Ukraine invasion

[Atilla]

Er, I don’t think you’ll find that I ever expressed any support for that war. I merely argued that it wasn’t about WMD, but to stop and send a signal about state sponsored terrorism following 9/11 (which it did).

Civilisation doesn’t seem to have moved on much in that last few hundred years, more’s the pity. You would have thought, by now, that war would have been consigned to the history books. Some hope!

So are you suggesting Iraq was some random convenient country declared war upon to teach others about state-sponsored terrorism? That is no justification for war. The reason given to UN was WMD. Slam dunk case.

Moreover, intelligence agencies have said since that war if anything Terrorism exploded in the world. Al-Qaida morphed into so called ISIS. Just made those willing to do so carry out worst atrocities justifying actions in response to unjust wars. Anyone who justifies those actions along your lines must be nuts. No substance in either argument imo.

Whatever you guys say or think doesn't matter because the truth is out there. Bliar said history will judge me and indeed it has. Guy gets no respect wherever he goes imo. Laughed out. Ridiculed. Told to shut up and stay away.

Why are we being fed lies and deceit now? Why is US financing WMD in other countries? R&D gain-of-funciton it does not allow inside her own borders? Some people calling for Fauci to be jailed. There are some really hard fundamental questions here that need answers? The Chinese virus turns out to be financed by US of A. Who can freaking believe that? Rinse repeat and here are in Ukraine.

Modify bird virus with gain-of-function research to affect Slav dna and then fly birds into Russia. That's some heavy freaky sh!t.


More importantly, I feel those 9/11 lies and distortions manipulating information and building a false case for war has sown the seeds of distrust between governments and their populations. People simply do not trust MSM or the news. Trump has capitalised on fake news. Truth has been murdered by politicians who have abused it to gain power and influence, crony capitalism at the expense of death and destruction.

The legacy of those lies lives on. People know in their hearts US and UK messed up big time. 7 Trillion dollars. What a colossal waste. Almost a million deaths. 4m refugees. Consequences of war that still haunts us today.

Rinse repeat and US perpetrating war in Ukraine.

 

[Mumpsimus]

Just an example from 2017 .. only 100 reports are accessible easily. Google restricts the access.

Latest from the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), based on information received as of 19:30, 16 October 2017

This report is for the media and the general public. The SMM recorded fewer ceasefire violations in Donetsk region and more in Luhansk region compared with the previous 24-hours.

www.osce.org

It's a result of Minsk II.
Did you find anything in MSM about these reports? Any comment in the MSM before?

Western war advocates - ask yourself. Just for yourelf.

Do you want to win this war?
You? You are involved?
Do you want Ukraine to win this war?
Which war?
Talking only about invasion can hide the mostly ignored war lasting since 8 years?
What do you think is the result of delivering weapons to Ukraine? End of war? Winning the war? (go back to question 2, please)
What is the legal base to deliver weapons to Ukraine? Past NATO maneuvers in Ukraine while they are not a member?

You have immediately answers for all questions? Fine, then you have more than I do.

I can only speak for myself but in the past years since the first Russian invasion, I have been aware of regular news items mentioning ceasefire and agreement violations, though due to their almost incessant nature, there has been limited detail.
Once again, who are the "war advocates"? ...and yet again, speaking personally, I believe that the invasion and current war should never have happened - a belief that I would consider to be shared by a majority. It can only stop if either Ukraine surrenders or Russia withdraws. Whether you think that either side are in the right or not, I'm fairly confident that you would agree that these two outcomes are problematic. The Ukrainians don't want to give up a substantial part of their country and Putin must absolutely deliver a "win" for Russia if he is to be able to continue in power. As I said right at the beginning of the invasion, it is indeed a shitshow.

 

[Mumpsimus]

.. only 100 reports are accessible easily. Google restricts the access.

Out of interest which search engine are you using? I have found that Bing, Ecosia, Yahoo and my personal first choice DuckDuckGo all produce similar results. On the OSCE and OHCHR results: I couldn't find any evidence that their public reports and attendant stats are in any way restricted. I did note that the Ukrainian conflict casualty numbers from the OHCHR report cited by both the Russian and the Ukrainian government appear to have come verbatim from their written answer to an enquiry by Radio Free Europe/Liberty....which is somewhat ironic as it's considered to be a (at least by me anyway ) to be a US propaganda channel....

