Useful things I've found on the Net.

[BSD]

I understand what you mean travis.

Now, I'm no statistician either, but I'd say their conclusion is mainly an inferred implicit deduction from the fact that the participating brokers were able to confirm that their clients were not adapting their non-profitable behaviour in a way that would let them turn net profitable.

And as repeating non-productive behaviour in exactly the same way over and over while irrationaly hoping for different outcomes clearly doesn't make any sense, they ascribed a different motivation that would explain their destructive actions.

Kinda what I'd say when I talk to my neighbour who goes to the gym everyday but is wondering why she isn't really losing the amount of weight she would like to, not fat, but not where she says she wants to be either, I'd say her main objective is not losing weight, but assuaging her guilt by going to the gym so she can go to Starbucks later and splurge on a muffin because yo she's been working out right.

My cheeky assumption here isn't confirmable through hard stats either, but a safe enough bet I'd say.

 

[Yamato]

Yes, I get your point and I agree, about exercise. Many times people do things for reasons other than what they say (and think, in good faith). And many times the real reason is entertainment. They watch movies, but not for the sake of watching art. You find out when you ask people their favorite movie: usually they don't know. When they do, they don't even remember the title, actors, director. Or for example, why do we help people? In my case, I realized that I help people because I am bored, because I like to talk, because I like to explain things out loud, but not at all because I am good and I am generous. As soon as they ask me to do something that I find unpleasant but that would help them, I decline. So no point in pretending with myself that I help people because I am "good".

By the way, earlier I was talking about all the assumptions they were making in the second part of your quote (not using stoplosses, not worrying about gain but about not missing a move...). I think the first half can be inferred from the data they have. But how on earth would they know the motivations, and what leads to the losses of traders. They would certainly need polls (the broker doesn't know the motivations either), and then they'd need to mix such polls with differently gathered data, making the whole thing unreliable.

But actually forget about my observations, because I am not serious enough to even have gone to your source (link) and checked authors and sources and data. So I can't discredit it without even doing any research. So it was just the rough estimate of a non-informed and reader. But as a rough estimate, I would say whoever writes knows a lot about trading, and he sounds like he already had the answer before gathering the data.

Anyway, why am I writing here? Not because I want to figure out things scientifically, like when discrediting the above study. I am here, and writing here, because I like to explain what I think out loud and discuss things with others.

Why do I talk about Plato and Socrates and other philosophers, not because I care about what they think. Indeed I never even read any books by or on them or other philosophers. Once again, I do it for entertainment, because I enjoy reasoning out loud, and debating, and philosophical discussions give me the right people and environment to talk how and about what I enjoy. So the real reason at the end is not "good" or "science" but, at least in my case, entertainment. I would quit any pursuit or scientific endeavour as soon as it got tiring.

 

[Yamato]

The reason I kept trading discretionary despite being unable to make money, is that the more I was bored and inactive, the more I looked for fun and thrill from trading, whereas I should have looked elsewhere. I remember reading other people saying this, but I never thought it applied to me. Today, after not trading for a few days, I felt bored. And I realize I feel inactive, and that trading made me feel alive. Having an empty life is dangerous. I kept it empty to be able to do what I needed to do, but now that I don't need the free time any more, it's dangerous (for trading, I mean). Free time is great, but only to a point.

 

[BSD]

Yup, a lot of that makes sense.

I also agree with the free time.

One of the most important things in trading is learning when to stay, and having the discipline to do that.

Quite two seperate things !

If more people could learn that, trade only when markets are making strong smooth moves, and stay away from the chop, way more people would make money, would be net profitable.

 

[Yamato]

What you wrote reminded me what Jesse Livermore wrote:

And right here let me say one thing: After spending many years in Wall Street and after
making and losing millions of dollars I want to tell you this: It never was my thinking
that made the big money for me. It always was my sitting. Got that? My sitting tight! It
is no trick at all to be right on the market. You always find lots of early bulls in bull
markets and early bears in bear markets. I've known many men who were right at
exactly the right time, and began buying or selling stocks when prices were at the very
level which should show the greatest profit. And their experience invariably matched
mine that is, they made no real money out of it. Men who can both be right and sit tight
are uncommon.

