Trying to Learn Some Systems for Daytrading

Noitartst

Member
I'm new to trading, overall, and looking for Info about daytrading, in general, and daytrading systems, specifically. (My mindset, so you know, is more systemic, than discretionary.)

So, what books, what faqs, that sorta thing?
 

billyjean

Active member
I'm new to trading, overall, and looking for Info about daytrading, in general, and daytrading systems, specifically. (My mindset, so you know, is more systemic, than discretionary.)

So, what books, what faqs, that sorta thing?

there's various way of it.
as day traders, it has to match your personality first.
there's useless to develop something you didnt like.
A. when you're aim for 1-2 trades a day, fibonacci level would be nice to take.
B.but if you're more likely comfortable with short term trade, goes with scalping strategies.

what book ?
you can start with candlestick by steve nieson, refers to point A.
read about niel fuller price action are good stuff to begin refers to poin B.
personally i'm more with point B, applied at ecn account with armada markets. as I oftenly visit their site (at least 2 times a month for wd application.. :smart:), i figure out they have a short brief of common used trading strategies, not too confusing, http://www.armadamarkets.com/forex-strategies-2/ , fyi those strategies are commonly used at daily trades. pick which one are suit your need, suit your desirable mind, and we can start a further discussion about your chosen strategies.
last thing about fact you concern about, new trader sometimes too greedy at their first try, i'm not refer to trading activity, but more at strategies, they mostly act so tough, hunger of knowledge, and choose any kind of strategies they saw without desire to master it, and end up flush out all strategies.
 

Noitartst

Member
Well, I'm reasonably sure I'm not a scalper. And I'm systemic, not discretionary. I know that, at least.

WHat I need to know, starting out, is what to expect in any given system, if I follow it. I think I accept, and hopefuly embrace, that any trade is a probablity, and if I don't panic, stay disciplined, the markets will float me to buoyancy, but I don't yet know that from experience; I'm looking to find this out in part by demo trading, but I'm looking for personality indicators which will help me figure out if the armor fits, or will simply weigh me down.

So, in what timeframe does this regularly bring profit? What percentage of trades go South? How long do I hold? What about profits, adjusted for fees? Also, starting out, I'll be investing with only $5,000, I suppose, so it's the thinnest of margins for me; that's why I'm thinking of doing day trading, though I may be more suited to swing.

One thing about day trading, vs. swing trading, is how many trades I'll make a day, and how much a month, assuming I trade five days a week? Spending two, three hours at a computer suits me, I think.

Is there any easy way going in to gage my trading temperament? Do I exude anything, excluding naivete?

At any rate, thank you for the strategies link; I'll examine them.

PS: When you mean "flush out of strategies," they decide their initial one, which they don't master, isn't for them, get disillusioned, and give up entirely? That what you mean?
 
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Noitartst

Member
Question: So Forex trades futures contracts? I was reading up on strategies for that market, here:
http://www.armadamarkets.com/forex-strategies-2/

Strategies listed: Support & resistance, breakouts, moving average, oscillators, and finally, technical formations & Japanese candles.

Which one should I do, or are these strategies indicators? At any rate, any one of the is a signal that I primarily follow; switching indicators in midstream makes you get swept away by the current--yes? I suppose using multiple indicators can be done, but that leads to excess complexity.

Just stick to one strategy, and that is my edge, yes? Are the ones I've listed all the main ones, and can they be utilized by all trading styles, or just certain ones? Specifically, I'm trying to develop one for day trading, are all these conducive for that?

Hm... saw this video: talking about "m" and "w" pattern. What strategy is that? Fibonacci?

(I may eventually focus on swing trading, but for now, it's day; do these strategies fit swing?)

Hm...looked at a bear pattern for short selling here:

Seems like the windows for short-sellin are small...this is scalping in action, yes? Not for me, I'm afraid.
 
