Top Ten Trading Methodologies

[gtatix]

Could we have some of the top contributors offer a list. I read a few offerings at various threads but haven't had the time to read what could be among the best information for detailed and specific trading systems/methodologies.
I know there's a lot of emphasis on "psychology." Trading psychology could be considered a "constant" in a hypothetical forex equation. The "psychology constant" would be given a value of "one" - making it inert within said equation. This neutral variable could be attained by having NO PERSONAL INTERVENTION. Specific YES and NO answers to logic type equations would be used to trigger a position.
This "psychological factor" is overrated as far as I am concerned. A properly programmed system HAS NO PSYCHOLOGY. A trader simply needs to be logical. If the math and logic - fuzzy or otherwise - says BUY, you freaking buy. Don't think! The psychological factor becomes inconsequential. The type of "top ten" I am asking to be organized here would be in a readable and perhaps programmable format.

Incomplete example (verbal - I suck at programming as I have very little knowledge of how to do it!):
"Enter a trade long when the 10EMA and 10SMA are both above both the 50EMA and 50SMA and the centre bollinger band. Bollinger bands are set at "such and such'.....etc. Also enter only when the RSI14 is above 50 and so on. Stop loss is set at 27 pips below entry for long positions and 21 pips above entry for short positions. For 10 minute chart entries, set a limit WATCH on long positions only if the 4 hour chart is showing a retracement as per the slow stochastic of 8,3,3 and......, AND only after a 30 pip gain has been made. Allow the 30 pip gain to be reduced to 25 pips as the actual limit and allow for greater gains by having the pip gains increased by 10 before moving the exit limit up to 35 pips for gains of up to 50 pips. Once at 50 pips change the limit watch to a limit setting of 80% of the overall gain....and on and on and on"
This could go on for several more sentences. Keep in mind this is a purely hypothetical method to offer the type of detail and clarity I would expect of an excellent system/method. I will ultimately devise a few systems - or at least release systems I find good - or great - once sorted from the many I have at hand. In the mean time, I ask that this be offered by some of the seasoned members - who know a hell of a lot more than I - within this ONE THREAD that can be easily accessed by everyone.
Thanks.

 

[grantx]

Gtatix,

Why should anyone reveal their extensive knowledge of winning systems, in a programmable language, possibly after years of blood and sweat research and considerable expense just because someone asks for it?

Grant.

 

[gtatix]

Gtatix,

Why should anyone reveal their extensive knowledge of winning systems, in a programmable language, possibly after years of blood and sweat research and considerable expense just because someone asks for it?

Grant.

Better question Grant;
Why not?
Here are some possible answers Grant:
Too greedy? think you might lose some coin when the trillion-dollar-market dips because I bought a mini-lot?
You can move along and sweat elsewhere Grant. Be advised that you can read my systems and the ones I find in the future as I am able to put them up; even if I think you're selfish. Your attitude is A-typical of many shallow people. Do you pass traffic jams on the shoulder Grant?

 

[grantx]

Gtatix,

If I want something doing, I expect to pay for it; if I do something, I expect to be paid for it .Not neccessarily in cash terms but there has to be reciprocation (or potential). So how would you reciprocate?

Grant.

 

[nine]

The hilarity is well deserved ... but this is Trade 2 Win ... so I will answer the question.

You can find what you want. Possibly at your local library. If not at Amazon.

The book "The Ultimate Trading Guide" by John Hill et al will give you what you want. You may also want to get "Trading Systems that Work" or something later (read the reviews) by Stridsman. Enjoy.

Good trading.

 

[mikeeg]

Gtatix,

There is nothing anal about this site, but your initial post will inevitably get peoples' backs up since you are asking for an awful lot of info for potentially not much in return.

Consider also, that even if peeps reveal their trading methodologies to you, why should they work for you. I've often found that what works wonderfully well for someone, doesn't mean its going to work wonderfully well for you. I've also found that the best trading methodologies found are the ones you come up with yourself as it matches your style of trading.