In my opinion, the best answer to all the psychological difficulties of trading is automated trading. I couldn't fix my psychological problems in twelve years, and kept losing money for 12 years with discretionary trading. But my automated trading has been making money from the start (one and a half year ago). Once having created a profitable automated system, the only psychological problem to overcome for me was:
1) realize I can't make money with discretionary (proven fact in 12 years of constant losing)
2) I can't second guess my automated system and improve its results (overall, it's been proven in this past year and a half)
3) Let my automated system run, without interfering, and accepting that it trades better than the person who created it (it keeps surprising me, but it is true - this was ultimately shown to me by forward tests, which speak very clearly and irrefutably)

 

[BSD]

Sounds good.

Glad you turned the corner and are net profitable now.

 

[Yamato]

Thank you. Well, net profitable as long as I stay away from discretionary trading. That is why I am writing so much here and everywhere. I still haven't found an alternative hobby, other than trading. So I just write all over the web. For now. Of course also because I am at work during the day, and have to stay in the city. If ever quit, then I will move out and do other things, like swimming. But now I'm in the city.

Here's another thing I just wrote on ET (sorry for flooding this forum with my posts):
Forums - Impulsive trades

Quote from sheepsucker:

Still thinking more about this.

Its like I have available 1 hour worth of chart-staring life per day. More than that and I start losing control.

One scenario is that I get so fixated on the current situation that I dont think ahead and then something unexpected happens and I have an impulsive reaction.

I use the chart I posted above and then a smaller 1-3min chart with vol plotted. One scenario is that this sentence nailed it.


This stuff does not happen on sim. I think I will now have to focus on working around this issue by staying away from the chart and watching out the window and maybe some day I'll understand what is going on.

It doesn't happen on sim? I couldn't even trade on the simulator because trading was boring and seemed pointless. Let me tell you - everything you are describing matches my experience 100%. The thing you said about getting hypnotized by staring at the chart for too long, and everything else.

After trying in vain for 12 years, the only solution I found is automated trading. But even after implementing it, I cannot let myself stare at charts, nor at quotes. If I do, after a few minutes, I'll start making trades again, and lose as a consequence. For a few months I've been losing with discretionary trading what I was making with automated trading.

The only solution therefore is to stay away from the computer, even though making money without doing anything at all makes me feel guilty.

Unless you belong to that 1% or so of population who can keep calm and rational in situations where you playing with your life and future, like in trading, day trading will drive you insane. No one will go crazy, only because you'll lose all your money much sooner.

The reason there's plenty of discretionary traders making money here and giving you advice is because the only ones who are sticking around are the ones who made it and who belong to that 1%. Instead, I belong to that majority of unprofitable discretionary traders, who are not here anymore, because they all quit. The only reason I am still here is that I also do automated trading, and that it works. But as a discretionary trader it is as if I quit. You see, the others also quit, but they didn't have the time/energy to implement automated trading. As a consequence, all you see here is successful discretionary traders, despite the fact that they belong to 1% of all traders (it's just a figure I made up, of course, but they're definitely a small minority).

 

[BSD]

And here's a gem from a rock'n'roller over at forex factory, Strat.



"After a few fax exchanges, he sent a handwritten fax saying something like “trading is easy, you don’t need nuthin fancy (he was a good old Texas boy) just buy when it’s going up and sell when it’s going down, that’s all there is to it”.

Dr. Joe used to work for NASA as a nuclear physicist on the Space Program and was a Professor, PhD with just about every physics and maths qualifications there are or you could think of. He got fed up of the bureaucracy and politics at NASA and as a part time investor in stocks , decided to go full time as, in his own words, “the price cycles are just some sort of fancy sine waves with decay and acceleration distorting them and should be real easy to plot and forecast.”