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Out of interest which search engine are you using? I have found that Bing, Ecosia, Yahoo and my personal first choice DuckDuckGo all produce similar results. On the OSCE and OHCHR results: I couldn't find any evidence that their public reports and attendant stats are in any way restricted. I did note that the Ukrainian conflict casualty numbers from the OHCHR report cited by both the Russian and the Ukrainian government appear to have come verbatim from their written answer to an enquiry by Radio Free Europe/Liberty....which is somewhat ironic as it's considered to be a (at least by me anyway ) to be a US propaganda channel....

They use google as search engine and google does not offer more than 10 pages. That's what I called restriction.
I also use DuckDuckGo and Firefox.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I can only speak for myself but in the past years since the first Russian invasion, I have been aware of regular news items mentioning ceasefire and agreement violations, though due to their almost incessant nature, there has been limited detail.
Once again, who are the "war advocates"? ...and yet again, speaking personally, I believe that the invasion and current war should never have happened - a belief that I would consider to be shared by a majority. It can only stop if either Ukraine surrenders or Russia withdraws. Whether you think that either side are in the right or not, I'm fairly confident that you would agree that these two outcomes are problematic. The Ukrainians don't want to give up a substantial part of their country and Putin must absolutely deliver a "win" for Russia if he is to be able to continue in power. As I said right at the beginning of the invasion, it is indeed a shitshow.

Belgorod: First Ukrainian airstrike on Russian territory

Two Ukraine's military helicopters struck a fuel depot in the Russian city of Belgorod on Friday (1 April), a Russian official has said, making the first accusation of a Ukrainian air strike on Russian soil since Moscow invaded its neighbour.

www.euractiv.com

Added:

China warns of spectre of trouble for Asia plotted by US in light of Ukraine’s crisis

The Chinese foreign minister said that Beijing’s third point characterizing its position is its opposition to Cold War methods

tass.com

Kiev tries to prevent publication of evidence of torture of Russian soldiers — SVR

It is reported the Ukrainian authorities have been urging their Western patrons to persuade the International Red Cross and various non-governmental organizations to give up attempts to get access to Russian prisoners of war

tass.com

 

[Atilla]

I really think Ukranians should be questioning their leadership on why this war is taking place?

Hope that NATO application was worth it!

Are they aware by such acts of fool hardy desire to join NATO and host nuclear weapons, they'll make themselves a target for a nuclear strike?


Escalation decision made by someone or other. I can't see it contributing to anything remotely positive. It will cost more lives.

 

[counter_violent]

I really think Ukranians should be questioning their leadership on why this war is taking place?

Hope that NATO application was worth it!

Are they aware by such acts of fool hardy desire to join NATO and host nuclear weapons, they'll make themselves a target for a nuclear strike?


Escalation decision made by someone or other. I can't see it contributing to anything remotely positive. It will cost more lives.

I think the Russian people should be questioning their leadership on why this special operation is taking place.

Russian oil storage depot is just the start.

EU could do as Zelensky requests and stop buying Russian Oil and Gas, otherwise ya just never know what could happen to those pipelines.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I think the Russian people should be questioning their leadership on why this special operation is taking place.

Russian oil storage depot is just the start.

EU could do as Zelensky requests and stop buying Russian Oil and Gas, otherwise ya just never know what could happen to those pipelines.

Rising level of confidence in Putin points to social cohesion, expert says

According to Viktor Poturemsky, all pollsters have recently been recording a rise in the level of confidence in the Russian president

tass.com

 

[counter_violent]

Rising level of confidence in Putin points to social cohesion, expert says

According to Viktor Poturemsky, all pollsters have recently been recording a rise in the level of confidence in the Russian president

tass.com

Russian people believe whatever they are told to believe. It's called propaganda.

Wrong thread.

Try Joke of the day.

Best Thread - Joke of the day

Sadly, Dave was born without ears. And although he proved to be successful in business, his lack of ears annoyed him greatly. One day he needed to hire a new manager for his company, so he set up three interviews. The first guy was great. He knew everything he needed to know and was very...

www.trade2win.com

 

[timsk]

Bye bye U.S. Dollar. Hello Russian Ruble . . .
By pegging gold to the ruble, Russia has just wiped out the dollar’s clout from the world markets

Russia's 3-Step Program To Put The Ruble On A Gold Standard

 

[CavaliereVerde]

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

UK anti-ship systems in Ukraine to become legitimate targets for Russian forces — diplomat

The Russian diplomat noted the illusory perception of military actions in Ukraine in the United Kingdom

tass.com

 

[Atilla]

I think the Russian people should be questioning their leadership on why this special operation is taking place.

