Trading Dax without indicators

[flytrade]

I wonder if it is possible to succesfully trade dax intraday without the use of any indicators, use only a 5 min bar chart, what's the opinion of the bigger Dax traders out there?

What about only using depth of market and time and sales as your guide, are there any succesful traders out there with this methodology?

Any answers greatly appreciated

Flytrade

 

[JillyB]

So what you're saying is -

Trading only on price, on a bar chart - not candlestick.
No MA's at all.

Candlesticks and MA's would be my minimum for this. Unless.......

Are you taking account of the previous days trading range - the OHLC? If you are then I would say it would be possible, IMHO. :cheesy:

 

[flytrade]

5 min bar chart, going back say 20 days I guess market profile as well.

 

[c6ackp]

I guess it's possible but why put yourself at a disadvantage to other traders? There are at least a couple of strategies whose signatures can be seen much earlier using basic statistical indicators than is visible on price alone.

IMHO 5M is too slow for intraday DAX - all the action is to be found on the 1MIN chart - a lot of the moves fail or reverse spectacularly so you need to be in very quickly with a tight stop to make the risk/reward ratio viable - you really need to be on the tick charts or 1MIN for this...

HTH
c6

 

[daxdaytrader]

I trade 2-minute chart 7 period Bollingers with 2 sd. Set-ups are typically on hammer like bars.

ps. I am writing an eBook at the moment explaining how to trade the DAX.

 

[balugaa]

I wonder if it is possible to succesfully trade dax intraday without the use of any indicators, use only a 5 min bar chart, what's the opinion of the bigger Dax traders out there?

What about only using depth of market and time and sales as your guide, are there any succesful traders out there with this methodology?

Any answers greatly appreciated

Flytrade

you can use order flow, and money flow, mind you money flow is not your standard indicator its a measure of how much is dinero is flowing because bids are hit,, and how much because offers are being hit ..

together they give you a valueable insight into whats going on, downside is you probably have to program it yourself, and you will need realitme trade/book info. plus you will also need to need to run it for a month collecting stats, all hours, the idea is you see when money is going in and when money is going out.

or if you have big bucks you could do the dollar cost averaging, or whatever currency you use.

the indicators are all backward, the forward looking ones are all well weak, random walk and all. The only thing, is knowing where the money is going,

 

[flytrade]

I was just a bit curious I am only using bar charts (5min, 1 min when very volatile) + marketprofile (bigger perspective) and it seems to be working fine. Triedusing indicators but just get condratrictory signals. For me readeing DOM work the best especially when there is panic selling or panick buying like bomb days kind of stuff.

 

[RedDuke]

Hi Daxtrader,

When you finish your book, I, and many others, would be very interested in reading it. Please keep us informed.

Thanks,
redduke

 

[Dinos]

Hi flytrade, in answer to your question, probably not effectively, hey, but each to their own method. For what its worth, I generally trade the DAX using standard indicators , but have and do occasionally use Pivots,Bollingers and price movement on the 1 min chart, trading plan has to be robust and you need quick fingers for the trading button, (not recommended for the faint hearted). Like most things in trading, it can be as simple or complex as you feel comfortable with. Good trading.

 

[daxdaytrader]

Using volume spread analysis works nice on DAX, it's basically what I use along with some of my own techniques.

 

[insight2]

I must say first that I currently only paper trade.

Apart from that I think that with each indicator you put on your chart you reducing the amount of the usefull information that is presenting itself to you. Market is 3D-imensional fenomenon and all the indicators are trying to present that 3D stuff with 1D.

Additionally there is the lag. If one looks at a naked chart he can after a single bar say wheather market is in a trend, momentum or consolidation. I looked at all the indicators in this world and they need from 3 to 10 bars to tell one that trend transformed into the consolidation. Buy that time pattern trader would already be in the kitchen making coffee, with a profit in his account. Indicators only equate with a lost opportunities.

In essence, intraday markets represent human emotion, so same as when you are talking with somebodyin in a normal conversation would you like to respond after 15 minutes, instead of responding after 1 second?

On a top of all this, there is a danger of getting overinformed. You are focusing on a price action, you are focusing on the indicator action, you are focusing on news, you are thinking about your personal problems. In essence you are just adding to the clutter.

My 2p worth is that indicators are invented by brokers to confuse people and make them overtrade.

cheers, dejan

 

[options]

"In essence, intraday markets represent human emotion, so same as when you are talking with somebodyin in a normal conversation would you like to respond after 15 minutes, instead of responding after 1 second?"

In most cases I would like to wait the 15 mins. Espically when trading.
The dax is no different to any other index.

You can scalp just as well on a 1 min chart as you can on a 15 or an hour chart.

With or without indicators.

As with every single thing in life. It is not what you have but how you use it.

Put me next to a Carpenter, with the same tools and there would be no prizes for predicting whos' work would turn out better. Why should there be any difference. We both have the same equipment available to us?

The answer to the original question is yes. But it depends how good a carpenter(sic) you are.

 

[rols]

I wonder if it is possible to succesfully trade dax intraday without the use of any indicators, use only a 5 min bar chart, what's the opinion of the bigger Dax traders out there?

What about only using depth of market and time and sales as your guide, are there any succesful traders out there with this methodology?

Any answers greatly appreciated

Flytrade

Yes I'm sure a psychic could. I personally use volume candles, a tick chart, an hourly and daily chart with heavy use of fib analysis.

This may be of help...

http://www.tradertom.co.uk/articles.htm

Super female DAX trader

very nice too......

 

[One Eyed Shark]

Doesnt need a psychic to trade without indicators, wish I was one though.

Hands up I have never traded the Dax and solely trade the US futs, but everything you need is included in price, markets are the same the world over and the actions and reactions of price have all the clues.

Indicators distort your view ( IMHO)

 

[insight2]

Only time when indicators are of some use are:

1) When you are a vendor and you need something to wrap your "snake oil" in. If you have an indicator, than you have a product so you can put up a web site and scam people.

2) When you are developing a mechanical system: symply because the way computers "think" you have to convert a price action into some tangible values computers can react on. Yes, only in this second role indicators start to have some value.

cheers, dejan

 

[RedDuke]

Price has all info that one needs, but price could be a bit jumpy intra day and thus confusing. I use 1 indicator (CCI – relationship of price to its moving average) to get a clearer view. The other thing that tremendously helped me to achieve profitability is using volume charts.

 

[grantx]

Balugaa,

Is ‘money flow’ number of contracts bought/sold times the index?

For example, 3 sold at 7500 = 22,500, 6 bought at 7501 = 45,006. Later, 5 sold at 7525 = 37,625, 9 bought at 7526 = 67,734.

Is one looking at absolute and relative amounts for comparisons, and a possible indication of exhaustion/change of direction? Or am I way out?

Grant.

 

[daxdaytrader]

I shorted this morning at 7747 on the future and covered at 7717.

I used no indicators, the setup was a swing trade from yesterdays 4 day Market Profile with its point of control around 7745 area.

This also produced a nice buy signal at price I covered. A simple 30pt profit, low risk high probability trade.

 

[nkruger]

I trade 2-minute chart 7 period Bollingers with 2 sd. Set-ups are typically on hammer like bars.

ps. I am writing an eBook at the moment explaining how to trade the DAX.

DT, How's he e-book coming along ? I've been trading the Dow for a while now, and I've taken to watching (on the sidelines) the Dax during the day, on a side screen away from the main action in front of me.

NK

 

[cube101]

yeah id be interested in your ebook. let us know when you have something.