Furthermore, what you have described in your first post sounds purely mechanical ("Enter a trade long when the 10EMA and 10SMA are both above both the 50EMA and 50SMA and the centre bollinger band. Bollinger bands are set at "such and such'.....etc). Any decent trading methodology I know of has a healthy dose of discretion to it using price action. You would have been better asking for the top ten list of price action methods....you'll find that more useful.

Oh and finally, just search and do you own research. It may take more work and lots of research but I guarantee that you will learn more from it, rather than just copying/manipulating someones system for your own benefit. If you're asking for something like this on a plate....that's GREED...and we all know what happens to the people that are greedy....


...they end up in the 95% statistic.

 

[Reversal]

Could we have some of the top contributors offer a list. I read a few offerings at various threads but haven't had the time to read what could be among the best information for detailed and specific trading systems/methodologies.
I know there's a lot of emphasis on "psychology." Trading psychology could be considered a "constant" in a hypothetical forex equation. The "psychology constant" would be given a value of "one" - making it inert within said equation. This neutral variable could be attained by having NO PERSONAL INTERVENTION. Specific YES and NO answers to logic type equations would be used to trigger a position.
This "psychological factor" is overrated as far as I am concerned. A properly programmed system HAS NO PSYCHOLOGY. A trader simply needs to be logical. If the math and logic - fuzzy or otherwise - says BUY, you freaking buy. Don't think! The psychological factor becomes inconsequential. The type of "top ten" I am asking to be organized here would be in a readable and perhaps programmable format.

Incomplete example (verbal - I suck at programming as I have very little knowledge of how to do it!):
"Enter a trade long when the 10EMA and 10SMA are both above both the 50EMA and 50SMA and the centre bollinger band. Bollinger bands are set at "such and such'.....etc. Also enter only when the RSI14 is above 50 and so on. Stop loss is set at 27 pips below entry for long positions and 21 pips above entry for short positions. For 10 minute chart entries, set a limit WATCH on long positions only if the 4 hour chart is showing a retracement as per the slow stochastic of 8,3,3 and......, AND only after a 30 pip gain has been made. Allow the 30 pip gain to be reduced to 25 pips as the actual limit and allow for greater gains by having the pip gains increased by 10 before moving the exit limit up to 35 pips for gains of up to 50 pips. Once at 50 pips change the limit watch to a limit setting of 80% of the overall gain....and on and on and on"
This could go on for several more sentences. Keep in mind this is a purely hypothetical method to offer the type of detail and clarity I would expect of an excellent system/method. I will ultimately devise a few systems - or at least release systems I find good - or great - once sorted from the many I have at hand. In the mean time, I ask that this be offered by some of the seasoned members - who know a hell of a lot more than I - within this ONE THREAD that can be easily accessed by everyone.
Thanks.

LOL! This is one of the biggest fallacies that traders assume about trading. You can't remove emotion entirely from trading (at least not yet) or you will never be successful.

While it is true that a person needs to remove emotional reaction to their trading so as not to follow the crowd, you need some emotion involved for a specific reason.

Let me tell you a secret, as a successful trader I have many a time recognized that the market was going to do something just before it actually did it, which prevented a big loss or made a big profit. At that time I couldn't have told what, I just knew. It wasn't that I was psychic; it was just that after years of trading I recognized a subtlety on the subconscious level and the way I knew was because an emotional reaction caused me to stand up and take notice. In many cases the subtle aspects that transcend the human subconscious to the conscious remains beyond the scope of definition, so it isn't even possible to explain to a programmer what it is that makes the difference in so many cases.

Over time I have been able to define many of them and show others examples, but the variables and the variety remain too great to even begin considering an attempt at a system.

In my life I have seen so many systems, both sophisticated and simple. All of them fail at some point. Times change and so do markets. Systems are static and even the one’s with fuzzy logic can’t keep up. Nothing compares to the human mind in its ability to recognize and process the variables of the market. Someday it will be different, but it hasn’t arrived yet. Likely when it does trading as it is will come to an end because all everyone has to do is plug into that system.

The best you can hope for are tools that give you an edge in trading and then develop your own skill in using them.

