Trading Arcades have had their day

[weakpunter]

Weakpunter,
I am fine thanks, I hope the markets are being kind to you!
You are right, but I just cannot stand people saying "Fairvalue clear Rosenthal so my money is safe" when it is not true. Your risk is with Fairvalue, Fairvalue have the benefit of the protection of Rosenthal you, as a trader, do not.
If Fairvalue blow up you lose your money plain and simple. I have no idea why the lessons of ICA and Griffin get so easily forgotten, Griffin cleared Fortis Bank, but all the Griffin traders lost money because they had not opened clearing accounts with Fortis, they had opened them with Griffin.
Sorry I will get off my high horse now but it is a trick many smaller clearing companies have used for years, they will look you in the eye and say, "we clear HSBC, Goldman’s, JP Morgan so your money is safe" whilst not a complete lie it is a compete distortion of the truth.
The simple fact is whoever's name is at the top of the contract you sign, that is where your money is, how big is their balance sheet, how much risk are they taking on, would you be better paying a little more and contracting directly with a big bank or institution and do not forget the lessons of the past.

Sorry Parky I beg to differ but its not a distortion,I dont want to seem biased just because a friend has opened this firm up but Ive looked into Fairvalue as Iam on the verge of opening a small account with them and their paperwork is all RCG and if you open a retail account with them, you are basically opening a account with Rosenthal and hence are fully protected by the NFA/CFTC exactly the same way as if you opened an account with a number of well known brokering firms like Globalfutures/Sweet etc etc who are also clearing Rosenthal so sorry to have to say your wrong on that front, with regards to prop trading with them then yes you fall into the same category as any number of London based arcades like Tower/Sigma and a dozen others who if things go wrong will blow up like anyone else and may I note are not FSA reg, not saying thats great but that hasnt stopped them from procuring hundreds of traders.
But the bottom line is that I have to correct you in saying that opening a retail account with Fairvalue , you will be fully protected and will not lose your funds even in the event of Fairvalue failing.

 

[Parky]

Weakpunter,
OK in which case what is the relationship with Fairvalue?
As I said if you are signing paperwork with Rosenthal Collins and you are opening a direct clearing relationship with them why do you need the Fairvalue brand at all?
Rosenthal used to have a locals operation on the LIFFE floor and also has a team trading via the Fortis Arcade under Fred Bowyers for a while thereafter so they are a company I know.
But thanks for the heads up, it sounds like a different set up altogether and if it is a direct relationship with Rosenthal then as you say the balance sheet will look healthy.

 

[weakpunter]

Weakpunter,
OK in which case what is the relationship with Fairvalue?
As I said if you are signing paperwork with Rosenthal Collins and you are opening a direct clearing relationship with them why do you need the Fairvalue brand at all?
Rosenthal used to have a locals operation on the LIFFE floor and also has a team trading via the Fortis Arcade under Fred Bowyers for a while thereafter so they are a company I know.
But thanks for the heads up, it sounds like a different set up altogether and if it is a direct relationship with Rosenthal then as you say the balance sheet will look healthy.

Parky ,

Very simple for the same reason you need Schneider trading rather than going to MFglobal................. you will get a better deal with Fairvalue than going to Rosenthal directly the same way you´d get a better deal with STA than with Mfglobal and again you´d get a better brokering or clearing rate from xconnect rather than going directly to Fortis, additonaly one of the guys in charge there had a lot of bro clients that he brought over to RCG from his client base hence allowing him to receive a marketable deal which he could then pass on to fairvalue´s clients.

 

[Parky]

weakpunter,
Then you are contracting with Fairvalue or are you saying that Fairvalue is in fact an introducing broker to Rosenthal?
The difference being if you go through Schneider then you are contracting with Schneider and your risk is with Schneider and you get no protection from MF global at all despite the fact that is who Schneider is clearing.
That is the point I was making, MF Global give no protection to anyone signing with Schneider, what they do give is protection to Schneider the entity if MF global goes under or if another unrelated clients of MF Global goes under.

 

[weakpunter]

Parky, Sorry didnt make myself clear, you are quite correct if you open an account with STA or the others you are contracting with them and the risk remains with you and STA as an example, what I was trying to get at was the fact that it would be cheaper to go through Fairvalue than deal direct with Rosenthal as Fairvalue has established business with them already and can pass on trading commission costs cheaper , and yes they are an introducing broker much the same way as Globalfutures,amp,mirus,proactive,variance are and the list goes on , that hasnt stopped global opening over 19,000 accounts, hence in terms of saving on trading commissions and customer service that would be the reasoning in going with Fairvalue rather than contracting a big name directly .

 

[Arcade Fire]

Hi Guys,
Anyone know anything about trading Arcades in Dublin?
I've been renting a desk here in Dublin for the last few years in an Arcade I won't name, but think I'm
being charged huge desk fees per month. (approx 4K Euro). Im being charged 1500 Euro for X- Trader Pro itself as part of this p/m. Does anyone know if this is a hugh mark up?
A lot of traders in here are sick of being taken advantage of. Anyone know of alternatives in the Area.

 

[meanreversion]

You must be making a lot of money trading if you can afford EUR 4k on desk fees alone .. !

