Ukraine invasion

This is quite a fundamental piece of news imo and perhaps the most important.

Ukraine or more like the NATO finally abondons plans to expand its aggressive dogs of war machine into Ukraine.


This is probably the single most important piece of news and reason for the start of this war.

Aggressive so called defensive NATO alliance sees some sense. Finally!!!
Security guarantees depend on reliable guarantors.😉
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Security guarantees depend on reliable guarantors.😉
View attachment 345121

US and UK were accomplices in the Genocide of Palestinians by the Israelis.

US attacking Venezuellan boats without any evidence in international waters.

These violiations of international laws are just two recent major events.

Number of UN decisions that are simply ignored are vetoed by the US is countless. Guantanamo Bay really takes the biscuit where there are no rules for the cowboys to do what ever shit they have done and do there. You talk about violations? Really. I hope you are enjoying having a laugh???

Assurances given to Gorbachev against NATO expansion has also been a total violation of broken promises and aggrements.

This is the problem with these kinds of POV's coming from the West. It is soooo one sided totally ignored any other World Views. Hence, why we have wars.

What can't be agreed over the table is dealt with pouring blood in the battle field.

I guess the big question is why Ukraine has now decided to rule out joining NATO?

Why have Europe and the US accepted this point of fact?

What were they thinking when over a number of years Russian diplomacy told the West this was their red-line.

Crimea and Sivastapol has always been Russian and to think Russia will hand over it's main naval port to Ukraine and the West is unthinkable, unimaginable. Third World War III is more likely than Crimea being handed to Ukraine and the West. Most reasonable and informed bodies know this. Joe public and mindless sheep following BBC probably don't care, know or give two hoots other than listening to noise coming out of the TV.

Mark Rutte is an absolute nutter calling for NATO soldiers to be placed in Ukraine to die fightin Russia when there is no point in this war in the first place.

I would ask Mark Rutte to go to the front line and stand by his words. However, when his skin and blood is on the line I'm sure he'll turn tail coat. I've heard him on TV and wonder in amazement how a SHIT HEAD like that can hold such a position. I guess his status is less than a hooker paid to deliver words, where his ass is not on the line, requesting other people go to die for some stupid NATO expansion.

HOW can NATO be a defensive allience when it pre-empts, starts and causes the very wars it is supposed to defend agains. I appeal to good common deceny and sense of each person to think about this instead of being so eager to wage war for daft reasons.

Stupid war, stupid NATO expansion to defend us against Russia who has opened greatly and invested in Europe, providing us with Energy, billionaires and profitable trade.

US and UK have started and been involved in many more wars than Russia and braking international agreements and violations.

Get a sense of some balance before posting regurgitated BBC daft quotes.
 
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Assurances given to Gorbachev against NATO expansion has also been a total violation of broken promises and aggrements.

...

US and UK have started and been involved in many more wars than Russia and braking international agreements and violations. Have some balance.
Yes, there are other unreliable guarantors. I was just pointing out the one in that region that's constantly threatening its neighbors.

FYI, Gorbachev didn't approve of NATO expansion, but he changed his story when he was no longer a politician.
In 2014, the former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev marked the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall by noting in an interview that that Nato’s enlargement “was not discussed at all” at the time:

Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either.
 
This is quite a fundamental piece of news imo and perhaps the most important.

Ukraine or more like the NATO finally abondons plans to expand its aggressive dogs of war machine into Ukraine.


This is probably the single most important piece of news and reason for the start of this war.

Aggressive so called defensive NATO alliance sees some sense. Finally!!!
I'm sorry to say I don't share your optimism, At'. I hope I'm wrong but, to me, this sounds like NATO through the back door which, needless to say, Russia won't agree to. If there's a buffer zone dividing whatever remains of Ukraine to the West and Russian occupied territory to the east, the only peace keepers that Russia will permit to police it will be truly independent parties with little or no skin in the game: Switzerland and Hungary from Europe - but no NATO members - I would have thought.