I am sure some will disagree with me here, but most of you who have been trading for any length of time and with any success know exactly what I am talking about. It isn’t a matter of removing emotion from your trading. It is a matter of controlling emotion, rather than allowing it to control you.

MJP

 

[gtatix]

The hilarity is well deserved ... but this is Trade 2 Win ... so I will answer the question.

You can find what you want. Possibly at your local library. If not at Amazon.

The book "The Ultimate Trading Guide" by John Hill et al will give you what you want. You may also want to get "Trading Systems that Work" or something later (read the reviews) by Stridsman. Enjoy.

Good trading.

Thanks. I actually have a lot to read already. I have weeks or months of reading. In fact I never stop reading. I always like more info. The problem is that for every 20 things you read, 1 may be of use. This is very time consuming - but doable. I thought that there were perhaps people of similar interest here. Not people of self interest.
I am mostly interested in things that are not too heavily delved into here. I have posted some of this information and links within a few other threads. I am already comfortable with several methods of trading but am always looking for more or potentially better. The attacks came so quickly. I shouldn't have been surprised though. This is typical of the FEW within many forums in fact - not just trading forums - who think they are cooler - oh yea man - cooler man - than the rest of us. Usually based on the 'primitive man' low IQ, clan perception that since I am new and they have been here for much longer, they are better people and/or traders than I. So amateur and 'Lord of the Flies"-like! I just arrived at THIS forum recently - not the planet. The point of this thread was not specifically for me. I have already found many "systems" within the forum that may work well. I am on my own personal trek contacting other-than-forum menaces to dig deeper into where I am convinced speculation has the highest potential for success. With the use of neural networks and genetic algorithms. I am currently trying to get more research on Bolzmann machines. Testing out-of-the box methodology is something I enjoy. An example of "out-of-the-box methodology" is the testing of systems during intense solar activity. Amazingly it appears that Dr Katz found that such activity ended in some very interesting results within the markets. This is what I do - among other things. I was actually offering THIS thread for anyone who has offered such methodologies or systems amongst other threads; to have a sort of reference for anyone looking and wishing to share. I would offer that there are dozens - perhaps thousands - of ways of gaining money with speculating techniques. I have read a lot of stories about people who lose. I don't get it. They must be doing something very wrong. If people want to share - I will not lose sleep over it. I am sickened by the attitude. I am convinced that those who are making the most noise - have **** to offer!:-0

 

[gtatix]

Gtatix,

There is nothing anal about this site, but your initial post will inevitably get peoples' backs up since you are asking for an awful lot of info for potentially not much in return.

Consider also, that even if peeps reveal their trading methodologies to you, why should they work for you. I've often found that what works wonderfully well for someone, doesn't mean its going to work wonderfully well for you. I've also found that the best trading methodologies found are the ones you come up with yourself as it matches your style of trading.

Furthermore, what you have described in your first post sounds purely mechanical ("Enter a trade long when the 10EMA and 10SMA are both above both the 50EMA and 50SMA and the centre bollinger band. Bollinger bands are set at "such and such'.....etc). Any decent trading methodology I know of has a healthy dose of discretion to it using price action. You would have been better asking for the top ten list of price action methods....you'll find that more useful.

Oh and finally, just search and do you own research. It may take more work and lots of research but I guarantee that you will learn more from it, rather than just copying/manipulating someones system for your own benefit. If you're asking for something like this on a plate....that's GREED...and we all know what happens to the people that are greedy....


...they end up in the 95% statistic.

I appreciate your input and I agree. It is interesting to see what is out there though. It is potentially conducive to share what one "has" in that others may be able to work with it and figure something out. I have clearly got a ball rolling here. I understand how it could sound like I am looking for a free system and that I am a total jamoke with NO knowledge or ability to do my own research. This is not the case. I will not lose sleep over this not working out. I don't need systems. I like to see what there is out there and think it would be a good idea to have - within a "community" such as this a focal thread so to speak where WE ALL could contribute something once items are put on the table. I guess not. Not until I make the first offer. Which I will in time. I now ask that NO ONE offer a system. I will offer something in the next few days - when I get around to it. Not because I really want to drop what I am doing that behooves myself. But to make a point.