...His first action was to throw out all his indicators, forecasts and technical analysis. He told me that there is no analysis, indicator or other program now or in the future, that can analyse or predict human behaviour and specifically, human emotions. He had seen for himself that there was nothing technical or logical in how the floor traders (now better known as Market Movers) traded and therefore any analysis or thinking from “off the floor” was an absolute waste of time.

From this came his very simple method:

Buy when it goes up and sell when it goes down.

He went on to make $millions doing this and I subsequently learned he passed away a very rich and contented man knowing that he had beaten the “whores” at their own game.

I learned all this in a few telephone conversations with him but he lost his patience with me when I still questioned his method. He wouldn’t answer my calls so I reverted back to faxes. Again, I can’t remember it word for word but I sent a simple fax saying:

“How do you know when to stop buying?”

On the same fax was his handwritten reply, “When it stops going up.”

So I wrote on it, “How do you know when it stops going up?”

His handwritten reply, “When it starts going down.”

So I wrote on it, “How do you know when it stops going up and starts going down?”

His handwritten reply, “When people start selling.”

After going round like this in riddles, I pleaded with him to “just give it to me straight”.

He sent a fax saying this would be his last communication with me and that if I didn’t understand how to buy when it goes up and sell when it goes down, I had no business trading.

His final paragraph was one which I ignored, like everything else he told me, until a couple of years ago when I realized what a dumb, stupid, arrogant, stubborn idiot I had been:

He said I would only be wrong twice using his simple method:

“Once when you buy at the top and once when you sell at the bottom.”

I just ignored this as a smart – ass answer but still tried to do what he said. Unfortunately, and as Sod’s law dictates, I tried to do it in a consolidation and lost on every trade which had me buying when I should have been selling etc.

I tried and lost again and then eventually lost my way in the quest for the Holy Grail in Indicator Land.

Now, with all my experience and thousands of lost $ behind me, the light came on!

My understanding of what he was telling me is this:

Buy when prices are moving up. Buy each retrace/dip. Keep buying until the last retrace becomes a trend change which is the one trade you lose on.

Sell when prices are moving down. Sell each retrace/rally. Keep selling until the last retrace becomes a trend change which is the second trade you lose on.

Thank you, Dr. Joe"

Just scrolling through here nine and found this absolute gem.

Sums up what I do in a nutshell...

Identify trend, wait for pullback, ride trend until it bends, exit.

Repeat.

I also totally agree with Joe that trading is simple and not rocket science, that it is impossible to predict what will happen next, but also totally unnecessary in order to make money, and that the best way to trade is buying retracements because they get you some of the best risk / reward ratios possible out there.

Of course none of this is new, people were talking about buying pullbacks in Jesse Livermores times already, buying dips, selling rips they called that then.

Another oldtimer is a guy who posted on one of the first US trading boards under the name of Oleman who had the exact same insights as Dr. Joe:

This is the short version:

Technical Analysis Wizards Den: trading tactics, tutorials and strategies for day trading and short-term trading using technical analysis.

If someone really wants to go digging here is a best-of list of his postings on that board:

"If you buy every correction in a bull market, you'll only be wrong once--the top. If you sell every rally in a bull market, you'll only be wrong once--the bottom.

...The "Holy Grail" is the holy grail. Its all you need. It was not invented or discovered by LC and/or LBR, and they dont do a real good job in explaining it. If you would devote 100% of yur time to discovering the best way(s) to enter during pullbacks in a trend, you would be way ahead of the game. Why would you want anything else? If you enter during every counter-trend pullback, you are wrong only once during each trend. Its truly the "Key to the mint".
Collected Wisdom of "oleman"

Trading isn't rocket science, the only 2 ways you can make money through directional trading are by trend trading, buy high and sell higher which has you buying breakouts, or buy low and sell high, where you're buying retracements.

The only other way to make money trading apart from following trends is trading reversions to the mean, picking tops or bottoms.