IMO, all these talks are leading precisely nowhere because everyone knows the game is up: Russia has won hands down (note tense) and there's absolutely sweet FA anyone in the west can do about it. The game that's being played now is the blame game - or preparation for it at least. So, when our wonderful leaders can no longer hide the facts and everyone knows the true state of play, it's about who gets painted as the baddie that let everyone down because they didn't commit enough funds, or enough tanks, Hymars, F-16s (insert wonder weapon of your choice), or imposed enough sanctions - or simply did too little too late. You can hear the excuses now: 'If only. . . (Trump, Starmer, Macron or whoever) had done XYZ - then Ukraine would have won the war and Putin would be toast'. It's as inevitable as night follows day. Sadly.
Tim.
 
Security guarantees depend on reliable guarantors.😉
View attachment 345121
Hi R_L,
Not sure of your source, but it's misleading in part - certainly regarding the Minsk agreements. It's Europe that reneged on those and, amazingl;y, even bragged out it saying they were just a stalling tactic to allow Ukraine to re-arm. Not saying Russia's perfect and done everything by the book - I'm sure that haven't - but NATO and the west shoulder the burden of blame when it come to reneging on deals and needlessly - and repeatedly - poking the Russian bear with a big stick.
Tim.
 
Hi R_L,
Not sure of your source, but it's misleading in part - certainly regarding the Minsk agreements. It's Europe that reneged on those and, amazingl;y, even bragged out it saying they were just a stalling tactic to allow Ukraine to re-arm. Not saying Russia's perfect and done everything by the book - I'm sure that haven't - but NATO and the west shoulder the burden of blame when it come to reneging on deals and needlessly - and repeatedly - poking the Russian bear with a big stick.
Tim.
The source was google's AI Overview. Here is its answer to "Who reneged on the Minsk agreement ?"
1765908613427.png


Here is google's AI Mode answer to "How well is the Ukraine war going for Russia?" It's not quite the quick Russian victory most were expecting. I think Russia will eventually "win" but with a large cost.
How well is the Ukraine war going for Russia ?

As of December 2025,
Russia
is making slow, incremental territorial gains in
Ukraine
, but at a prohibitive cost in casualties and equipment. Russia believes it is winning a war of attrition and can outlast Ukraine, but independent military analysis indicates a Russian military victory is not inevitable.

Key Aspects of Russia's War Effort
  • Slow Territorial Gains: Russia currently occupies about 19% of Ukrainian territory. The pace of advances has been slow; Russia has gained approximately 2% of Ukraine's territory since late 2023. While it has recently seized some settlements in the Donetsk and Zaporizhia regions and is close to taking the strategic town of Pokrovsk, these gains have come with heavy losses.
  • Massive Casualties: Russia has suffered immense personnel losses, with total casualties (killed and wounded) since 2022 estimated to be above one million. Russian losses are estimated at over 25,000 per month, far exceeding the Soviet losses in the decade-long war in Afghanistan. The high casualty rate creates ongoing challenges for recruitment and morale, though the Kremlin has so far managed to generate additional manpower through financial incentives.
  • Military-Industrial Capacity: Despite the loss of over 3,000 tanks and numerous other pieces of equipment since the start of the war, Russia has mobilized its economy to support its war effort. It is increasing domestic production of weapons like drones and missiles and acquiring support from countries like China, Iran, and North Korea to sustain operations in the foreseeable future.
  • Economic Resilience: Western sanctions have strained the Russian economy, but Moscow has successfully leveraged high energy revenues and massive state spending on its military-industrial complex to largely offset the impact. The Kremlin can likely sustain the war for another two to three years under current conditions, though it faces rising inflation and a labor shortage.
  • Unchanged Objectives: Russia's fundamental war aims have not changed, and it continues to pursue the subjugation of Ukraine and regime change in Kyiv. Russian officials have stated they will not compromise on the territories they have seized, including Crimea and the Donbas region.
  • Peace Negotiations: While U.S. and Ukrainian officials are engaged in discussions regarding a potential peace deal, experts remain skeptical. Russia has rejected key points of proposed peace plans and is setting conditions to reject any agreement that does not concede its maximalist demands.
In essence, Russia has failed to achieve a quick, decisive victory and has borne staggering costs, but it has adapted its strategy and mobilized its resources to continue the war as a prolonged conflict of attrition, believing it can eventually outlast Ukraine's ability to fight.
 