 

[gtatix]

Gtatix,

Why should anyone reveal their extensive knowledge of winning systems, in a programmable language, possibly after years of blood and sweat research and considerable expense just because someone asks for it?

Grant.

I replied to this but it didn't appear. I agree and disagree with you. In a nutshell, some give, some take, some share. There was once a bartering system amongst communities. It worked. I was looking to work WITH people and potentially good systems that needed tweaking. The BIG question is....is there really a system that WORKS? I would surmise that most need tweeking or babysitting. I was curious to see what is out there. I have seen a lot. I haven't even been able to test all I have seen and have access to extensively. I have information that gives + results - at least that is what the stats that come with the information show via unbiased data. If you don't want to "share" no big deal. But what is with the attitude of many of the bashers here. I think they are bored and pissed that they are losing money. If they had something to offer and they were decent citizens of the world, they wouldn't be so rude.

 

[counter_violent]

Thread tidied up...lets keep it clean and on track.

cv

 

[Mathemagician]

counter_violent, I will respect your judgement as always, and my apologies for contributing to your workload.

jj

 

[counter_violent]

counter_violent, I will respect your judgement as always, and my apologies for contributing to your workload.

jj

It's not all work.....we do have fun also...anyway no need for apologies....here have some rep

cv

 

[trendie]

hi gtatix,

you are essentially asking for more politely what HeiPaDeg demanded boorishly.

anyway, it seems a good idea, a one-stop-shop of trading systems.
we all have them, they tend to be a mish-mash of hyperlinks to sites we visited years ago to downloaded PDFs we havent read for months, etc.

you seem to want a brain-dump of our "My Documents" folders.

as a start, I would recommend you read:

Captain Currencys 3-Ducks thread,
nkrugers/brutusdogs DAX thread (search for "puppies")
wasps journal on 12-HMA which evolved into Sup/Res
trader_dantes thread on Pin-bars

there are others, such as an "Inside-Bar" method. (cant remember author)

they will give you an insight a broad range of simple-MAs, Stochastics, chart-patterns, etc.

please have a read of the HeiPaDeg thread, and learn how NOT to ask for help.
good luck.

 

[gtatix]

hi gtatix,

anyway, it seems a good idea, a one-stop-shop of trading systems.
we all have them, they tend to be a mish-mash of hyperlinks to sites we visited years ago to downloaded PDFs we havent read for months, etc.

you seem to want a brain-dump of our "My Documents" folders.

as a start, I would recommend you read:

Captain Currencys 3-Ducks thread,
nkrugers/brutusdogs DAX thread (search for "puppies")
wasps journal on 12-HMA which evolved into Sup/Res
trader_dantes thread on Pin-bars

there are others, such as an "Inside-Bar" method. (cant remember author)

they will give you an insight a broad range of simple-MAs, Stochastics, chart-patterns, etc.

please have a read of the HeiPaDeg thread, and learn how NOT to ask for help.
good luck.