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Noitartst

Member
Annoying...I'm throwing out all my thoughts at once, no responses. I may be talking stupid, but I'm trying to learn, and that means running into walls. Bears or bulls, buying low, and selling high is the constant, and I'm looking into any system that does that.

Spreading seems a bit different, though. Am I to assume that it's similar to the "point spread" in gambling? Let's see...I read up on this a little, years back. In gambling, you're looking for cases where the betting ratios don't meet up with reality, like where the home team's too optimistic. I assume that this is about anticipating the future alignment between the cash and Futures wings of the commodities market, yes? Being more realistic than the average bear...and bull, shall we say?
 

bredin

Member
Go look at a chart. A daily zoomed right out will suffice.

Ask yourself where the best places are to buy, where to sell. [do NOT ask why or make judgements yet]

After youve done this. And only after.
Zoom into the places youve marked as good areas on smaller charts, H1 eg.
Now ask yourself "How can I get into a trade in about this place on the chart"
Mark up those charts with *your* thoughts and ideas.

No indicator, or set of indicators, in the world can replicate this, and nothing I know of can develop a better trader.

B.
 

Noitartst

Member
I'm trying to set up a chart based on this guy's, right here:

I have a ninjatrader demo account; how do I set it up? What kind of chart is his, exactly? He says it's kinda uncommon, but it seem intriguing, at least.
 

Noitartst

Member
Sooo...lemme get this straight-- I just start following the market through my Ninjatrader account, via some chart, any chart, and start to figure out when would be a good time to buy, and sell, yes?

Can do. Please forgive my repetition, here.
 

rathcoole_exile

Veteren member
mate, let me give you some advice.

1. ignore 99% of advice on here, including my own if it pleases you to do so
2. draw 2 horizontal lines on your chart, Monthly Pivots based on last months OHLC
3. sit, and sit, and sit, and sit, until price nudges either price line and Fade it, ie go Long at the lower price line, Short at the upper


If a trade doesn't get triggered at all, so what, your net results will still be better than 95% of day-traders


After 3 years of doing that, move to Weekly pivots
And after 5 years of doing that, move to Daily pivots
 

Noitartst

Member
Thank you; also, it seems that traders switch between markets but do so following when, and where their systems work, ignoring markets where there isn't any action.

That about right?
 

FxRock

Junior member
Re Trying to Learn Some Systems for Daytrading

I am trading from last 1 years. i would like to share with you friends about my trading system. When i start use some indicator but unfortunately i don`t get big benefits from that. then i come to know about Price Action System and join PRICE ACTION TRADING WITH THE FOREX GUY learn from there and at this time make profit. though it`s not much but day by day it`s increase. If any traders want to learn about trading with price action and good money management then have a look at http://www.theforexguy.com/

Also as on ``rathcoole_exile`` previous post you can ignore if you thought it`s not helpful. I also support ``rathcoole_exile`` but i don`t ignore all. which really good only i accept that :D
 

Noitartst

Member
Well, for now, I'm just trying to learn how to follow a chart via NinjaTrader, and am trying to learn the technical details of the system.

When you say to look on a chart, you mean to look on a chart for some market in real time via NinjaTrader, or some other system, yes? I'm working on that, once I know how to use Ninjatrader to examine the markets.

Am I making sense, or am I completely retarded, right now?

Also, I was wondering about how to survive a losing streak without losing a lot of money. A system that wins 80% of the time has at worst a propensity of losing seven in a row, and I can't let that destroy me. So, what do I do? Many systems have a winning precentage of less than 50%, so what to do?
 
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rathcoole_exile

Veteren member
Thank you; also, it seems that traders switch between markets but do so following when, and where their systems work, ignoring markets where there isn't any action.

That about right?

idiots switch between markets

smart traders spend years learning the pulse, the vibrations, every nuance, the essence of their chosen market;
and only then will they consider looking at other markets
 

Noitartst

Member
Hm. It would be useful to develop heuristics of whatever market you're in, then, besides simply developing a system alone, one based on something that works 90% of the time, but wrecks all your gains when it fails, that other 10%, yes? That what you're saying?
 