Can't say one is better than the other, but by nature I'm a trend follower, I believe in following the path of least resistance, making like water and not fighting what is, so trend following suits me, particularly the pullback version, and there definitely isn't anything complicated about that.

Add in staying out of chop and you're set.

Great thread nine !

 

[Yamato]

As far as my experience goes, it takes a great mental balance to do discretionary trading and be profitable, even when you have understood what you should do. I have done plenty of back-tests and my automated trading is profitable as a consequence, and I know what works, but, in twelve years I still have not managed to learn how to implement such statistics manually, and how to wait for the right time to enter, and to exit. So, Markus, you must have a great balance (emotional and financial). Congratulations.

 

[BSD]

Hi Travis from across the big pond,



well actually what I do is just not take the individual trade seriously, I view it as extremely inconsequential in the big scheme of things, as just one rather irrelevant drop in an ocean of potential future trades throughout my life time.

Also, I'm risking no more than a quarter or up to max of one percent of my equity per trade, so I can mess up quite a lot without bad things happening.

What helped a lot is my belief in Paretos Rule, I understand that on average ca 20% of my trades will account for 80% of my profits, so that makes things easier also, to accept losing trades, scratches, small wins, before your equity curve makes new highs again from a few big hitters.

But probably most importantly, and most won't agree with this haha, I totally believe that we are masters of our own destiny, so if I want something to work, I set myself objectives, and then let go of fear of failure and also expectation of realization, I just know that what I set in motion will happen - what you are effectively doing with your mechanical system - good things will happen, results will materialize.

Hey, I don't have that yin and yang thingy next to my name for no reason.



Not saying it's always that easy as it sounds now, don't get me wrong, but this is what I strive for.


Finally, I am also rather mechanical tho, I honestly can't say which of my setups will or wont work. All it takes is George Soros entering a big trade against my direction, and there I go flying out with my stop loss hit, so all I know is that during times of the day when you have good volume and I see a setup I need to enter.

OK, take profits are rather visual, but on teh whole also based on mechanical rules.

Good trading.

 

[Yamato]

Thank you. You, too- good trading.

I understand what you say, and it all makes perfect sense (but only as long as I am not in a trade, because then my reasoning is overcome by my emotions). Your confidence surely helps your discretionary trading. Some of us are more gifted than others. I think I have way too many problems in my way in order to accomplish what you have. For once I have to admit my limits.

I began discretionary trading in 1997, so it's been 12 years. I would say that I finally quit a few weeks ago. For 12 years every year I had a negative balance. Every month was also a negative balance, and close to blowing out my account about every two months. So I definitely tried and definitely I am not gifted as far as discretionary trading. On the other hand, my automated trading started in 2008. In one year and a half I would say that every month has been profitable, often even doubling. This year, almost everything I've made with automated trading, I still managed to lose it with discretionary trading - it's been silly and I can't ever allow myself to repeat it. But most of all, I advise anyone trying discretionary trading, to paper trade until they find some method that is consistently profitable.

With my results of the past 12 years, I think everyone will agree that my best choice is to quit discretionary trading altogether, and fully dedicate myself to automated trading. I could go on for hours describing the advantages of one versus the other. Practically everything is better except these few deficiencies:

1) It's not exciting and it's boring
2) You need some infrastructure (ups, fixed and stable connection)
3) You need years of work to figure out good systems and good money management (but this won't prevent you from making money from the start, only maybe you will lose it, because of the drawdown - if you are using excessive leverage)

Also, even though it seems you can just let it run and not worry about it, it still takes some psychological work to actually let yourself trust it, to find out you can trust it, and to let it run unattended and without interfering with it. For the first year, I've kept intertefering with its choices. Only after keeping forward-testing records, I've realized I was hurting profit more than helping.

