W. Bush: Destroyer of the US Empire

There's a difference between fighting a war fifty years ago and today's fanatics.

In WWII we were boxed in, at one point, but we had confidence that we were all on the same side. The odd spys and traitors were few and far between to the man in the street. We were all together when the bombs were dropping.

With this lot, we don't know who or where they are. So we attack what we think that we can see, i.e. Afghanistan and Iraq and, if we are not careful, we can attack our own people, just because they are muslims.

There's a big psychological difference.

Split

I see the enemy as being within.

People who want more money wealth and power.

ie. Big corporations, governments and MPs.

The individual plonker if he thinks he can get away with it will try it. If he gets away with couple of hundred pounds we'll lockem up. Executives and MPs will lose billions, millions or even 000s and he'll get a smack on the wrists.

Case in point the Guinness afair where the main culprit pleaded senile dementure and was released after 3 months from prison. The 84-year-old was given priority because of his age and infirmity, and the move encouraged the other defendants to follow a similar course.

Look at the conclusion - All the men denied charges of conspiracy, false accounting and theft. It has been speculated that the four could win compensation of up to £40m if their convictions are quashed. People suffer far more horrendous miscarriage of justice and get peanuts. I reckon they are guilty as hell anyway because I'm in bad mood (n) :cheesy:.

What I'm trying to say is that the damage done by our internal popullace in many cases are far worse than anything that can be thrown at us externaly.

The spy agencies - Slam dunk case of WMD in Iraq, the police, the banks. Look at Enron & Northern Rock. Pushing people to take out loans they can't afford to pay back and then seize their homes. How many suicides is this likely to contribute too as well as years of misery.

Look at Dick Chaneys private company profiteering from the war and deaths in Iraq and tell me there isn't a conflict of interest.

When the US troops come back they don't even get medical cover. Those who come back physically fit are mentally disturbed and sooner or later end up killing people.

Those who evade first to killers turn up in vegitative state due to all the experimental drugs they have had tested on them by the Pentagon and US health departments.

I may sound like Victor Mildrew but amazing how I didn't see all this before when I was younger... :mad:
 
BSD, I would still like you to comment on the NAU and what you think about the perpetuated collapse.

I think you need to look at this from a different angle. Not that americans are fighting terrorists, but want to form the NAU and in order to make the americans accept it, they had to create a panic/fear of economic & terrorist collapse/attacks.


This whole event has been in the makings for decades.



DT
:)


Not sure what you rabbiting on about DT but NAU is a good idea. In fact you already have it with Canada so what difference is it going to make?

When you say write off debt that's bull.

There will be pay back. If not now because US has military power it will be in a 100 years time.

You can't write off international debt. Look what American banks have done to Latin America for the last 50/60 years. Do you think their debts got written off?
 
Another thing, I think it was highly irresponsible of you more intelligent members to not comment on my comment about Americans and there gun obssesions.

I know this worked perfectly into your stereotyping americans (me) as primative. ..but this is real psychology that needs to be addressed. I strongly feel americans have a greatly different mindset when it comes to what they want, and what there willing to do for 'it'.

Over look this and you will never understand americans.

In order for there to be global harmany everyone must be equal. Here in america there is a calm because everyone has access to weapons, in other countries there is peace because noone has weapons.

When you have two cultures that interact with one another, it's going to be the one with the primative mind set that is regulating the immediate scene. Yes, you may be ethically correct, but the only thing that matters is what is happening now.

This isn't Germany, this isn't Russia or China. This is a situation that has never been seen before and be don't know what might really happen.

This all gets tied in to the NAU, in order for there to be peace there going to need to get rid of the 'primative' man. The last bastion of man being the 2nd amendment.



They need (want) to control the last free men on earth. They'll say it's to stop America, but in fact it will be to stop the last free man, then they'll start to really tighten the noose on all of mankind.


It's one big trap set. It's a fake terrorist war in order to tighten the final noose on mankind. They want you to hate america and everything it should stand for.

Once you fear 'freedom' you'll have none.




DT
:)
 
I see the enemy as being within.

People who want more money wealth and power.

ie. Big corporations, governments and MPs.

The individual plonker if he thinks he can get away with it will try it. If he gets away with couple of hundred pounds we'll lockem up. Executives and MPs will lose billions, millions or even 000s and he'll get a smack on the wrists.