 

[omid81]

hi guys,


im trading bunds doing 10 lots and do about 5000 round turns a month and currently using gni as my clearer. ive met with marex financial who say i will do better on their trading floors because of the environment that i will be in and i will also pick up tips from the experienced trader there.

this does make sense to me but it will cost 1500 more in than trading from home.

one trader friend of mine who worked in numerous arcades told me that everyone there just minds their own business and dont help anyone out or give any tips or strategy ideas to junior guys. it is every man for themselves over there.

is this the case?

does anyone think itll be beneficial in anyway to be on a professional trading floor?
does anyone thinks its worth it?

 

[D70]

hi guys,


im trading bunds doing 10 lots and do about 5000 round turns a month and currently using gni as my clearer. ive met with marex financial who say i will do better on their trading floors because of the environment that i will be in and i will also pick up tips from the experienced trader there.

this does make sense to me but it will cost 1500 more in than trading from home.

one trader friend of mine who worked in numerous arcades told me that everyone there just minds their own business and dont help anyone out or give any tips or strategy ideas to junior guys. it is every man for themselves over there.

is this the case?

does anyone think itll be beneficial in anyway to be on a professional trading floor?
does anyone thinks its worth it?

Yes
Stay at home. They just want more turns.

The only caveat is:
There might be benefits if you are lucky to get a good guy next to you but otherwise it is dog eat dog. So worth it... no. They are running a business after all and want bums on seats (to pay the office overheads).

As per this thread. All the advantages arcades used to have can be got at home now.

 

[omid81]

thanks d70.

i am happy with my strategies at the moment. the only prob i am having is with the psychological aspect of trading. i have improved drastically, but am still getting out of trades too early. that is my biggest problem.

does anyone have any suggestions of how i can improve on this? ie books, videos etc.....

 

[meanreversion]

omid81, what's your general trading strategy, is it a mean reversion/channel approach or do you trade on breakouts?

 

[omid81]

i am a scalper. my stops are 2 ticks and i look for 5 ticks in the market. i only get in when i think a move is about to happen. my target is 10 ticks a day.

what do u think of this strategy?

 

[jules190]

hi guys,


im trading bunds doing 10 lots and do about 5000 round turns a month and currently using gni as my clearer. ive met with marex financial who say i will do better on their trading floors because of the environment that i will be in and i will also pick up tips from the experienced trader there.

this does make sense to me but it will cost 1500 more in than trading from home.

one trader friend of mine who worked in numerous arcades told me that everyone there just minds their own business and dont help anyone out or give any tips or strategy ideas to junior guys. it is every man for themselves over there.

is this the case?

does anyone think itll be beneficial in anyway to be on a professional trading floor?
does anyone thinks its worth it?

What is the total cost that Marex quoted you for desk and what do you get for that? Also, what round trip costs did they quote you?

 

[omid81]

2200 cqg and tt.

74 cents for round turns.

Are you guys all saying that its much better to trade from home instead of on a trading floor? What about big guys ie guys doing 100 lot, do they feel comfortable doing their 100 lot at home? im sure desk costs for them is no issue and they are thinking how can they maximise their ticks?

What is the chance of me picking up tips in any of the arcades from some of the more experienced guys?

And how do i know what european important data is coming out ie. zew survey or when trichet is talking? Is there a website to go on to get this info ie bloomberg calendar tells me american news. What about European news? Is there anything for that?

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[pboyles]

You can subscribe to a squawk service like RAN squawk for news. You also have to add travel costs to your arcade costs. For me that would be another 400 a month. For the likes of me doing 2 or 3 trades a day it really isn't worth it unless I was really getting into very large size.

I considered the possibility of learning from others but I was told that a lot of the traders are not experts and in many cases are no better than guys on here who sit at home and trade.

 

[cristiano]

Interesting point - I have never worked in a trading environment and feel that learning and trading from home means you're missing out on something. Even if, as you say, the guy sat next to you may be no expert. At least you're in an environment totally focused on trading.

My trading's getting better but I kind of get the feeling that even when/if I get consistent enough over a long period of time, I will still be missing something not having had contact with other traders outside of this forum. If you get what I mean.

Do you guys think that that contact is important?

 

[pboyles]

Interesting point - I have never worked in a trading environment and feel that learning and trading from home means you're missing out on something. Even if, as you say, the guy sat next to you may be no expert. At least you're in an environment totally focused on trading.

My trading's getting better but I kind of get the feeling that even when/if I get consistent enough over a long period of time, I will still be missing something not having had contact with other traders outside of this forum. If you get what I mean.

Do you guys think that that contact is important?

I dont think it would do any harm but is it worth 2500 a month to you?

 

[xtf]

Interesting point - I have never worked in a trading environment and feel that learning and trading from home means you're missing out on something. Even if, as you say, the guy sat next to you may be no expert. At least you're in an environment totally focused on trading.

My trading's getting better but I kind of get the feeling that even when/if I get consistent enough over a long period of time, I will still be missing something not having had contact with other traders outside of this forum. If you get what I mean.

Do you guys think that that contact is important?

when the guy next to you starts swearing there's often a good trade to be done!

 

[cristiano]

I don't know, that's my point. Maybe seeing how the business works from the inside adds sufficiently to your edge that it's worth 2500 a month.

Would be interesting to see what kind of percentage of people here have had experience working in a trading environment and how many have only ever traded from home.

 

[cristiano]

when the guy next to you starts swearing there's often a good trade to be done!

Ha! When the guy next to me starts swearing you know it's time to take cover.