Van Tharp

[qwertyuiop1]

A lot of people seem ti have issues on this site about Van Tharp.

I found his book excellent.

WHat are people problems with him?

Also - people mentuion he doesn't trade as a big issue.

I can understand how people may not like to take advice from someone who doesn't tade. (or so I am led to believe from other posts on this site - personally I find it difficult to believe myself)

But - what specifically is the problem with the content of his books?

 

[0007]

A lot of people seem ti have issues on this site about Van Tharp.

I found his book excellent.

WHat are people problems with him?

Also - people mentuion he doesn't trade as a big issue.

I can understand how peopel may not like to take advice from someone who doesn'ty tade.

But - what specifically is the problem with the content of his books?

I've found his books useful though they do all seem to cover similar ground. I certainly appreciated his info on money management / position sizing and other "personal" type issues.

I think some of the feeling against him may be due to him charging quite serious money for his psychological seminars etc - presumably these are useful for some people who have (or maybe think they have) serious psychological problems. I don't see a shrink or undergo regular counselling and consequently save loads of dosh. But plenty do and maybe they benefit from it. Horses for courses and maybe i could be mega-successful if i did some expensive training. Maybe........

He says he doesn't trade because his forte is training people - you have to make your own judgement on that - read his books and if it works for you why worry what the rest think?

I've read loads of trading books and there are very few that haven't given me something, no matter how small - even if it's only "what a load of cr*p - I won't bother with that!" He has his own online forum which i occasionally visit. On it he was taken to task for his theory of "forget entries, if you get risk/money management/ exit right then it will all turn out ok". Apparently his results didn't stack up - don't know what the latest is on that.

Overall, I think his main book "Trade your way to financial freedom" is worth reading and at £16, for any really green starter it will probably save you that in no time. In my opinion trading is all about making your own judgement and this extends to everything connected. Listen to others, but YOU decide. Never forget that in the main, 50% of what you read or hear is rubbish and the remainder is worthy of your attention. The small problem is knowing which is which. The smart guys are those who can suss all this out while they are still young enough to benefit.

 

[qwertyuiop1]

I would agree with what you said there 0007.

In his book 'trade your way to financial freedom' (Incidenatlly - I shoud point out that is the onloy one of his books which i read) - unquestionably he made a lot of very valid points.

One poster referred to this book as a 'laugh a minute'.

THat statement just did not make sense in my opinion.

 

[nine]

TYETFF wasn't a bad book. Actually one I would recommend as a way of getting some of the stuff you need to understand under control although the same material is available more clearly today on the internet for free.

The book isn't nearly funny enough to be a laugh a minute. I don't recall so much as a happy giggle.

The fact that he doesn't trade doesn't put me off. Nor that one of his "I've done well" boys scammed his investors and even took Van to the cleaners. The primary issue with Tharp (other than arrogance and a tendency to take other peoples ideas and then not give credit to them) is that he's always selling the next course. Hes like the forum ... a never ending sales spin.

Same with his question forum (which is hosted amongst a bunch of get rich quick, visualise and its yours forurms). Many of his believers try to answer questions but occasionally the man comes on. With the answer. And the answer is always "you need this course, or this other course" or "if you didn't understand that one then you need some private consulting."

Another example: the book leads to the money management report. More expensive. Lower quality. Better information available on the net ... in fact here. He doesn't really understand maths (at least that's the impression you get if you question him on it).

The other issue is he's trapped in the 1970s with a pseudo-scientific line of NLP rubbish that simply isn't supported by any of the attempts to justify it since Bandler etc created it. It ain't science, it ain't psychology, its something that people use to create a career selling pseudo-science to others. Kind of like astrology vs astronomy. So even the psych material is highly suspect.

But if you want to spend your money with him feel free. Come back and write a review.

Disclaimer: This post is my own personal view and does not necessarily represent those of the management of T2W.

 

[qwertyuiop1]

Ok - as far as I can gather it seems that peope think he's too much of a salesman.

I thought people took issue with teh actual content of his book - which to me the content of his book TYWTFF is very good.
i.e. He gos into all the crtitical areas such as entry signals,stop-loss,position sizing,rosk-reward ratio etc. in a convincing manner.

I felt that was all fair game.

I've no plans to go to any of his courses at all.

 

[shadowninja]

He does give some useful advice which may save you money but the more I think about it the more I realise it is like someone who can't drive giving you advice on how to drive. They may say things like "Watch out for children who aren't looking before crossing the road." or "Keep an eye on your speed to avoid getting caught by a gatso." but they really have no place in commenting on what is actually safe* or skillful driving, or give good advice on how to deal with a skid on a corner in the wet.

*-anyone who says speed kills clearly demonstrates a lack of driving experience, for instance.

 

[0007]

Van Tharp's weakness (apart from being a pusher of courses - but I don't hold that against him) is that he is not a practitioner. Skills are usually taught by people who have either done it or are still doing it with some degree of success or otherwise. Pilots / brain surgeons / lawyers / engineers (proper ones i mean) spring to mind. Of course, some of these are bad teachers (those who can do; those who can't teach........) but at least they have done it.

I think I'd have a major credibility problem teaching something I'd never done; and for my own satisfaction I'd only want to teach something that I'd mastered my self. One of the most embarrassing things in the world is a bunch of students who know their teacher has no credibility.