Case in point the Guinness afair where the main culprit pleaded senile dementure and was released after 3 months from prison. The 84-year-old was given priority because of his age and infirmity, and the move encouraged the other defendants to follow a similar course.

Look at the conclusion - All the men denied charges of conspiracy, false accounting and theft. It has been speculated that the four could win compensation of up to £40m if their convictions are quashed. People suffer far more horrendous miscarriage of justice and get peanuts. I reckon they are guilty as hell anyway because I'm in bad mood (n) :cheesy:.

What I'm trying to say is that the damage done by our internal popullace in many cases are far worse than anything that can be thrown at us externaly.

The spy agencies - Slam dunk case of WMD in Iraq, the police, the banks. Look at Enron & Northern Rock. Pushing people to take out loans they can't afford to pay back and then seize their homes. How many suicides is this likely to contribute too as well as years of misery.

Look at Dick Chaneys private company profiteering from the war and deaths in Iraq and tell me there isn't a conflict of interest.

When the US troops come back they don't even get medical cover. Those who come back physically fit are mentally disturbed and sooner or later end up killing people.

Those who evade first to killers turn up in vegitative state due to all the experimental drugs they have had tested on them by the Pentagon and US health departments.

I may sound like Victor Mildrew but amazing how I didn't see all this before when I was younger... :mad:

There we are :D Older and wiser
 
watch
I think we all need to watch the video again.

Yeah, I worry about this stuff night and day. ..Because ultimately I don't fit into there game plan. I don't need to pay my taxes, I don't need a drivers licence, medical coverage, there police protection

They don't make money off me, so they have no reason for me.

After conquering the last frontier, conquering all wild beasts. The last thing to lock down will be the free man and I believe I am one of the last.

I'll die to be free. And they want robots.



Yeah, I think about this stuff. I take it to the next level and can accept the most unbelieveable scenerio.



DT
:)
 
There we are :D Older and wiser

Thanks Split, it's only a matter of time before senile dementure sets on me and I walk away leaving the UK with half a million pounds of bank loans I forget to pay back... :cheesy:
 
Another thing, I think it was highly irresponsible of you more intelligent members to not comment on my comment about Americans and there gun obssesions.

I know this worked perfectly into your stereotyping americans (me) as primative. ..but this is real psychology that needs to be addressed. I strongly feel americans have a greatly different mindset when it comes to what they want, and what there willing to do for 'it'.

Over look this and you will never understand americans.

In order for there to be global harmany everyone must be equal. Here in america there is a calm because everyone has access to weapons, in other countries there is peace because noone has weapons.

When you have two cultures that interact with one another, it's going to be the one with the primative mind set that is regulating the immediate scene. Yes, you may be ethically correct, but the only thing that matters is what is happening now.

This isn't Germany, this isn't Russia or China. This is a situation that has never been seen before and be don't know what might really happen.

This all gets tied in to the NAU, in order for there to be peace there going to need to get rid of the 'primative' man. The last bastion of man being the 2nd amendment.



They need (want) to control the last free men on earth. They'll say it's to stop America, but in fact it will be to stop the last free man, then they'll start to really tighten the noose on all of mankind.


It's one big trap set. It's a fake terrorist war in order to tighten the final noose on mankind. They want you to hate america and everything it should stand for.

Once you fear 'freedom' you'll have none.




DT
:)

DT, at my age I'm realising that we have been irresponsible about a lot of things. Unfortunately, we haven't seen a lot of those things coming.

I agree with you when you say that what is happening now is the important thing but we should be learning from past history and we aren't.

A recent post blamed the Americans for their treatment of the Red Indians. That is ancient history and the same thing has been happening to all minority peoples since WWII. The Australians and Canadians removed children from their families until recently and yesterday, on Radio 4,I listened to how the UK social services were removing newly born babies from their mothers and putting them into foster care without any legal justification. English people may recall that a couple of decades ago a County Council doctor ordered the removal of children from their parenyts on the grounds that their fathers were sodomising them. A charge that was later found to be untrue.

This is a democratic country!

It is the same thing all over again. A different excuse, but the same thing.

Humanity is not going to change in any appreciable way. The human being is like that.

Split
 
DT, at my age I'm realising that we have been irresponsible about a lot of things. Unfortunately, we haven't seen a lot of those things coming.

I agree with you when you say that what is happening now is the important thing but we should be learning from past history and we aren't.

