Welles Wilder's Delta Phenomenon Book.

[Darryl James]

Just wondered if anybody had actually read this book, and can confirm that it teaches the delta phenomenon theory in enough detail to be able to develop a consistently profitable trading system based on delta. Does anyone know if the delta phenomenon actually works or if it is just another very subjective theory which is open to different interpretations? I would like to read the book but at a cost of about £125.00 it seems rather expensive.

Any valid comments would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Darryl.

 

[dbphoenix]

You may want to look at the reviews on Amazon (where a used copy can be had for $75, which can also buy a lot of chocolate.)

 

[Darryl James]

Thanks for that info, I hadn't thought of Amazon, $75.00 is a much more reasonable price.

Kind regards,

Darryl.

 

[new_trader]

Just wondered if anybody had actually read this book, and can confirm that it teaches the delta phenomenon theory in enough detail to be able to develop a consistently profitable trading system based on delta. Does anyone know if the delta phenomenon actually works or if it is just another very subjective theory which is open to different interpretations? I would like to read the book but at a cost of about £125.00 it seems rather expensive.

Any valid comments would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Darryl.

Darryl,

Asking the question "Does X system actually work" is almost like asking "Which religion is the right one?" Browse through this forum and you will find out for yourself just how many different opinions there are on anything and everything trading related....or not.

 

[Curran]

Yes, I have read it but the software that comes with it is vital. It is interesting but it has a nasty habit of leaving you guessing. It usually identifies the high/low point turning points but occasionally, it extends ( you expect it to go up and it continues to go down to the next target). Actually, it caused me to create my own system. Why not ask one of the members if you can see their copy ?

 

[BlackMonday]

The delta book is definately worth a read.
At first you think you've discovered how the market reallyworks.
The you try and trade it and think its nonsense.
They you go back to it, and realise it definately has a place in any strategy.

Thats my experience at least

 

[2be]

For more info pls read this thread. http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/24547-delta-phenomenon-willes-welder.html
I would add that it is possible to programm mt4, for different time frames and use mt4 fibo in respect of time and price with a manual EW count. The only thing is that writing a text on mt4 is a bit more complicated. So the software issue and data feed can be resolved this way. A friend of mine has written a programm that does the possible widow counts automaticaly, on MT4 on different timeframes. It is being tested atm. I use other software, and only EOD data.
Happy trading,
2be

 

[marketeer]

Expanding on Delta

Hi Darryl
I bought the Delta book about 3 years ago and it certainly challenges convensional views on trading, however, I have since found a system based on Delta (as a time based foundation if you like) but which incorporates Fibonacci and Elliot Waves into the system. It's called The Market Matrix and I find it absolutly fasinating.It was developed by a man named Steve Copen and you will find it on his website The Market Matrix By Steve Copan. In my humble opinion, it is far more acurate than Delta on it's own. If you do decide to look into it some more, then keep in touch and give me your thoughts on it.
Good Luck
Marketeer

Just wondered if anybody had actually read this book, and can confirm that it teaches the delta phenomenon theory in enough detail to be able to develop a consistently profitable trading system based on delta. Does anyone know if the delta phenomenon actually works or if it is just another very subjective theory which is open to different interpretations? I would like to read the book but at a cost of about £125.00 it seems rather expensive.

Any valid comments would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Darryl.

 

[2be]

Hi Darryl
I bought the Delta book about 3 years ago and it certainly challenges convensional views on trading, however, I have since found a system based on Delta (as a time based foundation if you like) but which incorporates Fibonacci and Elliot Waves into the system. It's called The Market Matrix and I find it absolutly fasinating.It was developed by a man named Steve Copen and you will find it on his website The Market Matrix By Steve Copan. In my humble opinion, it is far more acurate than Delta on it's own. If you do decide to look into it some more, then keep in touch and give me your thoughts on it.
Good Luck
Marketeer

I am familiar with the matrix, they have changed their Delta counts a bit lately, so I have been informed. Come whichever system one uses, the best counts both of Delta and EW are the one which you have worked out or familiarised yourself sufficiently with them to call them yours for the trading purposes. Fibs one usualy has to have anyway, if there is any application of EW in the way that Robert Miner explains it in Dynamic Trading, a book worth having, reading and referencing, especially the summsry of the characteristics of EWs.
Are you making some counts at the moment? or are you still studying this approach.
Happy trading,
2be

 

[Paddington]

Just to point out that a book on the market matrix has just been released which may be easier going than the CDs (released yesterday so I have yet to receive my copy).

As I think mentioned above with these approaches getting them to work for you is very different to them working for someone else. I only came across delta through matrix so cannot comment on the standalone version. By incorporating various geometries matrix highlights points in time/ price for the turns. Is it easy? definitely not. Does it work/ can you use it profitably? I would say yes BUT it probably needs to suit your personality and belief systems. I'm putting alot of work into this because I can see how it works but understand at the same time how frustrating geometry can be at times. Matrix can help depending on you, but don't buy thinking one read will make you a master trader with these techniques; nothing in trading is like that. If you've got a system that's working well for you at the moment I woudl say stick with that, if you're interested in geometry then this builds very nicely on various books about this stuff

P

 

[ZEPPO]

Just to point out that a book on the market matrix has just been released which may be easier going than the CDs (released yesterday so I have yet to receive my copy).