Overall, about my career as a trader, I would say that I have proven to be a very very slow learner and at the same time a very persistent learner. I kept improving but very slowly, and I finally achieved what others (mostly programmers) may have achieved in less than a year. Maybe I was slow not only because of not being intelligent, but because of thinking I was intelligent, and lack of modesty. Also, laziness has slowed me down. Laziness probably stops ordinary people from thinking at all that they can build an automated trading system. In my case, half ordinary and half extra-ordinary, my laziness had made get to the final destination in 12 years, when all the other racers had either quit years before, or finished their own race (profitably) years before. I think there must be very few people who kept trying, after having 11 straight years of losses.

The interesting thing is that for the first 11 years I didn't have any doubts in my mind that by the end of the year I would have become a millionaire, and that's what kept me going but maybe that's why I kept on losing, because I was always trying to double my investment every month, and wasn't happy with making less than 100% a month, and even when it happened, I tried to top that. Ultimately, never being content could be what keeps me from being profitable at discretionary trading. Yet I can't help it - I am an overachiever who ruins everything by pushing himself too hard (at least in trading, I am).

But the trick of automated trading is that no matter how much I wish the system to trade and to make money, it just won't trade unless it sees an opportunity that has back-testing and statistics on its side. The only big risk I have to be careful about is not to push my system too much in terms of money management. In other words, there is a temptation of reinvesting all capital at all times, and this is not possible if you don't have a system with a very small drawdown (of course, no problem if your system won 100% of the time), because when you are using futures, if you get 10 straight losers, you could blow out your account, no matter how big it is.

 

[BSD]

Hi mate don't get me wrong,

if I had half the brain for automated trading I'd go for that in a jiffy !

No doubts about that at all.

I'm absolutely useless as a programmer tho, my brother got all those skills, with zero left over for me I'm afraid.

Also I really do not consider myself particularly gifted or anything as a trader.

All I did was go identify who is making it and who isn't and what the difference between those groups is, tried to understand what the truly success relevant factors are outside of all the irrelevant noise and self-important posturing from all the charlatans that inhabit this world.

From that final potpourri of real possibilities I just picked up various odds and ends here and there and synthesized them into a style that appeals to my visual skills that are far above and beyond my mathematical / logical ones.

I see that a chart and any chart always moves in a yin and yang way, moves in cycles, and that as long as you wait for pullbacks to trends even sideways markets won't kill you.

I also accept totally that losing is part and parcel of being a trader, so I'm not too worried about losses or even losses in a row, and I learned the discipline to do what you do, only go for real setups as per my rules, not overtrade out of boredom, ensure that I'll be around next year by keeping my risk relatively tight vs average rewards, and I just try to not overestimate what I can do in the short term, I just try and let probability and long term compounding take care of end results for me.

I mean 10% / month will get you wherever you want to go, so shoot for that, that's doable as long as we aren't trading tens or hundreds of millions haha, and let your ultimate objectives that you are trying to achieve short term now by risking too much handle themselves and materialse long term instead.

From you're pic you're still young, you've got the time.

But add up 10% month over time on a compounding basis and you'll see that even if it's only 5% / month you'll be making great money in no time at all.

Just stay away from discretionary stuff and you'll be fine.

Crikey just hearing a really stupid song on the radio in the background and there goes my Zen like serenity overboard straight away, so will probably put on a stupid trade in a bit haha.

 

[Yamato]

Your detailed description of what you do is certainly useful for those of us who can keep a good overall balance. They can get there. By nature, or rather because of how I was raised and lived my life, I have an irresistible tendency and attraction to exceeding and excesses. Whatever I do, I'll do it in an exaggerated way. Like this thread, I could keep it going forever. I am not going to get tired. Don't expect me to ever do anything moderate. I've always felt special, and that no rules applied to me. I can't help it. I can't do anything normal, regular. Normal is almost an insult to me.

My pic is not me, but it's travis bickle, the protagonist of Taxi Driver, my favorite movie. He's someone I identify with, and he's also a person of excesses.

Thanks for your great advice. This is a great little forum - two or three people discussing peacefully, as much as they like, and whenever they like it.

I know about compounding. I've thought about that as well.