 

[qwertyuiop1]

Van Tharp's weakness (apart from being a pusher of courses - but I don't hold that against him) is that he is not a practitioner. Skills are usually taught by people who have either done it or are still doing it with some degree of success or otherwise. Pilots / brain surgeons / lawyers / engineers (proper ones i mean) spring to mind. Of course, some of these are bad teachers (those who can do; those who can't teach........) but at least they have done it.

I think I'd have a major credibility problem teaching something I'd never done; and for my own satisfaction I'd only want to teach something that I'd mastered my self. One of the most embarrassing things in the world is a bunch of students who know their teacher has no credibility.

Fair point.

DOes he give reasons as to why he doesn't trade?

 

[Splitlink]

A lot of people seem ti have issues on this site about Van Tharp.

I found his book excellent.

WHat are people problems with him?

Also - people mentuion he doesn't trade as a big issue.

I can understand how people may not like to take advice from someone who doesn't tade. (or so I am led to believe from other posts on this site - personally I find it difficult to believe myself)

But - what specifically is the problem with the content of his books?

Has he ever traded? Because, if he hasn't, he has no experience of what it is like.

If he has traded, then he has given it up for something that is more profitable,
or, because he likes teaching more.

I think that it is quite easy to tell people how to trade when one is sitting back and not getting involved in the emotional experience of doing it.

The shorter the timeframe that one trades, the more likely it is that one will react by reflex. Markets do not move as one always plans.

"Am I going to miss the move"?, one asks oneself. CLICK. It's done before you know it.

"Should I have made that move" ? The first nasty move that the market makes and CLICK!. You're out. No thinking, just pure reflex , but you are nursing a loss.

You may be pleased because you were decisive and the loss could have been worse.

There are lots of posters on these boards who are wondering why they are not making money. The reason is that emotions are taking control of their actions.

Someone who does not trade cannot teach how to do it. A soldier cannot be taught how to kill someone when he is in an ambush, i.e. short term trading. He can, perhaps, be taught to do it as a sniper, or as a gunner, i.e. long term trading.

 

[shadowninja]

I suppose the counter arguement is that to be a marriage guidance counsellor should one have had a perfect marriage and therefore only start such a career when your spouse has died, thus proving you were married for life? Or is the pain of divorce necessary? What if you have never dated?

 

[black bear]

I can tell you in great detail what it feels like to attempt to pot match ball when the result means everything to you and emotions are present.

I can explain how when I have managed to pot it and close out I achieved it,or think I achieved it.

I can tell you a good routine to go through on the run up to an event, I can tell you when you should push in a frame and match and when you should hang back a bit.

I cannot pot the bl....dy ball for you, no one can

Its up to you its your war if thats what it becomes, and for many it is a war.

Choose where you fight it, you can control that

 

[0007]

I suppose the counter arguement is that to be a marriage guidance counsellor should one have had a perfect marriage and therefore only start such a career when your spouse has died, thus proving you were married for life? Or is the pain of divorce necessary? What if you have never dated?

Some of the best instructors / teachers I've known weren't necessarily the best practitioners. If they've experienced difficulty (as opposed to complete inability) themselves they are so much better placed to understand the student when he encounters problems. We all know about the brilliant academic with complete mastery of his field...... who couldn't teach his way out of a paper bag.

If Van T has traded at some time (and surely he must have?) it could be that he is very well placed to observe where others are going wrong and offer corrective advice. I remember years ago that BA (or whatever they were called in those days) had an accident where the 2 pilots flying the aircraft basically got maxed out and lost the overall plot. The remedy was to introduce a 3rd pilot whose job was not to fly or operate any systems, but just to monitor the big picture and keep operations on the rails ("overwatch" in current political yukspeak ?). Could this be similar to the idea of a trading mentor when the tyro trader has reached the stage when ready to fly (trade) solo?

 

[Crap Buddist]

The remedy was to introduce a 3rd pilot whose job was not to fly or operate any systems, but just to monitor the big picture and keep operations on the rails ("overwatch" in current political yukspeak ?). Could this be similar to the idea of a trading mentor when the tyro trader has reached the stage when ready to fly (trade) solo?

From what I have read its like (knowing what I know now) the overwatch also has no clue as to the bigger picture. No Psychology trading experts seems to be able to perceive and communicate to the external observer the detailed behaviour behind the price move.

They seem more focused on getting the trader to be o.k. with trading a coin flip. Getting them to accept the professionalism of a statistical (as opposed to knowledgeable) approach to trading. They have to follow this path because i can only assume they lack the perception of the picture themselves.

This is further backed up and supported with the fact that they seem not to delve,communicate or publish the blunt psyche of the speculative market.

 

[0007]

From what I have read its like (knowing what I know now) the overwatch also has no clue as to the bigger picture. No Psychology trading experts seems to be able to perceive and communicate to the external observer the detailed behaviour behind the price move.

They seem more focused on getting the trader to be o.k. with trading a coin flip. Getting them to accept the professionalism of a statistical (as opposed to knowledgeable) approach to trading. They have to follow this path because i can only assume they lack the perception of the picture themselves.

This is further backed up and supported with the fact that they seem not to delve,communicate or publish the blunt psyche of the speculative market.

Fair comment. I suppose we should never forget that within the trading world "psychological training" is a complete (and some would say parasitical) industry in itself.