Trading Bureaux / Arcades

[rog1111]

Hi all

Although an experienced trader, I am new to this Trading Bureau concept & have a couple of simple questions. If I put down the 20K that they request upfront, say, when I start trading, whose money am I actually trading with, mine or theirs ? Through whose trading account, mine or theirs ? Is the 20K merely to cover the costs of my seat and /or losses ? All details on how this works would be appreciated before I start talking to these guys.

TIA
rog1111

 

[qaza]

You are trading your 20k, thru your trading acc.

The desk costs are for your acc. [not a seat ]

 

[herbie14]

out of interest i am thinking of starting an office in the city in london, you would need to back yourself but any profit is 100% yours you just pay to hire the office space and pc/desk etc, is this something you may be interested in?

 

[rog1111]

You are trading your 20k, thru your trading acc.

The desk costs are for your acc. [not a seat ]

So the only real advantages are better connectivity in some cases, eg to LIFFE, lower commissions, knowledgeable people around (hopefully) and maybe training, although presumably this will often be extra ?

Thanks
rog1111

 

[rog1111]

out of interest i am thinking of starting an office in the city in london, you would need to back yourself but any profit is 100% yours you just pay to hire the office space and pc/desk etc, is this something you may be interested in?

Herbie, yes I'd love to work in an office rather than from home. Are you planning on having any faster connections than ADSL/broadband ? I'd prefer Sussex by the Sea !

rog1111

 

[herbie14]

dependant on costs either 2mb braodband or if people were willing to pay more a leased line can be considered

 

[London prisoner]

Hi all

If I put down the 20K that they request upfront, say, when I start trading, whose money am I actually trading with, mine or theirs ? Through whose trading account, mine or theirs ?
TIA
rog1111

LOL this is a brokerage firm where you will be trading your own account, you give them money so you will trade your money

 

[spreadboy]

Can you recommend a decent prop firm for a newbie, I'm familiar with all the names but I would like someone with experience to advise me?

I'd be putting up my own cash and would need training etc. looking to trade futures on TT

 

[TWI]

I work out of Trading Connections. www.tradingconnections.co.uk
If you put up your cash all you pay is desk fee and transaction costs starting at 90p/rt. Desk fee is GBP1350/mnth. You can come here and sit on a training system for free, it gives you actual market prices but your trades do not reach real market. The trainer algorith is a bit generous but it allows you to get used to the market without putting real money down. Trading connections is only the place i work, there are many others all with differing fee structure. I found this place to be good because the costs are low and the people are excellent. I commute everyday from SW London to SE so it is not in any way conveinient. Please be aware i am just a punter I have no vested interest in any one arcade above another. Shop around but beware of anybody charging > 100p/rt and >2k/month for your desk. If you put up your own capital nobody should ask for a split of Pnl. There are plenty of sharks out there so beware.

 

[herbie14]

Hi
I may be opening an office in Liverpool Street for a select few people to trade there own account with there own money, i have space for around 10 people costs should be for the desk pc etc £500 per month, slightly more for a leased line...
i will be providing a small office for serious people

 

[TWI]

Are you providing systems? or just a desk with an Ethernet lead?

 

[herbie14]

i will provide
desk, dual screen pc's etc everything you need except your charting software and brokerage platform..

 

[jeanfourcade]

:

Hi all

Although an experienced trader, I am new to this Trading Bureau concept & have a couple of simple questions. If I put down the 20K that they request upfront, say, when I start trading, whose money am I actually trading with, mine or theirs ? Through whose trading account, mine or theirs ? Is the 20K merely to cover the costs of my seat and /or losses ? All details on how this works would be appreciated before I start talking to these guys.