Yeah, your talk about serenity and the bad song, I understand. My serenity is such a rare event that it explains why I can't trade. I am almost always frustrated.

 

[BSD]

Haha omg I had another blonde moment of course thats Robert di Niro !!!

LOL !

Jesus sometimes I just don't know !!!

But yup, good chatting with you too, one of the best forums this imo.

Fun and games and good info like here now being exchanged.

Btw, talking about persevering like you were and that having played a big part in your finally making it, you probably know this right ?

Talent Is Overrated: What Really Separates World-Class Performers from Everybody Else

Biggest thing is practise practise practise. And of course surviving and holding on tight until your practise translates into success one day.

Also, in a similar vein to what we're talking about trading being simple if not easy, I don't think much of people teaching others trading for money, I mean whats the point basically.

But this guy here at least is the real deal, a guy who is a member at the CME, and had his last years results audited, made 215% on his equity, around 1.6 millions US$.

Nothing to sniff at at all by anybodys standards right.

Way he trades is basically like what I've been putting up here, pullbacks to trend, and he is open about his setups on his blog and elsewhere too, no secrets there cause he realises there aren't any and doesn't pretend otherwise.

Here is what one of the guys trading with him had to say about the experience, longer post in total, just my highlight here:

"Like the first line in “7 Habits of Highly Successful People” by Stephen Covey which simply states “Life is Difficult”. Covey goes on to say that the sooner we recognize and accept this, the sooner we are able to deal with things much more effectively. This is true for trading as well. After 12 days in the Jelly Tank I can tell you that there are no magic set-ups, no Don Miller secrets that have not been revealed in the blog, and no easy profits (though, there have been profits!). However, 21 people signed up for this effort and 21 people remain. We could have left during the first week and gotten most of our money back. Nobody did."

In a spot of hubris he is calling his learnlings, his pupils, Jellies, joke on teh Turtles, even though that is of course totally apples and oranges in every respect, but still, respect the guy because he must be one of no more than a handful of teaching traders out there walking the talk, having proof of success, and the insight of the guy who wrote that up there is also spot on.

Interesting also, on average those "Jellies" are 40 years old, like me, Brett Steenbarger was also saying that newbies to trading areN't the 20 sthg old they were 20 years ago.

 

[Yamato]

I am still reading through your post, but I have to interrupt and I will edit once I get home from work. For now I got to where you tell me about the book. I will list two links for reading something about the book, other than by buying it:
Talent Is Overrated: What really separates world-class performers from everybody else Andrew Barden’s Small Business Marketing and Sales Strategies
A Skimmer's Guide to the Latest Business Books: Talent Is Overrated: What Really Separates World-Class Performers from Everybody Else - business books - book review

I will add more later.

 

[BSD]

Ja, just read them, great summaries.

Another element I'd like to add as a key factor to outstanding success on top of those principles you found summarized in those articles, is to treat life like a game, take it seriously enough, but play it lightly !

If you want to achieve something and approach that all strung up from fear of failure you won't be too likely to attract success in no matter what it is you want to achieve.

Instead approach your objectives with a firm belief in outcome - which is totally different than firm belief in process or method etc when starting out - approach your tasks well prepared after you found out what is success relevant but then without a care in the world otherwise, have fun, laugh, be yourself without the weight of the world on your shoulders, and chances of success are far higher, will demand far less energy than fighting and clawing your way to your objectives.

Thats what you have with your mechanical trading, thats what does that for you, offering you a path where you can relax and have confidence in outcome.

 

[Yamato]

Yeah, I read it. And it all makes sense once again. In summary, you have to work hard. I would go as far as saying that someone who is not gifted but works hard, will achieve more than someone who is gifted but doesn't work hard. I am not saying that's what the book says, but that's how I interpret it.

