome to T2W.

It's possible to make returns like that in a day - so yes, 100% per month is perfectly doable. By the same token, if you play the lottery, you can make returns of many millions in a single day. What most traders strive for is some sort of consistency. Making 100% in one month is no good if you're losing the same amount (or more) the next month and the month after that. So, when you read of impressive gains, always look at the bigger picture. That's before you look at key metrics like the success ratio or profit ratio. Some traders will claim to have a 90%+ success ratio. On it's own, this sounds like an awesome statistic. However, there's no point winning $10.00 on 9 winning trades, only to lose $100 on the one losing one. You get the general idea.

If you want to start researching these ideas, check out the first two links in my signature, below.
Tim.
 

pboyles

Legendary member
8,072 1,302
I'm pretty new at trading, but would try to follow someone else and make profits that way...

However, some people tell me that 5% per month is way too much. Then I noticed some systems on Collective2 which gain 20-30% per month. Is that even remotely possible?

The vast majority of people lose money, that is fact. Therefore realistically you will most likely lose some, or all, of your money. A lot of systems you see advertised use misleading statistics, for instance they will leave any losing position open and not report it whilst a winning trade will be closed and reported in their results. Believe me you will learn a very hard lesson if you fall for any of these stories about 5% a month.
 

Steve

Well-known member
437 108
All the stories you read about money being taken from you one way or another are based in fact. In my experience the only way to succeed is to treat your trading like a job and develop the knowledge and skills that you would in any new venture.

You should also figure out what kind of salary makes it worthwhile for you and work to that as an annual target for net trading profits.

If you believe any of the tall tales about unachievable monthly or annual returns then you are doomed from the start so don't do it.

It is hard work and a long haul but well worth it for some. Hopefully you will be one of them!

Make sure you do what Tim says and read all the stuff on here that will help you.
 
M

member275544

0 0
Are you saying that its not possible to grab 5% of your capital per month. I think a lot more people are doing this and they use effective methods. I also go against following every little strategy posted online.

They are either lying to you, or you are sadly mistaken
 

myLIVEaccount

Junior member
22 1
True... Look for consistency and reasonable money management. Also compare monthly % performance vs. max. %drawdown. Anything worse then 1:2 should be avoided IMO.


Hi new4,
Welcome to T2W.

It's possible to make returns like that in a day - so yes, 100% per month is perfectly doable. By the same token, if you play the lottery, you can make returns of many millions in a single day. What most traders strive for is some sort of consistency. Making 100% in one month is no good if you're losing the same amount (or more) the next month and the month after that. So, when you read of impressive gains, always look at the bigger picture. That's before you look at key metrics like the success ratio or profit ratio. Some traders will claim to have a 90%+ success ratio. On it's own, this sounds like an awesome statistic. However, there's no point winning $10.00 on 9 winning trades, only to lose $100 on the one losing one. You get the general idea.

If you want to start researching these ideas, check out the first two links in my signature, below.
Tim.
 

tony1979

Active member
112 22
All the stories you read about money being taken from you one way or another are based in fact. In my experience the only way to succeed is to treat your trading like a job and develop the knowledge and skills that you would in any new venture.

You should also figure out what kind of salary makes it worthwhile for you and work to that as an annual target for net trading profits.

If you believe any of the tall tales about unachievable monthly or annual returns then you are doomed from the start so don't do it.

It is hard work and a long haul but well worth it for some. Hopefully you will be one of them!

Make sure you do what Tim says and read all the stuff on here that will help you.

Sorry Steve, but I disagree with aspects of your advice. Somewhat surprisingly, the very reasons people stay net losers in this business is because they treat trading like a job, and they aim to make a certain amount per year.

The sooner one can lose the "job" mentality, the quicker their bottom line will benefit. You are not paid for your desk time in this business, and if you think in terms of pay per hour, week, month or year, your chances of succeeding will be greatly diminished.

From my experience, the harsh truth is that it's incredibly unlikely you'll make a penny of profit for the first 3 years minimum, and even once you've acquired the necessary skills and expertise, you can still be losing net for weeks, months and perhaps even a whole year (you should expect this too). Profits usually arrive during a very limited and irregular window space, and it's up to the trader to sufficiently exploit this period. So, could you trade for 45 weeks without making any money, and still persist with your confidence unwavered, in order to capitalise on 3 weeks of opportunity?? If you treat trading like a job and you aim to make a certain amount per year, then I doubt it.

Trading is difficult enough on it's own, but when you add in social pressures and ego, it becomes that much harder "losing" for long periods while your acquaintances are whooping it up. If social standing, possessions and peer salaries are important to you, which when people are honest; they are (it's a question of how important), trading is just about the worst career you can possibly choose....

.....at least for the first 3-10 years anyway.
 

Trader333

Moderator
8,613 939
...the very reasons people stay net losers in this business is because they treat trading like a job, ......

In my view there is a significant difference between treating something as a job as opposed to a business. As you say in a job you are expecting to earn an amount each month and year and there is unlikely to be any need to engage in continuous improvements to maintain that income.

For me in business I don't make that assumption and many of the ventures I have engaged in I have known will not give any return initially and I don't rely on getting a return. What I will do is set time limits on how long I will pursue the activity and engaging in continuous improvements to achieve desired results before letting it go. Applying this approach to trading is perfectly good in my view and takes off all the pressure that would come by taking the former approach. Some ventures I have been involved in have cost me £70K with no return but then others have been very successful and I take the view that some will work and some wont. What matters is that the ones that do work return a lot more than those that don't which is a little bit like trading is.
 

jungles

Guest
614 67
prop firms i've approached tell me i need to make 100% pa to keep a small account; this return requirement decreases as the account size increases

i've had risk managers tell me that traders earning more than 150% pa are likely to be taking too much risk and therefore on the road to ruin

...........is the OP here to promote C2?

I'm pretty new at trading, but would try to follow someone else and make profits that way...

However, some people tell me that 5% per month is way too much. Then I noticed some systems on Collective2 which gain 20-30% per month. Is that even remotely possible?
 

bustech

Experienced member
1,595 41
Nothing wrong in calling it a job.

If it pays my mortgage, bills and supply's food.

Plus allows me to go out for meal once a week.

Couple of holiday's each year.

Update my car every 4 or 5 year's

Keep' s increasing the pension fund.

If the account also grow's well's that a bonus for the job.

Sound's like an okay job.

Anyway back to the weekend, work's start's again Monday at 6am.:(
 

Aspen Trading Group

Well-known member
427 1
I'm pretty new at trading, but would try to follow someone else and make profits that way...

However, some people tell me that 5% per month is way too much. Then I noticed some systems on Collective2 which gain 20-30% per month. Is that even remotely possible?

Trading is not a hobby that you learn by attending one of those cheesy weekend seminars at the Best Western by the airport. Nope, just like any other profession you need to study, get in the trenches and see what works and what does not.

My buddy here in town is a brain & spine neurosurgeon – yeah – freakin’ smart guy. Last I saw, his credentials were not from Conference Room A at the Ramada Inn. Yep, he put in his dues – something like 12 years and $200k+ in student loans.

So, unless you do not need to work and have ample income, the only way to join the trading game is to go on the journey like everyone else. Along the way you will find information that fits in with YOUR personality and trading style and risk tolerance.

When and if you make it though - it is the most rewarding experience you will ever have.
 

resistance

Member
89 1
The 5% will be way too much if your capital is about 50k and if you get something like 2-3% on that account it will be a realistic thing. Aiming even 10% will expose your account to good risk of money.
 
 
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