I'm sorry to say I don't share your optimism, At'. I hope I'm wrong but, to me, this sounds like NATO through the back door which, needless to say, Russia won't agree to. If there's a buffer zone dividing whatever remains of Ukraine to the West and Russian occupied territory to the east, the only peace keepers that Russia will permit to police it will be truly independent parties with little or no skin in the game: Switzerland and Hungary from Europe - but no NATO members - I would have thought.

IMO, all these talks are leading precisely nowhere because everyone knows the game is up: Russia has won hands down (note tense) and there's absolutely sweet FA anyone in the west can do about it. The game that's being played now is the blame game - or preparation for it at least. So, when our wonderful leaders can no longer hide the facts and everyone knows the true state of play, it's about who gets painted as the baddie that let everyone down because they didn't commit enough funds, or enough tanks, Hymars, F-16s (insert wonder weapon of your choice), or imposed enough sanctions - or simply did too little too late. You can hear the excuses now: 'If only. . . (Trump, Starmer, Macron or whoever) had done XYZ - then Ukraine would have won the war and Putin would be toast'. It's as inevitable as night follows day. Sadly.
Tim.
I see your point yes n agree hosting Nato countries soldiers is not an option.

Ukraine just being arse in face about guarantees.

Best option is friendly relations n trade w neighbours.

Hardly a difficult choice or a solution to implement.

Ukraine needs to get rid of Zelensky the little kunt n host elections giving the middle finger to her puppet masters.

I would then brake the deal with the US on rare minerals (why not join the party on violating International agreements) n then Carry On, w sorting them selves out n hopefully join EU.

Simple solution imo.
 
The source was google's AI Overview. Here is its answer to "Who reneged on the Minsk agreement ?"
Thanks R_L,
To my mind, this is just further evidence - for those that need it - of AIs built-in bias. I accept fully that if the exact same question was asked of Russian AI that it would be biased in favour of Russia. On balance though, Russian version of events is either closer to the truth than Ukraine's version of events or, put the other way around, less prone to gross misleading statements or outright lies, IMO. The proof is/will be in the pudding. When (not if) Ukraine's defenses crumble, Russia takes Odessa - which it almost certainly will - then the powers that be (politicians, MSM and the military industrial complex/NATO) will have a lot of explaining to do. At that point the blame game will be well underway.
Tim.
 

Black Sea Fleet Denies Damage After Ukraine Reports Submarine Attack

Ukraine's non-NATO pledge moot as alliance decides everything — top Hungarian diplomat

Ukraine’s ex-commander-in-chief warns about risks of civil war after conflict is ended

 
A non-partisan research post - London
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blah, blah, blah, ....... 🤣 🤣

THE REAL NEWS - IF ANY ⁉️

Ukraine peace deal proposals could be finalised within days, Zelensky says in biggest sign yet of possible breakthrough

Volodymyr Zelensky says peace deal proposals that may end the nearly-four-year invasion of Ukraine could be finalised in the coming days.

The Ukrainian leader said late on Monday night that a draft peace plan discussed with American officials during talks in Berlin earlier in the day is 'very workable.'

If these plans are finalised, then they will be presented to the Kremlin before further possible meetings in the US next weekend.

The US on Monday said that there's consensus from Ukraine and Europe on about 90% of the peace plan, while Donald Trump added: 'I think we're closer now than we have been, ever' to a peace settlement.

But Zelensky warned that key issues, including the fate of Ukrainian territory captured by Vladimir Putin's invading forces, are yet to be resolved.

He reiterated that Kyiv rules out recognising Moscow's control over any part of the Donbas, an economically important region in eastern Ukraine made up of Luhansk and Donetsk, neither of which Russia's army fully controls.

❓❓❓❓❓❓❓ ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓ ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓


'The Americans are trying to find a compromise,' Zelensky said, before visiting the Netherlands on Tuesday. 'They are proposing a "free economic zone" [in the Donbas region]. And I want t
 
The source was google's AI Overview. Here is its answer to "Who reneged on the Minsk agreement ?"
Hi R_L (again!),
In case you (or other subscribers to the thread) are interested, I thought I'd back up my comments about the west sabotaging the Minsk agreements with links (and links within links) to credible sources. Needless to say, one has to get such info' from independent media, as MSM do not stray from the official western narrative - which is predominantly what Goodle's AI looks at. I happen to have chosen UKColumn, as their journalists are (mostly) top notch (Venessa Bealey in the first link, below) and their guest contributors and authors are experts in their field (Col. Jacques Baud in the case of the second link).