Having said this, despite my quality of persevering, I have been a bit stupid and lazy, and I could have achieved it in half the time it took me - about 12 years and counting, because I still cannot say I am sure I won't resume discretionary trading and blow away the winnings again. So far I've been sober for just a few weeks. I don't mean to insult all discretionary traders by comparing them to drunks, but in my specific case trading discretionary is like doing drugs.

 

[BSD]

Hi Travis,

I think to a large extent our expectations and beliefs drive our reality.

Hard work has really never been anything I associate with success, to me it's more about figuring out what works, and then just doing it.

I honestly believe that not much about life outside of rocket science is particularly complicated, least of all trading.

Not to say that it is always easy, but figuring out the success relevant ingredients to get from A to B is generally simple enough, even if the journey may sometimes be rocky.

My guess would be that the reason you didn't make it as a discretionary trader is not because you didn't work hard enough.

It's because it simply didn't fit your personality.

And, second of all, because you were overestimating what you can do short term, while underestimating what is possible long term, you were shooting for 100% / month with a style that didn't suit you.

Not really the best recipe for making it ?

What I try and do when at a crossroads, or thinking, should I, shouldn't I ?

I let my intuition decide, I envision the respective scenarios and go for the one that feels best.

I am sure that if you feel and see yourself achieving your trading objectives with your automated trading, that that will simply feel far better than if you imagine yourself getting there through discretionary trading.

So next time the urge overcomes you again to put on a trade outside of your mechanical system remember the negative feelings that conjured up for you and just let the urge pass away.

 

[Yamato]

Hi Travis,

I think to a large extent our expectations and beliefs drive our reality.

Hard work has really never been anything I associate with success, to me it's more about figuring out what works, and then just doing it.

I honestly believe that not much about life outside of rocket science is particularly complicated, least of all trading.

Not to say that it is always easy, but figuring out the success relevant ingredients to get from A to B is generally simple enough, even if the journey may sometimes be rocky.

My guess would be that the reason you didn't make it as a discretionary trader is not because you didn't work hard enough.

It's because it simply didn't fit your personality.

And, second of all, because you were overestimating what you can do short term, while underestimating what is possible long term, you were shooting for 100% / month with a style that didn't suit you.

Not really the best recipe for making it ?

What I try and do when at a crossroads, or thinking, should I, shouldn't I ?

I let my intuition decide, I envision the respective scenarios and go for the one that feels best.

I am sure that if you feel and see yourself achieving your trading objectives with your automated trading, that that will simply feel far better than if you imagine yourself getting there through discretionary trading.

So next time the urge overcomes you again to put on a trade outside of your mechanical system remember the negative feelings that conjured up for you and just let the urge pass away.

Yes, I have done that a few times already. It's safer if I keep such urges away by not even getting near the computer during trading hours.

Yesterday, for example, I looked a trade decided of course by my system, and I thought the profit was too good to last, so I closed it early. Not the biggest mistake I could made, because closing a trade early is not a full discretionary trade, but I did break my rule again. At the end of the day that same trade more than doubled the gain that I had seized.

So I guess I have to really stay away from even looking at how well my system is doing. That's what I was doing at the start, when my discretionary mistakes were fresh, but as they get further away, I keep on getting nearer to the quotes, and the closer I get to them, the bigger is the risk of acting. We'll see in the next few weeks.

 

[BSD]

Yes, I have done that a few times already. It's safer if I keep such urges away by not even getting near the computer during trading hours.

Yesterday, for example, I looked a trade decided of course by my system, and I thought the profit was too good to last, so I closed it early. Not the biggest mistake I could made, because closing a trade early is not a full discretionary trade, but I did break my rule again. At the end of the day that same trade more than doubled the gain that I had seized.

So I guess I have to really stay away from even looking at how well my system is doing. That's what I was doing at the start, when my discretionary mistakes were fresh, but as they get further away, I keep on getting nearer to the quotes, and the closer I get to them, the bigger is the risk of acting. We'll see in the next few weeks.

I totally agree,just stay away, and let your system do it's thing that all your testing has shown it will do over time if left to it's own devices !

Best of luck mate !!!