TIA
rog1111

Hi Mate. It's your money which is at stake, not theirs.
You come up with 20K, they add say another 20K. Then you have your 40K margin for trading the corresponding size, on a strict daily basis. But from those 40K, they probably gonna debit 2K (ish) on the first day for monthly desk fees. Then you'll start trading, and the brokerage is going to be debited out of the remaining 38K.
Scenario 1: Imagine you drop 10 K the fisrt month, including roundtrips (brokerage): your account will be down to 28K, but they gonna keep a sharp eye as 20 of those 38K are theirs, and the missing 12K, well, are yours. Your trading size will be accordingly reduced, and you'll trade with reduced power.
Scenario 2: Now, if instead of losing 10K you make 10K the fisrt month, the account shows a balance of 48K (still after deduction of brokerage fees). But they probably share the profits with you, say on a 70% basis in your favor (Schneider applies that rate). You'll have made a net profit of 7K, while the company will have made 2K (desk fees) + 3K (trading profits)+ whatever you paid in brokerage (I personally pay £100/day trading on indices); we're looking here at about 7 K for the company.

Conclusion:
Fair ? you put up your own money on the line, effectively share about 50% of the profit, and incur 100% of the risk. Don't get me wrong: it's a way of getting more margin in order to trade size, but pay attention to those overhead costs (desk fees + brokerage). If you want to trade your own dough, do it on a 100% basis (you'll face 100% of the risk but reap 100% od the reward after costs). And get in touch with a many trading bureaux you can find as some will let you trade fully backed (cut from 40 to 80%).
Good luck, and don't throw your money: never forget that we never work FOR those companys, we are their CLIENTS.
bybyby
Jean ([email protected])

 

[rog1111]

jeanfourcade

Welcome to T2W, and thanks for the reply, although more than a year has passed since posting !

I decided a long time ago that a local co-operative office with some trader mates was a far better option for me than an arcade, not so much due to costs, although that was part of it, but more a question of my temperament, which doesn't suit a scalping methodology very well (which most arcades seem to employ).

cheers
rog1111

 

[Anonymous]

It's an interesting concept, the feel of a professional office, the environment, the ambiance, the colleagues etc. But one might as well buy a simple computer system, pay the phone and internet charges, at home, open a web-based brokerage account, or, have a pay-per-use instant office by popping up at the nearest Easyeverything at any branch from New York to Nicosia. Or, get a Nokia with GPRS and carry his office with him from Edinburgh to Sydney. The way technology is advancing, a portable office may be a better thing to look out for.

 

[rog1111]

anon

I have found that mixing with other traders is hugely beneficial. Trading can be quite a lonely business, and it's easy to become reclusive.

rog1111

It's an interesting concept, the feel of a professional office, the environment, the ambiance, the colleagues etc. But one might as well buy a simple computer system, pay the phone and internet charges, at home, open a web-based brokerage account, or, have a pay-per-use instant office by popping up at the nearest Easyeverything at any branch from New York to Nicosia. Or, get a Nokia with GPRS and carry his office with him from Edinburgh to Sydney. The way technology is advancing, a portable office may be a better thing to look out for.

 

[Anonymous]

rog1111

I agree. But it's not easy mixing with traders, not many good traders around.

 

[Verno]

rog1111, search the arcades section of this site as there is a new firm setting up for traders with their own money. They are charging everything at cost (ie not for profit) and it is a bunch of traders who are fed up with being charged through the roof for round trips and desk fees. Off the top of my head I can't remember their name but they are on this site somewhere.

In addition there are firms like Refco who offer competitive rates I believe. I am no longer working in an arcade but I have friends in them and if you shop around with that kind of deposit you should get decent costs etc.

 

[rog1111]

anon

I couldn't agree more ! I think the social contact is more important for experienced traders , as they stick to their own methods, and are not necessarily searching for new ones.

rog1111

........not many good traders around.

 

[rog1111]

Verno

Thanks, but we already have well advanced plans for an office for self-funded traders here in East Sussex. Although local to me, my contract volumes (ie total commissions) just don't justify Refco's fees

rog1111

rog1111, search the arcades section of this site as there is a new firm setting up for traders with their own money. They are charging everything at cost (ie not for profit) and it is a bunch of traders who are fed up with being charged through the roof for round trips and desk fees. Off the top of my head I can't remember their name but they are on this site somewhere.

In addition there are firms like Refco who offer competitive rates I believe. I am no longer working in an arcade but I have friends in them and if you shop around with that kind of deposit you should get decent costs etc.