Merkel admits Minsk 2014–15 peace accord was a time-buying feint; criticism of Ukrainian extremism still very tightly policed online

This news programme was aired on Friday, 9th December 2022 and this segment starts at 38:27 minutes into the show - roughly half way through. Note that the link in the show notes to Merkel's interview referenced in RT "can't be reached" which, presumably, applies equally to Google's AI as much as it does us, providing further evidence of bias!

Ukraine: The Search for Peace by Col. Jacques Baud​

This is a long article that covers not just the Minsk agreements but much else besides, with numerous links to follow up on for those that are interested. About the author: "Jacques Baud holds a Master's degree in econometrics and a postgraduate degree in international security from the Graduate Institute of International Relations in Geneva and was a colonel in the Swiss Army. He worked for the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service and was an advisor on the security of refugee camps in Eastern Zaïre during the Rwandan war, worked for NATO in locations including Ukraine, and is the author of several books on intelligence, asymmetric warfare, terrorism and disinformation. His book on the Russia-Ukraine war is currently available in French only."

Enjoy!
Tim.
 

Merkel admits Minsk 2014–15 peace accord was a time-buying feint; criticism of Ukrainian extremism still very tightly policed online

This news programme was aired on Friday, 9th December 2022 and this segment starts at 38:27 minutes into the show - roughly half way through. Note that the link in the show notes to Merkel's interview referenced in RT "can't be reached" which, presumably, applies equally to Google's AI as much as it does us, providing further evidence of bias!
I'd guess Merkel had some idea of Russia's future plans such as taking more of Ukraine which of course happened and is still ongoing.
 
I'd guess Merkel had some idea of Russia's future plans such as taking more of Ukraine which of course happened and is still ongoing.
That's the western narrative, not supported by any evidence at the time. (Note emphasis) Whereas, there was - and remains - mountains of evidence of NATO expansion and the relentless build up of Ukraine's military in readiness to fight a proxy war with Russia with the stated goal of regime change and to maintain and extend U.S. hegemony. (E.g. the Rand Report 2019: Extending Russia).

That's the important difference between the two narratives and nails precisely why one is believable and credible while the other is anything but. To be clear, had the west not embarked on a direct and deliberate course of confrontation with Russia dating as far back as the accession (in principle) of Ukraine to NATO at their Bucharest summit in 2008 - there is no evidence, zero, nada, zilch - that we would be where we are today. In this respect, everyone on the other side of the argument (from At', Histo' and me et al) are forever putting the cart before the horse. This is an understandable mistake for those who have no understanding of the back story and believes the propaganda they're spoon fed by MSM. Namely, that Putin the evil dictator got out of bed on the wrong side one morning in Feb' 2023 and decided to invade Ukraine. Needless to say R_L, you're not in that camp, as you've had all the evidence you could possibly want laid before you on a near daily basis for the last three years!
😉
 

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If only European leaders, the Trump administration and Zelensky listened to the pearls of wisdom and sage advice from these three men - then there might be some hope for us all. Alas, they don't and there isn't.

 
If only European leaders, the Trump administration and Zelensky listened to the pearls of wisdom and sage advice from these three men - then there might be some hope for us all. Alas, they don't and there isn't.


They are talking about failed negotiations without stating the reasons for actions as to why?

Trump has got the deal he wants. 50% of rare earth minerals in Ukraine belong to the US. That's a done deal in return for the billions of dollars in aid for the war that the US provided.

Trump has also done a deal with Russia over their activities in Venezuela and taking over their oil sales and over throwing Madura to implement a US friendly regime. US will not interfere / aid Ukraine war and Russia will not interfere / aid Venezuela.

Fact of the matter as before is Europe feels left out and needs something from the Russians or Ukraine to compensate them for their billions of euros in aid for the war the EU provided. This is the CRUX of the issue for EU now. Otherwise they are at a loss. All those billions up in smoke.

