Traders personality traits

[Mike Kshemaraja]

I have been puzzling over these questions, what do you think?


1) Why do you think people want to be traders?

2) And do you think those same reasons make 90 % of them fail?

 

[robster970]

1) I suspect that the primary motive to trade is to facilitate the fantasy that exists about trading, that with a moderate amount of effort, you can make a disproportionately large amount of money.

2) This 'get rich quick' attitude is in a large part fuelled by the value system that we live in which is shaped by our fallibilities. In order to have any success, you need to overcome such problems as:

a) Changing your relationship with money
b) Letting go of the need to be right
c) Fear of success
d) Fear of failure
e) Validation of self through wealth
f) Looking for meaning in life through increased spending power

As most people will not be prepared to confront even one of these examples, never mind their own personal and exhaustive catalogue of predispositions that will ultimately lead to failure, they realise the pursuit is too difficult and then fail or give in.

Ultimately the drop-out rate is so high because people are not prepared to make the investment to become good. People will always go for the easy option.

 

[darkcider]

I have been puzzling over these questions, what do you think?


1) Why do you think people want to be traders?

2) And do you think those same reasons make 90 % of them fail?

A1) Financial and entrepreneurial reasons.

A2) People fail at all kinds of things. I really want to be a lucky outlier, not so much a trader. Trading as a job doesn't interest me in the slightest.

 

[Mike Kshemaraja]

1) I suspect that the primary motive to trade is to facilitate the fantasy that exists about trading, that with a moderate amount of effort, you can make a disproportionately large amount of money.

2) This 'get rich quick' attitude is in a large part fuelled by the value system that we live in which is shaped by our fallibilities. In order to have any success, you need to overcome such problems as:

a) Changing your relationship with money
b) Letting go of the need to be right
c) Fear of success
d) Fear of failure
e) Validation of self through wealth
f) Looking for meaning in life through increased spending power

As most people will not be prepared to confront even one of these examples, never mind their own personal and exhaustive catalogue of predispositions that will ultimately lead to failure, they realise the pursuit is too difficult and then fail or give in.

Ultimately the drop-out rate is so high because people are not prepared to make the investment to become good. People will always go for the easy option.

Nice one.

 

[NVP]

i have been puzzling over these questions, what do you think?


1) why do you think people want to be traders?
ego, peer respect, greed.....

2) and do you think those same reasons make 90 % of them fail?
ego, peer respect, greed.....

n

 

[NVP]

.........and if I had a £1 for every Doctor,Pilot,Accountant etc who tells me they will be successful because of their "professional" training I would be a rich rich man

Jees....
N

 

[darkcider]

1) I suspect that the primary motive to trade is to facilitate the fantasy that exists about trading, that with a moderate amount of effort, you can make a disproportionately large amount of money.


Mmmm, i understand what you are saying, but the irony is that it actually must be, or has been, very easy indeed for some to make disproportionately large amounts of money. And so the story gets around.

 

[robster970]

Mmmm, i understand what you are saying, but the irony is that it actually must be, or has been, very easy indeed for some to make disproportionately large amounts of money. And so the story gets around.

It's as you hinted - those might just be outliers. It's easy to think about the possibility of success and do little to improve the probability of success. Buy the dream and sell the reality.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Meanwhile, 1 in 10 on Wall Street are psychopaths...

One Out Of Every Ten Wall Street Employees Is A Psychopath, Say Researchers

...actually when you read a dictionary definition of pyschopathy, that statistic doesn't sound far wrong!

"a truly self-absorbed individual with no conscience or feeling for others and for whom social rules have no meaning"

 

[Mike Kshemaraja]

Meanwhile, 1 in 10 on Wall Street are psychopaths...

One Out Of Every Ten Wall Street Employees Is A Psychopath, Say Researchers

...actually when you read a dictionary definition of pyschopathy, that statistic doesn't sound far wrong!

"a truly self-absorbed individual with no conscience or feeling for others and for whom social rules have no meaning"

LOL. That movie with Christian Bale, coincidentally I watched it just last night.

 

[VielGeld]

But psychos are people too!

I'd take that article with a grain of salt. Business is not a nice place, and it often requires that you make decisions that you have to act on immediately. "Nice guys" will never thrive in this kind of environment because even though they know it's the right decision, they can't follow through.

Not to say we need the psychos, just that maybe the nature of doing business develops some of these traits such that "psychopaths" are over-represented.

 

[EulerFourier]

I agree with most of what has been said. I would add that many people become traders because they see it as a way to be independent. They have humble beginnings and don't really want to be rock star millionaires.

I think 90% fail because it is a business of taking your opponents money, and some people in the business are very good at their job.

 

[MoonRocket]

................
I think 90% fail because it is a business of taking your opponents money......

That is a very aggressive way of viewing it.
Person A buys a stock for $10 sells it to person B for $20. Person B sells to C for $40.
No one has lost, in fact they have all doubled their money.
Very simplistic I know.
Many in the market are not there for a profit on their "trade".
Governments, manufacturers, banks and hedgers buying or selling currencies.
I view it as doing my little bit to provide liquidity but I'm seeking a reward for doing so.
There are some parallels with poker but in poker for every winner there are a losers,
but I don't believe this is so in the market.

 

[darkcider]

I think 90% fail because it is a business of taking your opponents money, and some people in the business are very good at their job.

Is this a, John Wayne, quote? True Grit, maybe? Retailers are not market educated or experienced when first dabble, so it stands to reason that failure, at least first time around, is inevitable. Saying this, there are some very clever people who are trained at prop/arcades that don't fair any better at the end of it all.

What'smore crazy, some self taught retailers think that they are able to successfully coach and mentor other retailers

As the Kinks said, 'it's a mixed up muddled up shook up world, except for Lola'.

 

[EulerFourier]

That is a very aggressive way of viewing it.
Person A buys a stock for $10 sells it to person B for $20. Person B sells to C for $40.
No one has lost, in fact they have all doubled their money.
Very simplistic I know.
Many in the market are not there for a profit on their "trade".
Governments, manufacturers, banks and hedgers buying or selling currencies.
I view it as doing my little bit to provide liquidity but I'm seeking a reward for doing so.
There are some parallels with poker but in poker for every winner there are a losers,
but I don't believe this is so in the market.

Yes, I know how it works.....I didn't say it was a zero-sum game either. I bet you trade forex with a retail broker, who are you providing liquidity to? The answer is nobody, you have no connection to the markets at all. You view it however you want but that doesn't make it any different from what it actually is.

You should both read "Trading and Exchanges: Market Microstructure for Practitioners" by Larry Harris, to understand where you fit in in the food chain.

Hint: Right at the bottom.

 

[MoonRocket]

^^Bet you had a losing week too.

 

[EulerFourier]

No, made money last week

 

[MoonRocket]

No, made money last week

That's good. Just a bit burnt out then?
Here is a link the shows how Marketmakers contribute to liquidity.
You will only need to read the first few pages.
http://orderbookfx.com/downloadmanual.aspx

 

[EulerFourier]

Please MoonRocket, not more orderbookfx nonsense... I know how market makers contribute liquidity, but there are no market makers in the retail forex market. There is no central exchange, how could there be market makers? All there is is a bucket shop that acts as the counterparty to all of its clients "trades". You aren't really even trading to be honest, your just making a bet with the "broker" on the future movement of a time series.

 

[MoonRocket]

Oh well Euler, you keep your view of the market and how disturbed you are over the likes of the Flipper and how he destroyed families and caused their children to starve and yet you admire him. Everyone out there is trying to rip you off, yet you are just as keen to rip them off............I don't know how you can live with yourself.