A recent post blamed the Americans for their treatment of the Red Indians. That is ancient history and the same thing has been happening to all minority peoples since WWII. The Australians and Canadians removed children from their families until recently and yesterday, on Radio 4,I listened to how the UK social services were removing newly born babies from their mothers and putting them into foster care without any legal justification. English people may recall that a couple of decades ago a County Council doctor ordered the removal of children from their parenyts on the grounds that their fathers were sodomising them. A charge that was later found to be untrue.

This is a democratic country!

It is the same thing all over again. A different excuse, but the same thing.

Humanity is not going to change in any appreciable way. The human being is like that.

Split
The day someone takes my baby from me, is the same day that persons dies.
 
DT, at my age I'm realising that we have been irresponsible about a lot of things. Unfortunately, we haven't seen a lot of those things coming.

I agree with you when you say that what is happening now is the important thing but we should be learning from past history and we aren't.

A recent post blamed the Americans for their treatment of the Red Indians. That is ancient history and the same thing has been happening to all minority peoples since WWII. The Australians and Canadians removed children from their families until recently and yesterday, on Radio 4,I listened to how the UK social services were removing newly born babies from their mothers and putting them into foster care without any legal justification. English people may recall that a couple of decades ago a County Council doctor ordered the removal of children from their parenyts on the grounds that their fathers were sodomising them. A charge that was later found to be untrue.

This is a democratic country!

It is the same thing all over again. A different excuse, but the same thing.

Humanity is not going to change in any appreciable way. The human being is like that.

Split
SUPREME COURT RULINGS:

“An illegal arrest is an assault & battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery” State v Robinson 145 ME 77, 72 ATL 260

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary. Plummer v State 136 Ind 306



We still have rights, you just need to know them, then demand them.


DT
:)
 
DT, you can absolutely believe one thing about me:

I do not for a single second believe that Americans are more, or, less, primitive, than absolutely anybody else on this planet.

I have lived in many different parts of this planet of ours, and if I have ever learned one thing, that is that people really are the same at the end of the day, with the same fears and desires that everybody else has too.

Not only are we the same, but we are in the same boat too.

People can and do distinguish between the perpetrators of the current mess, your religious right wing loonies and the NeoCons and their Spokesman-In-Chief, Mr. Bush, and the rest of the American people that have absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand.

RE guns, as I said earlier, gunpowder has very little to do with results, quite to the contrary, the physical law of action = reaction applies in all other areas of RealPolitik and life as well.

Your corrupt Military-Industrial-Complex that your wise President Eisenhower very rightly warned you guys about has raped US society left and right, no other nation hemorrhages more of it's tax payers money into an army that cannot even win a battle in Third World sand boxes like Iraq or Afghanistan, while 45 million of your people do not have health care.

That is a real crime. It's not that you guys could not afford it, it's that you have been conned into believing that the money is more wisely wasted on the army.

In real life however, more bucks have never bought less bang have they.

Never minding that the wars were totally wrong from the outset, but on top of that there is nothing but total failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That is actually nothing to do with the US army though, it's only logical: occupying a country is easy and you don't need anything even remotely resembling the outfit you guys have to achieve that. Staying in an occupied country against the wishes of the citizens is impossible though. Not even the Soviets could achieve that in medieval Afghanistan, even though they pretty much had every atrocity at their disposal to make it work.

Still did not work, did it.

The only army any democratic country needs is one that serves as a sufficient deterrent to monkey business.

And we don't even need much of that.

The US, the EU, China, and some more places on this globe have total immunity from monkey business.

Who would hope to invade us after all ?

Let alone stay ?

The mere idea is a joke.

Nationally, in the US itself, where guns are rampant, you pay the price of personal security at the cost of the highest crime rate of Western societies, at the cost of never knowing if you are the next one to be car jacked or shot.

Actually though it is not the guns, the Swiss have as many guns as you guys do without the commensurate crime rate.

I think the aggression in your society is a result of decades of policies where people have been sold a policy that benefitted the very rich mostly, that left the middle class behind whose incomes have pretty much stayed the same since decades in the face of rising costs, while the very poor in your country have no safety net.

That can and does make aggressive, I believe.

Again, that is not anything specifically American, all people all over the world would react in the same way when faced with certain inequalities.

What is sad though is that the enablers of Bush are the ones on the receiving end of the inequalities, it's the people with lower education, with less life income, the people that go and serve in the army to get an education, that vote Republican. You never saw the Cheneys or Bushes serving in Vietnam, did you.