Thanks for the input. The "brain-dump" statement is likely the best way of putting what I was looking for. It isn't like I have no ideas of my own. It isn't like I have no way of finding methods of trading. I would offer that it's not that I would not be happy if someone were to write: "This works for me, I made $60,000,000 last year, here's all the documentation and software you need, go to town." But I really don't expect that would happen. And judging by what has been said amongst - not only this forum but - many areas of research I have delved into, there is no such system anyway. Claims that a "GANN SYSTEM" did it for Gann are just that - claims. He likely had more than just a "system" per se. I like the idea of viewing concepts and perhaps sharing ideas. I would be interested in offering ideas that may or may not have been thought of before and having people add-to or nix those ideas. I chose to start by asking before offering - although I did put out some information I hoped others maybe knew more about - or could find interesting - WITH NO RESPONSE AS YET. The idea was to get methods/systems out front. Again I am sure that there are people that have systems that work - and they would rather not offer them. I don't blame them - but they are not likely the kind of individual that attacks someone for asking - for what its worth.
I thought about this big time waster - I spent about 4 hours arguing and defending my position which was truly stupid and useless - a little yesterday and felt that I could offer some insight into what had been said about what I had posted.
I would surmise that there are perhaps three mindsets that visit this forum. There are those who like to socialize about what they enjoy doing - namely trading. There are those who want to make money but haven't found a working model or a cash-cow. There are those who want to work on something or gain insight into their quest.
The first group mentioned are either helpers or medlers or socialites. The second group could be subdivided into helpless individuals looking for the holy grail with no concept as to how to get information other than to ask for the final draft - the one page how to manual. I wouldn't turn down the big fish if he/she were to bite ------ if there were such a creature amongst us and I doubt any honest person would say otherwise. There are those who are stuck or struggling or confused or wishing more insight; who have made an effort - or who are making an effort - but who want help from those whom they KNOW, know more than they do. These people would make up the other - larger - fraction of the - above - second main group. The last main group would be - perhaps the largest. People who have ideas that may work - but not all the time or as rapidly as desired. They may want to see if there are better ideas or ammendments to methodologies they currently use. Even these people - of whom I would say I am one - would be lying if they said they wouldn't climb under the big fishes wing - do fish have wings? - and leap ahead if that holy grail were dropped in their lap. Remember the movie "Wall Street?" I bet there are a lot of 'Buds" here. Fantasy aside. I have concluded that although I wasn't consciously asking for a free ride. Yes, I would take it if it were given to me. I typed and stated what was on my mind at the time. I was asking for systems - more with the conscious expectation of getting some good ideas than an expectation of getting some genius trader giving me his wallet. You know that there are allegedly ways to watch the apparent winners trade. Watch live at a webinar. I am pretty convinced that amongst the best systems would be one's I have on paper by Dr. J Katz. I would surmise that N-Train is awesome software I WILL likely buy - soon. I think that there is a lot of potential for myself - and other new/newer traders - in reading more about neural networks and genetic algorithms amongst new AI offerings. I would offer that an artificial intelligence training software of reactions to the top 10 or 20 fundamental announcements as far back as possible; and from around the world, would be an excellent start for devising a type of AI predictor system. I would surmise that there are - perhaps a couple of - BIG DADDYS within this forum - but that they don't partake in discourse much - if at all. They may get a kick out of reading stuff like this :cheesy:
I look forward to proactive responses to my future postings.

 

[rog1111]

My thoughts on this thread.

As a beginner, there is usually very little appreciation of a) how difficult it is to devise a trading method that "works", and b) how difficult it is to stick to it (and b) is even harder if its someone elses creation, especially when things are not going so well).

I'm not a discretionary trader, so will restrict my comments to the systematic approach. If you are trading mechanically, there are quite a few ways to produce a positive result, but very few ways to produce a positive result in a manner that would be acceptable if you had to trade it, or if you were trading with investors money. For example, you have a system that has produced 5000 DAX points over the last 2 years, hey, looks like a good result ? But in that time you had a max drawdown of 3000 pts over 9 months. Do you think that you could have survived that drawdown in order to get to your 5000 pt profit ?

Respectfully, you really do have to do your own work. As one poster suggested, start by reading a book on systems. Then I'd suggest that you:

a) Use this information as a base from which you can allow your own intuitive mind to come up with your own variations.
b)Buy some backtesting kit in order to test your variations.
c) Do all the maths in detail, yourself. How much do you have in your pot, how much do you need to make per annum ? How much drawdown can you withstand, etc etc

Asking people for systems may well get some responses on this forum, but how will you know all the ins and outs ? Also, being given just an entry system is really not enough in itself without quite a lot of additional information about exits, sizing etc.

Sorry if this sounds discouraging to you, but a decent system that really works in the real world in an acceptable fashion is very rare (and very valuable).

Good luck, and safe trading
rog1111

 

[gtatix]

My thoughts on this thread.

As a beginner, there is usually very little appreciation of a) how difficult it is to devise a trading method that "works", and b) how difficult it is to stick to it (and b) is even harder if its someone elses creation, especially when things are not going so well).