As I think mentioned above with these approaches getting them to work for you is very different to them working for someone else. I only came across delta through matrix so cannot comment on the standalone version. By incorporating various geometries matrix highlights points in time/ price for the turns. Is it easy? definitely not. Does it work/ can you use it profitably? I would say yes BUT it probably needs to suit your personality and belief systems. I'm putting alot of work into this because I can see how it works but understand at the same time how frustrating geometry can be at times. Matrix can help depending on you, but don't buy thinking one read will make you a master trader with these techniques; nothing in trading is like that. If you've got a system that's working well for you at the moment I woudl say stick with that, if you're interested in geometry then this builds very nicely on various books about this stuff

P

Hi Paddington, where is the release of that book,please? I mean, where can I buy it? And, er..., how much does it costs?
I've got Dynamic Trading, by Robert Milner, and he does de-mystify EW; bulky, but good book; also, some nice entry strategies; he also follows Gann methodology on time strategies.

 

[Paddington]

Hi Zeppo,
it's at The Market Matrix By Steve Copan and it ain't cheap. I found the CD course quite eye opening for me but then it linked into some concepts I was already using but it went further and put them into more of a holistic framework. The book is probably more accessible than the CDs and simpler to find the bit you're looking for but probably goes into less detail on some examples (though more up to date).

You're welcome to pm with any questions
P

 

[marketeer]

The bigger picture

Just to point out that a book on the market matrix has just been released which may be easier going than the CDs (released yesterday so I have yet to receive my copy).

As I think mentioned above with these approaches getting them to work for you is very different to them working for someone else. I only came across delta through matrix so cannot comment on the standalone version. By incorporating various geometries matrix highlights points in time/ price for the turns. Is it easy? definitely not. Does it work/ can you use it profitably? I would say yes BUT it probably needs to suit your personality and belief systems. I'm putting alot of work into this because I can see how it works but understand at the same time how frustrating geometry can be at times. Matrix can help depending on you, but don't buy thinking one read will make you a master trader with these techniques; nothing in trading is like that. If you've got a system that's working well for you at the moment I woudl say stick with that, if you're interested in geometry then this builds very nicely on various books about this stuff

P

I think you're absolutly right, neither the Delta or the Matrix system are easy but then nothing is that's worthwhile. and I do believe both are very worthwhile. Both Welles Wilder and Steve Copen have spent years of study and back testing this stuff. To them it probably is easy, but for us traders we need to do the work required in understanding it's value. I have lost quite a bit of money trading short term moves and intraday spreadbetting. But now, using the Matrix system I trade only the Medium term points (MC2) which is much safer in my humble opinion. I still use the short term and intraday charts for my entry and exit signals. Keeping an open mind and incorporating other more basic indicators such as suspport/resistance/moving averages/candle stick patterns, all help to confirm when matrix points are due.
I would not reccomend anyone stops their current trading strategies in favour of any new or untested ones, but would say that it's worth spending time learning, testing and integrating new ideas with current ones to perhaps enhance existing strategies.
I would be interested in hearing any views from anyone using The Delta or Matrix systems, particularly in the areas of average time distance probabilities and Inversions.

Marketeer

 

[Option1]

Hi

Funnily enough I have managed to get hold of the Delta Phonemon and was looking to use it on the FX markets

Anyone else tried it ?

 

[trendie]

Hi

Funnily enough I have managed to get hold of the Delta Phonemon and was looking to use it on the FX markets

Anyone else tried it ?

tried it, yes. use it, no.
the turning points etc, are fairly easy to determine. I used the zig-zag function to give me some form of objectivity for swings. (stops me from force-fitting a swing) however, the early-arrival, late-arrival due to weakness or strength of market was too discretionary.
I also find the larger turning points to be shifting, ie, they have moved from "blue line" to "red line", if you see what I mean.

however, I have recently started to have a look in a non-Delta sort of way, and see if there are any patterns, on GBPUSD for example.
weirdly, I have found 44,45,46 and 84,86 days between swings common, when I would expect randomness. I did this by applying zig-zag on daily charts, and simply noted swing-highs and swing-lows. If I apply some discretion on congestion areas, I could argue the true swing happened earlier or later by a small bit, and thus increase the 21/22 day multiple occurences. (I have assumed that 43/44/45 and 86 etc are multiples of approx 21/22 days)
All the counts are calendar days, not trading days.
much as I would love to say there is some mystical event going on, cant help but feel banks and governments play a bigger role in the swings.

as an example, I have attached MY Delta for GBPUSD. (I use the colours, bit not necessarily in the correct order)
you can see the swing-highs in orange-boxes close between Green and Blue lines, nearer the Blue rather than the Green. Thats still a whopping 14-day variance. (or a early arrival)

The swing-lows, shown as aqua-boxes, appear in the latter half of the Orange-to-Red section.
The "Inversion?" note shows when the swing-lows and swing-highs appear to have swapped around.
make of it what you will, and be certain that my opinion dont amount to a hill of beans in this crazy trading world.

best of luck.

 

[trendie]

actually, I have tightened up the analysis. the orange boxes are narrower, but still represent about 7 days. what I have done is put the orange boxes, swing-highs, right against the Blue line. And narrower, aqua boxes, swing-lows, right against the Red line.

you can now see when they "hit", or "miss" that narrowed region.
they do seem to swing at the points, but sometimes go sideways, or stop you out by forming a higher or lower in the next region.

I have now posted two images, spanning a larger time. the yellow box is just a reference to join the two charts together, as you cant see the dates clearly.

also, early on there is an inversion, where the orange boxes show swing-lows.

 

[Option1]

Wow trendie - as I said I have only started the book
From looking at your chart - i think that the lines represent a good filter that you could overly on another system