Russian oil storage depot is just the start.

EU could do as Zelensky requests and stop buying Russian Oil and Gas, otherwise ya just never know what could happen to those pipelines.

These 5 points are the reasons for the special operation from my perspective.

Do you feel, Ukraine escalating the war and winning it will see it so it can continue to carry on.

1. Join NATO
2. Host nuclear weapons pointing them at Russia and have nukes pointed back at them
3. Liberate the disputed regions and ethnically cleanse the pro-Russian population
4. Have the Azov infested Nazi military liberate Mariupol and sort out the pro-Russian citizens in their usual humane way
5. Continue to host US financed Biolabs and research dangerous and outlawed WMD with no over-sight

Do you really buy the liberate Ukraine which was a peace-loving harmonious democratic country purely independent of foreign interests and everyone then gets to live ever happy after?

From what I can see those 5 points are sticking points no matter what. Ukraine leadership has embarked on paddling up sheet creek with US and UK paddles imo.

The citizens of Ukraine really need to wise up but propoganda sh!!te will tell them otherwise.

UK anti-ship systems in Ukraine to become legitimate targets for Russian forces — diplomat

The Russian diplomat noted the illusory perception of military actions in Ukraine in the United Kingdom

tass.com

Agree with this post that the foreign powers are not really interested in saving lives or freedoms or protecting democracies but only serving their self interest, selling weapons, escalating tensions and killing civilians. Of course, there is a clear manipulation of the Ukraine government too.


Another point, whenever I hear Zelensky and he is presented as the front guy with no other cabinet behind him, advisors or generals, just speaking words which are not exactly refined or what I might expect of a considered and well informed leader presenting facts. I see him as a little stooge. Comedian would be an apt description yes.

Reminds me of a person who has not the slightest of interest in Ukrainian civilians or the consequences for his actions. His sentences are battle cries as if spoken by great leaders. Indeed some other bodies have commented on similar references to his speech to Parliament and US Senate where he drew references to Churchill and some other US bodies. Obviously, not his own words just a script written for him for the papers to print in mustering support from the British public. Ooooh they are like us they need help.

Once again the question is what is Ukraine after. What will they do about the 5 points above? FA is mentioned in our local MSM about the substantial issues but more emotive presentation of lives lost which Zelensky has no interest in but probably welcomes it, thinking it is good political capital.

That's my tuppence pov.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

‘When will Ukraine join the EU?’
‘Immediately after Turkey.’
‘And when will Turkey join?’
‘Turkey? Never…"

 

[CavaliereVerde]

What's the point to continuously refferring to tass ?
Maybe russian media had some kind of credibility BEFORE this total bullshit of denazification, now their credibility is close to zero.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

What's the point to continuously refferring to tass ?
Maybe russian media had some kind of credibility BEFORE this total bullshit of denazification, now their credibility is close to zero.

Much more facts - less opinions than Western MSM.
And written in easy English.

If you don't agree, you can take it as knowledge what the opponents of your opinion can think.

You are not forced to read it.

To tolerate and promote violant nazis is not part of a democratic mindset.

 

[timsk]

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

What's the point to continuously refferring to tass ?
Maybe russian media had some kind of credibility BEFORE this total bullshit of denazification, now their credibility is close to zero.

Could it be that Tass toes the line on Russian propaganda better than Pravda?

 

[Atilla]

What's the point to continuously refferring to tass ?
Maybe russian media had some kind of credibility BEFORE this total bullshit of denazification, now their credibility is close to zero.

The reason why I listen to and read international news and TV stations is simply to get the other viewpoint.

I used to watch RT channel and it's been closed since the intervention. Why is that?

We are supposed to have freedom of speech and our first response is to close the airways to what they don't want you to hear.

World news — RT International

RT delivers latest news on current events from around the world including special reports, viral news and exclusive videos.

www.rt.com

When the hospital was hit I went to check Russian media. Found out it was used as a command centre and some of the troops took fire coming from the hospital.

How about boxes full of weapons being labelled up as humanitarian aid boxes.

Not news you'll get on the BBC.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I used to watch RT channel and it's been closed since the intervention. Why is that?

I was used too and I agree on this I don't like any kind of censorship.

When the hospital was hit I went to check Russian media. Found out it was used as a command centre and some of the troops took fire coming from the hospital.

And do you believe it?