How I learned.

Looked at a chart (S&P 500 1 minute - before the emini)
Make a guess. E.G. go long on Monday at 9:00 EST
Back test the guess (20+years should do it).
Realize the first guess isn't right all the time. Make another guess.
Repeat.

You can only have full trust in your own program. If the published programs worked, then everyone would be rich.
 

Fugazsy

Veteren member
Day trading and scalping is hard but doable and pays well.

Books? I do not know.....

The only way is the hard way....

Every day print the 5m TF (only one instrument) daily chart and see what happened before there was a move to justify your entry based on your risk. (you might need a smaller TF to enter).

Go back several months and do the same (more you go back better it will be).

Decide what is best for your personality: with trend or counter trend and stick with it and became a master of it.

Use TA to read the chart not just as a mean to it, but as a representation of the psychology of the participants, when you enter a trade you want both bulls and bears to travel your way (one side will be covering) and encouraging the participation of the sideliner.

You need to be able to read their emotions and take advantage of it. When you win somebody else is losing.

Then trade live (not demo, you can trade small) and learn to read what is coming on the right part of the chart, it is not black and white, it is all grey, but with a lot of time, persistence, commitment, passion, tenacity and a bit of madness you will able to read price action and make it worth while.

Once there you increase volume not the number of trades, you only need a few per day.

Only my two cents.
 
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Fugazsy

Veteren member
clearly even two cents is worthless


Fair enough.

That was my view and the way I do it, the thread starter asked others opinion, I was only sharing, it might be worthless to you but not to me. Certainly you dismissive post without any constructive criticisms (you meant to be senior here posting from 2009) does not encourage to participate in this forum.

Seems like you have none (views) in regard and trolling here is your prerogative, and I have reported to the mods .

I will not get back to your likely reply, I have not time in feeding trolls.
 
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Noitartst

Member
TF? What market, or exchange, is that? At any rate, what you're saying is: Get a readout of the market day's intervals a the length of five minutes. Check.

Figure out the market's charts beforehand, learn to predict from them. Check.

Well, I have Ninjatrader, and it doesn't cover Forex, or anything international, apparently, so they're all out; has to be an American market, I guess, so which Futures on should it be for an aspiring day trader?

SO, I need to chart a market, then start applying indicators to figure out what they're gonna do, based on indicators, yes?
 
TF? What market, or exchange, is that? At any rate, what you're saying is: Get a readout of the market day's intervals a the length of five minutes. Check.

Figure out the market's charts beforehand, learn to predict from them. Check.

Well, I have Ninjatrader, and it doesn't cover Forex, or anything international, apparently, so they're all out; has to be an American market, I guess, so which Futures on should it be for an aspiring day trader?

SO, I need to chart a market, then start applying indicators to figure out what they're gonna do, based on indicators, yes?

TF = time frame, in the case mentioned.. 5m = five minute

This is my first post here and I've only just recently discovered this forum, but after reading your thread I felt compelled to sign up and post in response to your questions.

I am in a similar position to you I think.. I'm gearing up to trade the emini S&P market with Ninjatrader with a starting balance of 3-5K after purchasing a life time license for ninjatrade ($995).

I've been demo trading since around the end of October and am pretty pleased with my November trading results which worked out to around 42% before commission deduction. This was also with downtime of about 4 days at the beginning of the month when messing around with Ninjatrader and figuring out they only offer a short time frame to demo trade with live market feed.

Anyways, what I would recommend for you to do if you are completely new to trading is to look into taking a course. I'm personally about to sign up with one that was listed on Investopedia for learning to trade futures. I've done my due diligence and am pleased with answers to my questions, and will be signing up shortly.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/061214/best-daytrading-schools.asp

I've got a bit of experience trading Forex, but I find ES market is more forgiving and easier to trade.

Good luck in your quest, and be sure to demo trade for a while until you are very comfortable before trading real money!

ChrisTrade
 
 
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