Giving another 90bn to Ukraine and backing off on Russian assets in Europe is appeasing Russia imo to take more territory in Ukraine and squeezing Zelensky a bit more. Ukraine is well and trully rolled over by the US and EU. I strongly suspect behind closed doors and diplomatic channels, EU and Russia, without the US are carving out bits of Ukraine for them selves. Time will tell.

No idea what Zelensky or Ukraine is holding out for?
 
Hi At',
Not sure if you're wanting me to respond to your points or not - but I thought I would as your 'read' of the situation is slightly different to mine. . .
They are talking about failed negotiations without stating the reasons for actions as to why?
Well, the negotiations have - and will fail - because Ukraine and NATO are talking amongst themselves in a vacuum. Neither of them are engaging in dialogue with Putin and the Russians, let alone addressing the core issues that are the root cause of the war. Whatever one thinks of Trump - at least his administration is talking to Putin and Lavrov.

Trump has got the deal he wants. 50% of rare earth minerals in Ukraine belong to the US. That's a done deal in return for the billions of dollars in aid for the war that the US provided.
Well, Trump may end up with 50% of nothing if Russia wins this conflict outright which, as things stand, is all but inevitable. Those rare earth minerals will likely end up in Russian hands.

Trump has also done a deal with Russia over their activities in Venezuela and taking over their oil sales and over throwing Madura to implement a US friendly regime. US will not interfere / aid Ukraine war and Russia will not interfere / aid Venezuela.
This is certainly possible - if not probable. We'll see how this unfolds in 2026.

Fact of the matter as before is Europe feels left out and needs something from the Russians or Ukraine to compensate them for their billions of euros in aid for the war the EU provided. This is the CRUX of the issue for EU now. Otherwise they are at a loss. All those billions up in smoke.
NATO and the EU are completely sidelined and utterly impotent. They are desperate people resorting to desperate measures with the sole aim of keeping Ukraine afloat financially and keeping the war going. Their worst nightmare is that Putin achieves all the goals he set out at the start of the 'special military operation' and then stops his advance westwards. The insane rhetoric of Mark Rutte, Von der Leyen, Starmer, Macron et al will be exposed for what is is: fear mongering to prop up their failing regimes. When the war ends, their whole raison d'être will be gone and, hopefully, so will they.

Giving another 90bn to Ukraine and backing off on Russian assets in Europe is appeasing Russia imo to take more territory in Ukraine and squeezing Zelensky a bit more. Ukraine is well and trully rolled over by the US and EU. I strongly suspect behind closed doors and diplomatic channels, EU and Russia, without the US are carving out bits of Ukraine for them selves. Time will tell.
The 90bn is just to keep Ukraine afloat, i.e. keep civil servants in place, pay the soldiers, pensioners - so on and so forth. It'll last 6 months, a year maybe - but not much more than that. Then they'll resort to the only thing they have left which is to steal the Russian frozen assets which, needless to say, is completely illegal. This could easily cause the EU to implode, as the infighting over this will go off the richter scale. Belgium - the home of the EU - could go bankrupt. Whatever happens, one thing is certain: no large company or sovereign state will ever invest a single penny in the EU ever again. It's financial and political suicide for the EU.

But all this is by the by. The key point rarely mentioned by MSM is that throwing billions at Ukraine makes zero difference to the outcome on the battlefield. None, zero, nada, zilch. All it does is prolong the needless death and destruction. Meanwhile, the financial abyss that Europe is in deepens and an already horrific situation goes from bad to worse. It's a total waste of money that benefits no one - with the possible exception of Zelensky's cocaine dealer and real estate agent.

No idea what Zelensky or Ukraine is holding out for?
Oh, that's an easy one: a miracle!
😉
On a more serious note, Zelensky is holding out for a change of U.S. policy (think mid terms next November), so that the money and weapons start flowing again to ramp up the failing war machine. Meanwhile, he continues to enrich himself and the key players around him - army generals and senior politicians etc. - who keep him in power. As soon as the money stops flowing, Zelensky is toast. In his case, that could mean more than just his political career: he'll have a target on his back for the rest of his life.
Tim.
 
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