I think the aggression in US society will stay until your social inequalities are fairly addressed.

Do not get me wrong, I am not in favour of an all out welfare state where there is no incentive any more to do a days work.

A lot of our European countries way overdid that in the past, it's just as easy to get the pendulum swinging too far in either direction.

It is, as always, a question of finding and maintaining the right balance, welfare should exist in every society, but only for those who cannot help themselves, and taxes should be fairest to the "mostest", not the fewest, the state should be as small as it can, but as large as it needs to be to get the job done.

What simply is not true though is the US Republicans arguments running the country in a way that benefits maybe 20% of it's citizens that that is the only way to run a country.

You will not see a wealthier country anywhere in the world than Finland, a country where everybody has free health care, free education, where poverty just simply does not exist, where even the lowest of the low live in very very decent housing, and where still many people managed to get rich as entrepreneurs.

Now, don't get me wrong, this is not a we are cleverer / better / more beautiful than you guys argument, stuff like that is beyond imbecilic.

You are a great nation with a great economy as we are, I just think that the distribution of wealth is currently too lopsided in your part of the world, and that leads to some of the problems we are currently seeing, this is not the main reason behind oil driven Iraq, but still, wars are always a good distraction from national problems after all, aren't they.
 
Markus,

Excellent post. I agree the principal beneficiaries of the Bush administration are those who least need it, but would the Democrats redress the balance? I doubt it.

This was the expectation behind the re-election of Labour following 22 years (?) of Tory rule here in the UK. The wealthy have done OK, those who depend on the State, especially healthcare, education and transport, are worse off. Indeed, not only have Labour failed to improve the overall situation, they have actually made every aspect of life where they have influence worse with their constant tampering.

Political patronage and donors may partly explain US poltical expedience, but not in the UK.

Grant.
 
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To actually believe that the US President is given the power to do whatever he wants and pull the strings, is at best - naive.
Think about it - Ronald Reagan was an actor before President. Do you really think the Military industrial financial complex is actually going to give any President the license to do as they please. Maybe its a case of the President having their strings pulled.
 
To actually believe that the US President is given the power to do whatever he wants and pull the strings, is at best - naive.
Think about it - Ronald Reagan was an actor before President. Do you really think the Military industrial financial complex is actually going to give any President the license to do as they please. Maybe its a case of the President having their strings pulled.

But it's not that simple.

The elections cost literlally $100m +. There are all kinds of TV / Radio stations programs and people, the business community, the banks and vested interests to win over.

Bottom of the pile comes your average Joe citizen.

Problem with Bush and Blair is despite their attrocities and going to war against the wishes of the people they are supposed to be ruling they both got elected based on their war record.

So what does that tell us about our whole system. Do we truly have democracy and free debate? Were 'the people' manipulated for the votes?

Is it really that easy to colour peoples judgements???
 
But it's not that simple.

The elections cost literlally $100m +. There are all kinds of TV / Radio stations programs and people, the business community, the banks and vested interests to win over.

Bottom of the pile comes your average Joe citizen.

Problem with Bush and Blair is despite their attrocities and going to war against the wishes of the people they are supposed to be ruling they both got elected based on their war record.

So what does that tell us about our whole system. Do we truly have democracy and free debate? Were 'the people' manipulated for the votes?

Is it really that easy to colour peoples judgements???

There's another problem, as well. People can't be bothered to vote. It is no good moaning about what these politicians are doing, afterwards, if they did not.

Split
 
But it's not that simple.

The elections cost literlally $100m +. There are all kinds of TV / Radio stations programs and people, the business community, the banks and vested interests to win over.

Bottom of the pile comes your average Joe citizen.

Problem with Bush and Blair is despite their attrocities and going to war against the wishes of the people they are supposed to be ruling they both got elected based on their war record.

So what does that tell us about our whole system. Do we truly have democracy and free debate? Were 'the people' manipulated for the votes?

Is it really that easy to colour peoples judgements???

Two words - ELECTION FRAUD.
 
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Two words - ELECTION FRAUD.

Yep I agree JTrader and Splitlink,

I'm thinking - either join them or leave the country and just don't care...

I became a contractor because I felt they were unfairly rewarded over permanent staff in 1996. Hence, I'm likely to do the same... Join the takers.

Probably then leave the country once I have had my fill... :cheesy:
 
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