I'm not a discretionary trader, so will restrict my comments to the systematic approach. If you are trading mechanically, there are quite a few ways to produce a positive result, but very few ways to produce a positive result in a manner that would be acceptable if you had to trade it, or if you were trading with investors money. For example, you have a system that has produced 5000 DAX points over the last 2 years, hey, looks like a good result ? But in that time you had a max drawdown of 3000 pts over 9 months. Do you think that you could have survived that drawdown in order to get to your 5000 pt profit ?

Respectfully, you really do have to do your own work. As one poster suggested, start by reading a book on systems. Then I'd suggest that you:

a) Use this information as a base from which you can allow your own intuitive mind to come up with your own variations.
b)Buy some backtesting kit in order to test your variations.
c) Do all the maths in detail, yourself. How much do you have in your pot, how much do you need to make per annum ? How much drawdown can you withstand, etc etc

Asking people for systems may well get some responses on this forum, but how will you know all the ins and outs ? Also, being given just an entry system is really not enough in itself without quite a lot of additional information about exits, sizing etc.

Sorry if this sounds discouraging to you, but a decent system that really works in the real world in an acceptable fashion is very rare (and very valuable).

Good luck, and safe trading
rog1111

Thanks, I am in no way discouraged. I appreciate your input and fully respect that it is not as simple as applying a few how-tos to a chart. You can read my further thoughts if you find it of interest to do so amongst previous responses within this thread. Thanks again.

 

[Pat494]

A pity you aren't a whizzo programmer in visual basic or C++ because there is a good program out there that has been written and is really waiting for a skilful programmer to write some better bots into.
The packaged bots that come with it are OK but could really be improved by someone with a bit of time and skill. Even my feeble efforts have made a slight improvement.
Maybe this is what you are looking for ? PM me if interested

 

[gtatix]

A pity you aren't a whizzo programmer in visual basic or C++ because there is a good program out there that has been written and is really waiting for a skilful programmer to write some better bots into.
The packaged bots that come with it are OK but could really be improved by someone with a bit of time and skill. Even my feeble efforts have made a slight improvement.
Maybe this is what you are looking for ? PM me if interested

The programming part is what is likely holding me back the most at this time. I am completely ignorant when it comes to programming. I have no doubts that I could learn what would be needed ---- if I knew what were needed. In 1982 I jumped into computer programming before there was any hint of the entire civilized world becoming PC dependent. I quit college after about 3 months when they started to tell us to put all of this information - six hours of typing - into this COBAL program so we can get this nice neat printout. Nothing accomplished other than a neat printout. I was gone. Leaving the potential knowledge of Fortran and others in the past. Now? What can I say? I seem to need this info now. I see - just recently - that I want to get involved with Artificial Intelligence and chart predictions but have NO CLUE what to look for to do it. Boltzmann, N-Train, Trade$tation, and further reading about genetic algorithms SEEM to be the direction to head in. If I were directed as to where to start I could perhaps shave 5 years of wasted searching time from my endeavours. I am interested in what it is you are referring to - unless you feel I would need to do some reading/training on C++ and basic - of which I have ONLY HEARD and never delved into; in which case I would be appreciative of any direction you can offer as to where to read the essentials on these languages.
:idea:
Have you heard of Boltzmann machines by the way? I put up a post with a link to some info if you are interested.

 

[rog1111]

gtatix,

If you have the time, inclination, a logical mind, and if you are thinking mostly of mechanical systems, I think that it would be highly worthwhile for you to learn to program. A lot of people have little trouble coming up with some great creative ideas, but then, if reliant on someone else, testing becomes a problem, and of course, only one in many ideas turns out to be any good. So, if you can do your own testing then thats a pretty good start.

You could go down the Tradestation route, although I have no idea what the deal is with them nowadays. Or, you could start with one of the easier languages eg VB, which should suffice for your purposes.

My personal take on this is that any successful mechanical system should be linked to a persistent market inefficiency. If you choose to keep this in mind, then I think you'll find that you'll save yourself a huge amount of time and effort wandering off down dead-end alleys !

Good luck
rog1111