Trading for an IB

[Magos]

Alot of people want to be traders right!!!

Just want to share with you all how difficult it is now days!

The big money you always read in the news papers where made by prop traders....now days I believe sales traders is probably a better stradegic position to be in

But before we start the discussion I will explain the following terms:

Flow traders: buy and sell products on the financial markets for the bank's clients. . Proprietary traders: trade on behalf of the bank itself.
Sales traders deal directly with clients, providing market information, execution and promoting new financial ideas to clients.


Morgan Stanley May Spin Off Unit To HF
Morgan Stanley is planning to spin out its proprietary-trading desk into a hedge fund or opening it to outside investors, The Wall Street Journal reports. It is said the government’s involvement in the financial industry is forcing


JPMorgan Closing Up Shop
Posted by Bess Levin, Nov 04, 2008, 9:46am
On the prop desk. Financial News reports that the firm has closed its global proprietary trading business "in its current form" and will fold the remains into the bank's five main operational divisions. Is Ken Griffin to blame? Probs not but the article does point out that the shuttering "comes eight months after JP Morgan's proprietary business was hit by the loss of several senior managers to Chicago-based alternative investment firm Citadel," so, one point to KG. In a memo sent out yesterday, JPM noted that it will redeploy the division's "star traders" within the firm, while the lesser shining lights will be redeployed to the unemployment line.


Merrill Lynch cuts proprietary trading desk
Harry Wilson and Radi Khasawneh
10 Nov 2008
Merrill Lynch has closed its standalone proprietary trading business after folding the operation back into its main trading business, following a similar move by JP Morgan last week.

 

[metals_trader]

wheres the bits about prostitutes, cocaine and all going out and buying bugatti veyrons one in each colour.
:cheesy:

 

[Magos]

wheres the bits about prostitutes, cocaine and all going out and buying bugatti veyrons one in each colour.
:cheesy:

**** man not anymore

Income Tax to rise to 45% for those who earn £150k+

 

[N Rothschild]

50%

 

[Magos]

probably make some experience in london and move to monte carlo

 

[N Rothschild]

amen to that

 

[Magos]

lets think about the obious:

Finishing uni! first and want an IB trading job?

If your uni is in top 5 you will probably get one only by an intership first/ or two summer interships

If your uni is not in top 5 and you want to work forn and IB is almost impossible!

 

[Magos]

lets debate on the options

and people you can put some scenarios from personal experience! related to work experience /qualifications/direction/industry views

lets help!

 

[N Rothschild]

well i never went to university (choice, not lack of intellect). I started trading on my own have done for 2 years now. I have tried to join firms/funds etc, but due to my lack of degree they arnt really intrested. **** em, im starting my own.

 

[JackSmack]

i got a 2:1 from a top 30 uni & not particularly great A Levels as i had poor attendance (however, i was supposedly in the top 2% of the country throughout most of school & had an interest from oxbridge)... now theres pretty much no chance of me getting a job in an IB or top hedge fund etc. or at least in any half decent role ... i like to think i'm as able as all the grads getting the good roles but i suppose from the banks point of view they can only judge you on your grades. Whilst it seems a bit unfair that i won;t ever get the same opportunities due to my own mistakes, i've accepted it!

 

[SGrims]

l & had an interest from oxbridge)!

That's utter nonsense

Oxford and Cambridge believe it or not, do not 'headhunt' or show 'special interest' scouting students; you are the ones lucky enough to go there, not the other way around.

I say this, currently studying at one of the institutions for my undergraduate degree.

 

[Magos]

That's utter nonsense

Oxford and Cambridge believe it or not, do not 'headhunt' or show 'special interest' scouting students; you are the ones lucky enough to go there, not the other way around.

I say this, currently studying at one of the institutions for my undergraduate degree.

IB occasionaly come to oxb and cam for presenting them selfs and talk about reqruitment... check there websites or your career services
they do not hedhunt thats true bad if you make it to there summer job or permanent job interviews you have a good chance to get it since they like people from this two uni because IBs like to feel special

 

[Magos]

2:1 top ten uni ->business school->trading comapny->prop company-> IB

 

[BoyTrader]

I left school at 17 with GCSE's (10 years ago) got a job in an IB back office and worked up to Middle Office then to Front Office (2 years ago) Front Office recruitment is possible without any further education you need to have relevant experience and the right personality.

 

[JackSmack]

SGrims "That's utter nonsense " - **** you... just because you go to one of the institutions it does not mean that you have an expert knowledge on their recruitment process. I never meant to suggest I was headhunted or even offered a place but simply that when they came to my school, when asked for recommendations for the top students my name was given and they were very keen to speak to me. Either way the point I was making was that I am confident that I could have got in to Oxbridge, got better A Levels & got a 1st class degree had I made more effort. But as I didn't it looks like I'll struggle to every get the same opportunities and be offered the better positions. In one way I think its unfair as I'm probably as able as you and all the other grads that get in the IB grad schemes but on the other hand it was my own fault for not working hard & in fairness the IBs need a way to filter through the applicants & there can be no better way than looking at your uni first, then your degree & then your A Levels. Its only when you get the chance to interview that they are going to get a proper idea of how able you are & how well you'll fit into the organisation anwyay. As Boytrader has said it might be possible to work your way up from the backoffice but having good academics is definitely a shortcut to getting the interview and getting that much needed opportunity to prove you have the right personality.

 

[greenyblue]

lets think about the obious:

Finishing uni! first and want an IB trading job?

If your uni is in top 5 you will probably get one only by an intership first/ or two summer interships

If your uni is not in top 5 and you want to work forn and IB is almost impossible!

Not entirely true on a number of levels.

Top 5 unis are not the top 5 target unis from the (ex)BB IBs. For example, Durham is not heavily targeted by investment banks - except JPM - but is the 3rd best full uni in the country, 5th including the london colleges that don't offer a full subject range (i.e. behind oxbridge, lse and imperial). This is according to the latest tables by the way.

Internships are very useful for getting the job, but not hugely relevant as you can't do anything on the trading floor at that stage. There are more applicants per place for an internship than for the full-time job.

If you want to work for a BB Investment Bank then it is important to be at one of the top unis, but you're not autofiltered out of the application system unless you're at an establishment outside the top 10 or 15. If you can make your application stand out then you have every chance of getting an interview, even without an internship. Starting at a middle market bank is also a good way in if you fall outside the top institutions, provided you establish a good reputation.

 

[JackSmack]

"you're not autofiltered out of the application system unless you're at an establishment outside the top 10 or 15"
- which pretty much means unless you got As at A Level you won't have got into a top 15 so your chances of getting straight into a BB IB. It just seems slight silly that someone with a 1st from a top 30 uni will get overlooked even if the person from a top 5 has only a 2:1 or 2:2. Surely the highest level of education should be most relevant? I realise there are some differences between for example, the economics course at Oxbridge, LSE and Reading but are they that different that a 2:2 is better than a 2:1? It seems evident that to some extent the IBs are more concerned about being associated only with the decent named unis and actual grades and ability can be overlooked.

 

[cr6196]

i didn't get 3 As i got into a good uni that has contact with IBs and a lot of people get jobs...if they really have the ability. Getting a first from a "bad" uni is not equal to a first from oxford...there is no standardized level of examination and the level of education on offer is night and day. I go to a top uni and sometimes the education is lacking but i know it is far far worse...even at other Russell group unis.

They obviously are going to go to the decent unis. Why would they want it any other way? They aren't a charity with some kind of social motive, they are business, they hire from these places because the departments in them produce good candidates and notice departments, another thing is good academics go to good unis.

However, they wont overlook grades or ability, they aren't stupid and at the end of they day if your good enough, they will give you a job. But the vast majority of people aren't, going to the wrong uni really isnt an excuse. The job is competitive you need have what they want to get job...it isnt more complicated than that.

 

[greenyblue]

"you're not autofiltered out of the application system unless you're at an establishment outside the top 10 or 15"
- which pretty much means unless you got As at A Level you won't have got into a top 15 so your chances of getting straight into a BB IB. It just seems slight silly that someone with a 1st from a top 30 uni will get overlooked even if the person from a top 5 has only a 2:1 or 2:2. Surely the highest level of education should be most relevant? I realise there are some differences between for example, the economics course at Oxbridge, LSE and Reading but are they that different that a 2:2 is better than a 2:1? It seems evident that to some extent the IBs are more concerned about being associated only with the decent named unis and actual grades and ability can be overlooked.

Yes absolutely. Oxbridge pre-select their applicants so its is clear why BBs recruit from there. It saves them an awful lot of work, the average candidate at Oxbridge is going to be of a much higher calibre than the average candidate at most other unis, especially those outside the top 10. The very top candidates at any uni will be of a similar standard to those at Oxbridge but it is much more effort for the BBs to recruit these. In short, why would they bother when they've enough applicants from Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial to fill the places anyway?

Just to let you know, I'm not Oxbridge, LSE, or Imperial. Also: getting good A-levels with minimal work is not difficult.

 

[Magos]

Not entirely true on a number of levels.

Top 5 unis are not the top 5 target unis from the (ex)BB IBs. For example, Durham is not heavily targeted by investment banks - except JPM - but is the 3rd best full uni in the country, 5th including the london colleges that don't offer a full subject range (i.e. behind oxbridge, lse and imperial). This is according to the latest tables by the way.

Internships are very useful for getting the job, but not hugely relevant as you can't do anything on the trading floor at that stage. There are more applicants per place for an internship than for the full-time job.

If you want to work for a BB Investment Bank then it is important to be at one of the top unis, but you're not autofiltered out of the application system unless you're at an establishment outside the top 10 or 15. If you can make your application stand out then you have every chance of getting an interview, even without an internship. Starting at a middle market bank is also a good way in if you fall outside the top institutions, provided you establish a good reputation.

University Rankings League Table 2009 | Good University Guide - Times Online

Durham top 8, not bad

anyway trading is not middle office job! its front office, like M&A ll....
in this kind of roles there will always be high competition.